Champions League 2014-15

[Donut]

The Premier League attracts big audiences because by and large its exciting. Frenetic tempo, commitment, direct styles of play, decently matched teams. Its probably the lack technical quality, and the prominence of passion, heart, desire, all that typically English "stuff" that appeals to the big audience. Its not sold on the basis that its the technically best league, hence you see our clubs failing at the top level in Europe.

 

People talk about the championship being an exciting league. But no one in their right mind would call it a good league, its rubbish. Its the same distinction at the Premier League/Champions League level. A big tv deal is there because it draws a big worldwide tv audience for its entertainment, not to marvel at its technical brilliance.

 

With regards to tonight, Chelsea are suffering from having a small squad and rotating their squad less than others. Ive felt for a few weeks their physical levels have been off, and have overly relied on Costa, Fabregas, Matic and Courtois. They were the second best team in France, and with all the antics around Ibrahimovic today, im not disappointed Chelsea are out. And typical Mourinho interview afterwards, turning a blind eye to his players and talking about PSG seeing out the last 5 mins. Get over it you loser, its like an inferiority complex.

[Dan]

IMO yes by a long long way.  'Propaganda' as you keep calling it does not make people around the world buy in to the product week after week year after year you know.  

 

It has big problems for sure but taking into the account the ferociously competitive nature of the league from top to bottom, the fast-paced style of play, the packed stadiums, very little crowd trouble, good representation of women, children and minorities in the stands all adds up as a package which makes it what it is.  

 

The Bundesliga is the only one that gets close for me but that is ruined by Bayern Munich winning the league pretty much every.  single.  year.  

 

The Premier League is extremely well marketed. I will give it that much. The clubs over here have taken advantage of Asia & USA in a way I bet not many thought they would be able to.

 

I think it's all a bit of a cycle where the entertainment creates the hype, the hype creates money from all over the world, which is spent to create more hype and so on. I don't want to go as far as saying it's a rubbish league as it clearly isn't, but I really don't see the massive fuss and this is as someone who supports a club who's aspirations are to be in that league. Like I say, maybe I'm just in the minority, but I don't see what makes it so special. I haven't seen anything this league can offer that can't be offered in Spain, Germany, France or Italy (and I'm not saying the latter two are better leagues than the Premier League).

 

Ferociously competitive? Any more so than in Spain? I haven't seen a team over here win 20 games in a row (in all comps) and then not even be top of the table by March.

 

Packed stadiums I will give you. The attendances are good - but could be better and be of an even wider demographic like Germany is. They have the numbers AND the noise, and everyone's happy.

 

The Bundesliga would be a fantastic league if it wasn't so one sided. Bayern being as good as they are absolutely spoils that league but I still maintain that they'd be just as dominant in England too, they are that good.

[AKCJ]

Mourinho teams have always surrounded the refs.

 

It's one of the most pleasing (granted there aren't many) things about our PL stint.

 

We've never put the referee under any pressure and I don't think we're commended for it as much as we should be.

 

 

 

I hope they get another massive fine so that Mourinho can whinge about it being another conspiracy. 

[Donut]

Its comical that Mourinho bleats about an anti Chelsea conspiracy, and yet Diego Costa could probably murder an opposition player and still stay on the pitch! seriously does he play the game by different rules?

[Dan]

Diego Costa's got an edge to him which always leads to entertainment. How the bloke gets so few red cards I will never know. He's a master of it.

 

Mourinho is a giant hypocrite. I can't believe it even creates discussion. It's so obvious what he's doing it's unreal. Getting really, really bored of him now. Seen it all before, heard it all before. He will never lift the Champions League at Chelsea.

[AKCJ]

Diego Costa's got an edge to him which always leads to entertainment. How the bloke gets so few red cards I will never know. He's a master of it.

 

Mourinho is a giant hypocrite. I can't believe it even creates discussion. It's so obvious what he's doing it's unreal. Getting really, really bored of him now. Seen it all before, heard it all before. He will never lift the Champions League at Chelsea.

 

 

Yep, up until this season I didn't mind Mourinho. Always thought that he had the talent and didn't need to rely on being a **** week in week out to get the job done.

 

Have to say that Pellegrini is the most likeable managers from the big clubs. Mourinho is a knob and i'm fed up of him and Chelsea. Jamie Carragher was right at half time when he said "We all like to win but they take it to another level" and "They'll always be respected but never loved".

 

One player i'm particularly dissapointed with is Nemanja Matic. I thought he was someone who liked to let his football do the talking, but he's been clearly coached to surround the referee and give the opposition absolutely no chance.

 

Poor form from England's best chance.

[ScouseFox]

Have to say that Pellegrini is the most likeable managers from the big clubs.

and the worst. coincidence?

also love Diego Costa. can't work out why people want him to have been sent off tonight on anything other than past reputation. one strikers challenge that he was rightly booked for and a few scuffles with the defenders he was trying to get the better of. nothing even close to warranting a red card unless I missed anything on my stream. haters gon hate tho.

[Donut]

To be honest, i never really hated Man Utd at any point. I cant explain exactly why, probably a combination of the fact they have a rich football pedigree throughout several decades, a continuing commitment to developing English youth talent, their direct entertaining football under Ferguson, several things.

 

But Chelsea are insufferable. Represented by numerous dickhead players in recent history, this outfit masquerading as a "massive" club of English football have no history at all, and id guess 80% or more of modern day Chelsea fans never knew pre Abramovic money, or Ken Bates buying the club for a quid.

 

You have to have a respect for Mourinho, but he produces teams full of grinders that earn respect, rather than admiration. The constant media bleating, mixed with an unwillingness to change the attitudes of his players in the face of his win at all costs, and no matter the costs mentality, makes them a stain on English football. When they won the champions league (without Mourinho, yes), they were the worst possible European champions you could wish to see.

[Dan]

Yep, up until this season I didn't mind Mourinho. Always thought that he had the talent and didn't need to rely on being a **** week in week out to get the job done.

 

Have to say that Pellegrini is the most likeable managers from the big clubs. Mourinho is a knob and i'm fed up of him and Chelsea. Jamie Carragher was right at half time when he said "We all like to win but they take it to another level" and "They'll always be respected but never loved".

 

One player i'm particularly dissapointed with is Nemanja Matic. I thought he was someone who liked to let his football do the talking, but he's been clearly coached to surround the referee and give the opposition absolutely no chance.

 

Poor form from England's best chance.

 

Mourinho's always been a bit of an arse when it comes to referees. It genuinely amazes me how few see through the bloke and his embarrassing hyperbole.

 

Not saying he's a poor manager as he's obviously excellent, but there's better out there. Diego Simeone for example.

 

Pellegrini is opposite to Mourinho. I think he's a decent manager, but not great, and that Man City could do a lot better with their financial clout - but a respectable character.

 

Here's a horrendously laughable stat - should Man City & Arsenal exit as expected that means the Premier League has had one quarter finalist in the last three years.

[Donut]

Pellegrini is a good manager, but not really fitting of modern day Man City status. Its clear Sheikh Mansoor wants the club to have a proper go at the Champions League. I dont feel hes up to that level. They should be the ones to be looking at the Simeone's, the Guardiola's in a bid to reach that level.

 

Pellegrini is the sort of manager who will get a side playing nice football, pleasing on the eye and the sort of manager who will run a harmonious camp, but probably at a club without the expectation to be challenging with the very best. Would be a good fit for a club like Porto etc.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Not saying he's a poor manager as he's obviously excellent, but there's better out there. Diego Simeone for example.

 

For all your raving about decent and likeable characters not soiling the game you're bigging up that monumental turd.

[C-man]

"Our" The representatives of our country, it's not complicated.

No I don't support them when they play Swansea, Forest or Cardiff. I don't support Swansea, Forest or Cardiff either. Do you support PSG when they play Lens ?

Sorry we can't be talking about the same Chelsea. The Russian-owned, Portuguese-managed side with the almost exclusively non-English playing staff and sh1thouse fans? Thank fvck they don't represent me.

I don't pretend to like PSG either so I had absolutely zero preference about who went through last night. I just can't understand why Leicester fans would actively hope that Chelsea, Arsenal et al are successful because they feel represented by them. It's weird.

[C-man]

The ideas that the Premier League is the most 'watchable' and/or 'exciting' are inherently biased because the majority of people making those statements live in the UK.

It's the most 'watchable' because people know the players. They see them on TV every Saturday and Sunday and so can relate to them. The audience feels comfortable on making assertions or forming opinions on the PL teams and players because they are exposed to them so much.

That exposure is the same reason why people think it's the most exciting league. You see a 4-3 in the PL and the commentators claim it's the only league in the world that gives you that excitement. Except that there's a 4-5 in Germany, a 4-4 in Italy and most probably a 7-7 in the Championship on the same weekend.

It's a pointless argument.

What you can say though is that the PL club continue to do themselves a disservice in buying rubbish like Mangala and Fernando for £70m when they could probably develop some pretty good talent for a fraction of the price. It's that continual and immediate flight to 'quality' that is holding back the League's chances in Europe and more importantly the development of the English national team.

It'll only get worse with the next TV deal as more jokers arrive for £50m.

[Tincy]

Justice was served last night. Well done PSG

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

The Premier League is tougher than years ago? No chance and our best sides performance in Europe proved it. It's a mediocre league which we have made a right pigs ear of.

[Finnegan]

Chelsea, representing England? Owned by a Russian oligarch, team full of Brazilian and Spanish footballer, managed by a Portuguese?

I'd have gotten that sentiment in the years of Clough, Busby, Shanks, whoever, when British teams were British teams.

These days they're very much global brands.

Obviously Webbo is perfectly welcome to his view, I'm not having a go, but I do find it a bit strange.

[Guest Col city fan]

Heard a decent point made this am on the radio. The gulf between the best and worst sides in say Spain and Italy are even wider than they are in the Premiership.

Whereas Real Madrid, Barce, Juve etc can afford to drop certain players for games to Elche, Sassuolo and the such like, it's not as easy for the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc to do this. Any of the bigger Prem sides know that even games against West Brom, Stoke, Swansea (to name but three) will actually be tough games. They will know they have to be on their mettle to come away from the Hawthorns, for example, with a result.

I do think there may be something in this. I think the Prem is the most competitive of all the bigger European leagues in terms of the toughness of games right across the division. And it's possible that this is a telling factor when it comes to the latter stages of the European competitions. It could well be, for example, that Celtic did so well in the UEFA cup many years ago, not only because they were managed by MON, but also because week - in, week - out, they could pretty much win their domestic fixtures at a canter.

Just a thought.

[Footballwipe]

I'm not having the argument about the Premier League hindering teams in the UCL, before the last couple of years English teams were represented in the UCL final in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012. English teams can do it, but the standard has gone up in the wider Europe for definite.

 

It's ridiculous that these teams haven't improved. Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal all rake it in via revenue and TV money and yet they're all receding in Europe. At the rate we're going we will be like the Italian league. If these teams keep pondering in Europe, underestimating sides and under-performing on a regular basis then our fourth place UCL position will be taken away to someone else.

 

Not only will that be an issue for the already competitive top four (what a time to be alive when fourth place is a prize) but I'm not sure Sky, who have sunk billions into the new TV deal will be so keen because they can't market the final weeks of the season as the "top 4" battle just like they're doing at the moment.

 

Italy are resurgent with five of the last 16 in the Europa League, a league which is strengthening and strengthening after a lull, plus I assume those teams appreciate the prize of winning the UEL this season and beyond.

 

We're (likely) not going to have a representative in the QF and I know it's very "modern football" but you lose the coefficient and it's not easy to get back.

[C-man]

Heard a decent point made this am on the radio. The gulf between the best and worst sides in say Spain and Italy are even wider than they are in the Premiership.

Whereas Real Madrid, Barce, Juve etc can afford to drop certain players for games to Elche, Sassuolo and the such like, it's not as easy for the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc to do this. Any of the bigger Prem sides know that even games against West Brom, Stoke, Swansea (to name but three) will actually be tough games. They will know they have to be on their mettle to come away from the Hawthorns, for example, with a result.

I do think there may be something in this. I think the Prem is the most competitive of all the bigger European leagues in terms of the toughness of games right across the division. And it's possible that this is a telling factor when it comes to the latter stages of the European competitions. It could well be, for example, that Celtic did so well in the UEFA cup many years ago, not only because they were managed by MON, but also because week - in, week - out, they could pretty much win their domestic fixtures at a canter.

Just a thought.

Or you could equally argue that leagues such as the Bundesliga have become so uncompetitive for teams like Bayern that they have no real, stern tests in their domestic game which leaves them underprepared when it comes to the biggest CL games.

If your theory is true then the PL teams should have no issues with preparedness.

Footballwipe bang on again IMO.

[EnderbyFox]

[Guest Col city fan]

I'm not having the argument about the Premier League hindering teams in the UCL, before the last couple of years English teams were represented in the UCL final in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012. English teams can do it, but the standard has gone up in the wider Europe for definite.

It's ridiculous that these teams haven't improved. Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal all rake it in via revenue and TV money and yet they're all receding in Europe. At the rate we're going we will be like the Italian league. If these teams keep pondering in Europe, underestimating sides and under-performing on a regular basis then our fourth place UCL position will be taken away to someone else.

Not only will that be an issue for the already competitive top four (what a time to be alive when fourth place is a prize) but I'm not sure Sky, who have sunk billions into the new TV deal will be so keen because they can't market the final weeks of the season as the "top 4" battle just like they're doing at the moment.

Italy are resurgent with five of the last 16 in the Europa League, a league which is strengthening and strengthening after a lull, plus I assume those teams appreciate the prize of winning the UEL this season and beyond.

We're (likely) not going to have a representative in the QF and I know it's very "modern football" but you lose the coefficient and it's not easy to get back.

I also just don't accept that the top English sides are inferior to the top European teams. Last night was a great example. Chelsea, at home, with a team that player for player could more than match Paris. Bookies favourites, with a manager who has an exemplary record in Europe and who I consider superior to Lauren Blanc...AND against ten men....

The odds were on a Chelsea win.. I doubt many thought Paris would be victorious after the daft dismissal of Ibra.

Yet...Chelsea went on to lose.

Either that was simply 'one of those nights'? And fair play, it might have been..OR something else may have been a factor.

I thought Chelsea looked tired, jaded and pretty much not at the races.

Paris have had a topsy turvy season in Ligue1. Chelsea have been generally very good in the Prem.

Bizarre and not just based on Paris being 'The better team' surely?

[filbertway]

If you stuck Real and Barca in the prem I'd imagine those 2 would be way ahead of the other teams in the league. 

 

Glad PSG won last night, as a rule I generally back the English teams when watching European games, but Chelsea were utter scum bags last night, I imagine 95% of neutrals watching that game were delighten when Silva's header went in.

 

As an aside, I think apes are mag Someone said, "would you support Chelsea if they played Swansea in the FA Cup final?". I remember watching us v Cardiff in the play offs in a pub in Sheffield and the whole pub was behind us, simply for the fact we were the English team. Not really relevant, I just enjoyed having a whole pub supporting Leicester even though I was nowhere near Leicester ha.

[kingcarr21]

For me it was clear to see that chelsea players thought the job was done. Chelsea were so pedestrian at times it was embarrassing. It looked to me like Chelsea players at halftime thought 'yea we will be going through now they're down to 10 men.' Players were even walking around in the 2nd half. Screamed of arrogance. At the start of the game i wanted Chelsea to win as they are the english team (with barely any english players but still an english team) but as the game wore on i really wanted PSG to score and make Chelsea buck there ideas up. In the end Chelsea got exactly what they deserved.

[Footballwipe]

I also just don't accept that the top English sides are inferior to the top European teams. Last night was a great example. Chelsea, at home, with a team that player for player could more than match Paris. Bookies favourites, with a manager who has an exemplary record in Europe and who I consider superior to Lauren Blanc...AND against ten men....

The odds were on a Chelsea win.. I doubt many thought Paris would be victorious after the daft dismissal of Ibra.

Yet...Chelsea went on to lose.

Either that was simply 'one of those nights'? And fair play, it might have been..OR something else may have been a factor.

I thought Chelsea looked tired, jaded and pretty much not at the races.

Paris have had a topsy turvy season in Ligue1. Chelsea have been generally very good in the Prem.

Bizarre and not just based on Paris being 'The better team' surely?

 

Really? I'd say they were vastly inferior to the top European teams. Aside from Chelsea's flukey CL win in 2012 English teams have been pretty much wiped out recently.

 

Atletico Madrid took Chelsea apart last season, and Chelsea were, as you say, not at the races this season. This is a Chelsea who had whole week to prepare for the fixture.

Real Madrid dismantled Liverpool this season

Manchester City have been no match for Barcelona in the last two years

Arsenal are picked apart on a regular basis by any team that can stop their attack.

 

Granted, who else thought that Paris would go through after Ibra went but they have a superbly strong squad and bought Lavezzi off the bench. They never let Chelsea get away and remember they managed to recover from being behind twice to go through. A pretty sterling effort all round I'd say.

 

Real Madrid proved before they finally got going under Mourinho that a top squad doesn't guarantee success, yet last night JM, once again, didn't seem to gee his team up, underestimating the opponents and the quality they have.

 

One thing seems to becoming clear that there will be no dynasty in the top competitions, not for a while yet. We all though Barcelona would get going and that almost happened. They were so dominant and their peak of 2009-2011 was astonishing, but didn't yield consecutive titles.

 

We then all thought Bayern, who ripped Barcelona to shreds, would take the mantle after winning in 2013. The King is dead, long live the king. Then Pep came in, made Bayern better and an actual dynasty was beginning surely?

 

Step forward Real Madrid and Ancelotti. Absolutely destroying Bayern in last season's semi-final. It truly shows that anyone can beat anyone in the top echelons of European football. Would you expect Bayern to rip Barcelona open like that again, or Real to do that to Bayern? Unlikely.

 

Now Real might buck their ideas up and go on to create a dynasty, but you wouldn't bet on it based on their recent performances. Last season they were a team, now they seem like individuals.

 

But I wouldn't class any English team in that league. I wouldn't trust Manchester City as far as I could throw them, nor Arsenal, and Chelsea, who you'd say are closest, were outclassed and outfought in last season's semi-final and yet again in the second round this time.

 

Personally for me English teams are a way off the top eight in Europe, and they've got a long way to go before getting anywhere close yet.

[Guest MattP]

I also just don't accept that the top English sides are inferior to the top European teams. Last night was a great example. Chelsea, at home, with a team that player for player could more than match Paris. Bookies favourites, with a manager who has an exemplary record in Europe and who I consider superior to Lauren Blanc...AND against ten men....

The odds were on a Chelsea win.. I doubt many thought Paris would be victorious after the daft dismissal of Ibra.

Yet...Chelsea went on to lose.

Either that was simply 'one of those nights'? And fair play, it might have been..OR something else may have been a factor.

I thought Chelsea looked tired, jaded and pretty much not at the races.

Paris have had a topsy turvy season in Ligue1. Chelsea have been generally very good in the Prem.

Bizarre and not just based on Paris being 'The better team' surely?

 

Come on Col - they are miles behind. Chelsea are still the best we have got but as Atleti showed last year they are a long way behind the top sides - I also think what makes a good player in the Premiership doesn't sometimes adapt for Europe, same with players playing for England. Maybe in a similar way to the cricket, we play a far more direct old fashioned style that comes up short when playing against other nations who seem to have developed the game more.

 

Liverpool finished 2nd last season and could still finish 3rd in the PL this season and they have gone out of Europe this season to Basle and Besiktas in two different tournaments. That's pathetic really. Spurs are supposdly top 4 challengers and get knocked out the Europa any time they come up a half decent team from somewhere like Italy.

 

The money is also almost starting to become a burden now - Man City have to fork out 100million for absolute shite like Mangala and Fernandinho - Man Utd have to pay 60million for a reserve from a top Spanish side, Or 40million for a Yaya Toure or Fabregas who could never really crack it at Barca and hold down a place. The top sides can then reinvest this cash in top talent from South America and bring in far better techincal and cultured players for even less money than they received for worse.