The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 I dunno, the 'handballs' were right in front of us and my initial tboughts were Morgans was a penalty and Simpsons wasn't. My mates all thought the same til we spoke to my mates dad who was at home at HT and was told Sky were saying it hit Morgans head and Dannys arm. Morgans happened so quickly that in my drunken state I did think it was a penalty. I'm not really in favour of video replays either purely because it's a question of where do you draw the line? Do you have them to see if it's a corner or goal kick? In Stoke/Delaps case a few years ago would you use them to see who's throw in it is? I'd hate the game to become like Rugby, which is boring for a reason (too many stoppages)
Monsell1976 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Can understand cell phones from the pub or in the car but midway through the match are you really going to be posting stuff on Foxestalk?Those that are in the ground would be lucky to get a signal, to be able to post anything.Me and my kids are on 3 different networks and none work in the ground.
DB11 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 I dunno, the 'handballs' were right in front of us and my initial tboughts were Morgans was a penalty and Simpsons wasn't. My mates all thought the same til we spoke to my mates dad who was at home at HT and was told Sky were saying it hit Morgans head and Dannys arm. Morgans happened so quickly that in my drunken state I did think it was a penalty. I'm not really in favour of video replays either purely because it's a question of where do you draw the line? ) The key thing there being you were drunk so that sort of invalidates what you said about thinking it was a penalty as you wouldn't have seen it properly. The referee (hopefully) wasn't drunk
Mike Oxlong Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Refs , pundits, journo's just don't understand the laws of the game. Deliberate handball means exactly that i.e intentional, purposeful,in order to achieve a desired outcome. So (a) does the hand/arm move towards the ball (in a manner inconsistent with the normal motion of the defender) (b) if the answer to (a) is negative - is the hand/arm of the defender which a ball strikes held in a way that is inconsistent with the body position of that player? (can reasonably infer intention to block with hand/arm) If the answer to a and b is negative then it's not a penalty. Applied to the Danny Simpson case, had the ref asked himself these questions he would not have given a spot kick.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 The key thing there being you were drunk so that sort of invalidates what you said about thinking it was a penalty as you wouldn't have seen it properly. The referee (hopefully) wasn't drunk My point being though it happened so fast. I wonder how many of us there yesterday could've categorically said (before Morgans gestures) that it hit him on the head? He's sliding in, both arms are up by his head which create a larger area to be hit by the ball than his face. Not trying to stick up for the ref, it's just a bloody hard job as you well know. I think Pearson came across diplomatically really well when asked yesterday.
Manwell Pablo Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 My point being though it happened so fast. I wonder how many of us there yesterday could've categorically said (before Morgans gestures) that it hit him on the head? He's sliding in, both arms are up by his head which create a larger area to be hit by the ball than his face. Not trying to stick up for the ref, it's just a bloody hard job as you well know. I think Pearson came across diplomatically really well when asked yesterday. It really didn't happen so quickly that it wasn't quite blatantly kicked against his head. As has been said you'd had a drink and were much further away, I can appreciate it probably isn't as easy a decision to make as some are making out but he's a level 1 ref reffing in the prem stood no more than 8-10 yards away, it's a horrendous error. He had one arm in the air the other was clearly on the dec.
DB11 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 My point being though it happened so fast. I wonder how many of us there yesterday could've categorically said (before Morgans gestures) that it hit him on the head? He's sliding in, both arms are up by his head which create a larger area to be hit by the ball than his face. Not trying to stick up for the ref, it's just a bloody hard job as you well know. I think Pearson came across diplomatically really well when asked yesterday. I know it's hard, but a common saying / belief within refereeing circles is "if you never give a penalty for handball, you'll be correct 99% of the time" with the reasoning being that players simply don't deliberately handle the ball inside the penalty area because the consequences far outweigh leaving the ball to go past you.Which makes one wonder why Mike Jones chose to give a penalty. Were external factors play a part (I don't mean match fixing I don't believe any British referee would) but atmosphere, in front of the Kop, wanting to liven the game up? Possibly. It happens. I've known referees where if a game is a bit boring or not much has happened a 50/50 decision will be given in favour of the attacking team just because referees are human too and no one wants to be boring.
Thracian Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Exactly. Referees are supposed to give what they see. They patently can't "see" what doesn't happen and if they don't see then they shouldn't pretend that they did and the game should carry on. "Didn't see it" is not a comfortable option but it's an honest one. Supposedly "seeing" what demonstrably didn't happen can't be honest.
shade Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Exactly. Referees are supposed to give what they see. They patently can't "see" what doesn't happen and if they don't see then they shouldn't pretend that they did and the game should carry on. "Didn't see it" is not a comfortable option but it's an honest one. Supposedly "seeing" what demonstrably didn't happen can't be honest. he obviously thought he saw the ball hit Morgan's arm though, he must have or we have to accuse him of cheating. have you seen that Honda advert where the car drives over the bollards, cleverly positioned to trick you into seeing something that isn't? I'm not really sticking up for him, just saying either he "saw" the ball hit Morgan's arm or he's a cheat. if it was the first one then we can't blame him, we can just demand video assistance.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 It really didn't happen so quickly that it wasn't quite blatantly kicked against his head. As has been said you'd had a drink and were much further away, I can appreciate it probably isn't as easy a decision to make as some are making out but he's a level 1 ref reffing in the prem stood no more than 8-10 yards away, it's a horrendous error. He had one arm in the air the other was clearly on the dec. I know it's hard, but a common saying / belief within refereeing circles is "if you never give a penalty for handball, you'll be correct 99% of the time" with the reasoning being that players simply don't deliberately handle the ball inside the penalty area because the consequences far outweigh leaving the ball to go past you. Which makes one wonder why Mike Jones chose to give a penalty. Were external factors play a part (I don't mean match fixing I don't believe any British referee would) but atmosphere, in front of the Kop, wanting to liven the game up? Possibly. It happens. I've known referees where if a game is a bit boring or not much has happened a 50/50 decision will be given in favour of the attacking team just because referees are human too and no one wants to be boring. It'd be much better all round if Ref's came out after the game and accepted that they'd made an error. Their unaccountability for their actions is infuriating for fans and players alike. I really dislike the majority's arrogance and I'm talking at PL level all the way to Sunday League. I'm probably one of the fairest players you'll play against or ref, (maybe I'm boring but I don't claim for a throw that's not ours, and openly admit that it came off my foot if that's what's happened) I got deliberately elbowed in the chops once by a player and when I complained to the ref he told me basically to 'go away and stop talking to him'. Even later on in the same game after the same player had broken one of our lads noses the ref still wouldn't have it. It was only a week later when he reffed another of their games and they were laughing at him for missing the elbows the previous week that he apologised to me when he saw me next. Yet I've had a ref before when I claimed for a throw in which was ours give it to our side as, 'I seemed a decent and honest player' My point being surely there must be players in the PL who refs know have a reputation for being honest and sometimes maybe go on what the player says? Morgan is a relative newcomer to the PL but doesn't strike me as dishonest in any way, but maybe he's not well known enough to have a relationship with any ref.
Manwell Pablo Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 It'd be much better all round if Ref's came out after the game and accepted that they'd made an error. Their unaccountability for their actions is infuriating for fans and players alike. I really dislike the majority's arrogance and I'm talking at PL level all the way to Sunday League. I'm probably one of the fairest players you'll play against or ref, (maybe I'm boring but I don't claim for a throw that's not ours, and openly admit that it came off my foot if that's what's happened) I got deliberately elbowed in the chops once by a player and when I complained to the ref he told me basically to 'go away and stop talking to him'. Even later on in the same game after the same player had broken one of our lads noses the ref still wouldn't have it. It was only a week later when he reffed another of their games and they were laughing at him for missing the elbows the previous week that he apologised to me when he saw me next. Yet I've had a ref before when I claimed for a throw in which was ours give it to our side as, 'I seemed a decent and honest player' My point being surely there must be players in the PL who refs know have a reputation for being honest and sometimes maybe go on what the player says? Morgan is a relative newcomer to the PL but doesn't strike me as dishonest in any way, but maybe he's not well known enough to have a relationship with any ref. I heavily, heavily doubt that, their professionals at the end of the day all of whom receive bonus's for winning and good performance, some might not complain as much as others if they know their in the wrong but you'll certainly never see one openly admitting the ball came off them or anything like that. Not sure I'd want to see that either tbh.
Manwell Pablo Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 I know it's hard, but a common saying / belief within refereeing circles is "if you never give a penalty for handball, you'll be correct 99% of the time" with the reasoning being that players simply don't deliberately handle the ball inside the penalty area because the consequences far outweigh leaving the ball to go past you. Which makes one wonder why Mike Jones chose to give a penalty. Were external factors play a part (I don't mean match fixing I don't believe any British referee would) but atmosphere, in front of the Kop, wanting to liven the game up? Possibly. It happens. I've known referees where if a game is a bit boring or not much has happened a 50/50 decision will be given in favour of the attacking team just because referees are human too and no one wants to be boring. Haha, funny you should say that about 3 weeks ago when we were playing on a Sunday someone punched a ball over the top of the bar when it was going in, it made the hand of god look inconspicuous . 3 minutes into the game 1-0 down, down to 10 men , madness.
The Blue Moon Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Those that are in the ground would be lucky to get a signal, to be able to post anything. Me and my kids are on 3 different networks and none work in the ground. It just goes to show that a lot of these people on FoxesTalk aren't the real fans who go week in week out, just armchair experts.
Daz93 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Even more annoying to see that both Smalling and Vertonghen got away with obvious hand balls within the box on the same day. Terrible refereeing all round.
Raj Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Will he not get any repremand at all by anyone? Surely refs can't just get away with these shit decisions
MooseBreath Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 I know it's hard, but a common saying / belief within refereeing circles is "if you never give a penalty for handball, you'll be correct 99% of the time" with the reasoning being that players simply don't deliberately handle the ball inside the penalty area because the consequences far outweigh leaving the ball to go past you. Which makes one wonder why Mike Jones chose to give a penalty. Were external factors play a part (I don't mean match fixing I don't believe any British referee would) but atmosphere, in front of the Kop, wanting to liven the game up? Possibly. It happens. I've known referees where if a game is a bit boring or not much has happened a 50/50 decision will be given in favour of the attacking team just because referees are human too and no one wants to be boring. Wow so intentionally influencing the result is like an open secret in refereeing circles? Doesn't surprise me to be honest but that is an absolute disgrace.
DB11 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Wow so intentionally influencing the result is like an open secret in refereeing circles? Doesn't surprise me to be honest but that is an absolute disgrace. If that's how you've interpreted my post. Although that would be an incorrect interpretation.
ARTY_FOX Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 It just goes to show that a lot of these people on FoxesTalk aren't the real fans who go week in week out, just armchair experts. Not really at a few grounds this year I've had signal why queuing for a pint, moved one place forward and it's completely gone again.
DB11 Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Haha, funny you should say that about 3 weeks ago when we were playing on a Sunday someone punched a ball over the top of the bar when it was going in, it made the hand of god look inconspicuous . 3 minutes into the game 1-0 down, down to 10 men , madness. Sunday league just violates all rules going!
Gary Eatfood Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 It just goes to show that a lot of these people on FoxesTalk aren't the real fans who go week in week out, just armchair experts. As opposed to those that just spout bollox whether they go to the games or not.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 he obviously thought he saw the ball hit Morgan's arm though, he must have or we have to accuse him of cheating. have you seen that Honda advert where the car drives over the bollards, cleverly positioned to trick you into seeing something that isn't? I'm not really sticking up for him, just saying either he "saw" the ball hit Morgan's arm or he's a cheat. if it was the first one then we can't blame him, we can just demand video assistance. This.
biggs Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 he obviously thought he saw the ball hit Morgan's arm though, he must have or we have to accuse him of cheating. have you seen that Honda advert where the car drives over the bollards, cleverly positioned to trick you into seeing something that isn't? I'm not really sticking up for him, just saying either he "saw" the ball hit Morgan's arm or he's a cheat. if it was the first one then we can't blame him, we can just demand video assistance. Or he made an assumption which is more likely the case than being a cheat. He definitely didn't see it hit his arm though. Overall it's a very poor call which cost us a goal against
The Year Of The Fox Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2894251/Refereeing-worst-level-remember-GRAHAM-POLL.html
st albans fox Posted 2 January 2015 Posted 2 January 2015 Has the ref apologised for his mistake yet? Plenty of precedence. If he hasn't he truly is an arrogant c*nt
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