Dan Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 Oh i've been saying it for a while now, it dawned on me before Christmas, probably start of December time infact. I've said it in the past and i've said it today somewhere already, not sure what thread but if (When ) we go down I want these players to be here next season, they got us promoted last season and I expect them to do the same next season, but should they get us promoted (Which isn't a given, it's easier said than done and there's no guarentee they'd get us promoted) I want a majority of them gone and rebuild for a Premiership season, they are not good enough a proved that, they've had their chance, for me they shouldn't get another chance in the Premiership with us, they blotted their copybook as far as i'm concerned. There's absolutely no guarantee that they would get us back up and we cannot keep certain players based on that. Who's to say Vardy won't go back to what he was like in 2012/13 next season? I just don't buy into this league being full of brilliant players either. Plenty of sides who have kept a lot of their spine from the Championship have adapted to this league far better than us despite being a mile behind us in the Championship - where the hell did we go so wrong? We don't have full backs that get forward. That puts us at a huge disadvantage compared to nearly all other PL teams. Because we only play two in the middle, we can't afford for our FB's to overlap. We're playing a different way to nearly everyone else and it shows. The reason we look better when Hammond plays is not because he is brilliant. It's because where he plays and what he does frees up other players to offer themselves for a pass. hey presto - we're playing football rather than hoofball. Afraid I can only blame the manager for this. his tactics have not worked at this level and I feel a bit sorry for the players who are left to run around like headless chickens covering gaps all over the pitch. The problem is when they do get forward our centre halves aren't good enough to compensate. You build from the back and unfortunately our defence is player for player the worst in the division for me. If we have not brought a couple of defenders in during this window then we're as good as down for me.
Dan Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 You look at Drinkwater & Vardy in particular and you have to ask yourself, how long did it take them to settle for us at Championship level. Drinkwater was bang average for us in his first 6-12 months , come a season & a half later he turns into one of our best players. Vardy was poor in his first season, he had a crap first touch & his finishing wasn't much better, come a season later after having a year to adapt to Championship level, he turns into one of our best players. Now you look at the Premier League and it's like the same scenario all over again for them two, they are both struggling to adapt to this level and like in the Championship, it could well take them a season to adapt to Premier League level; however right now we can't afford that to happen, we need better success on the pitch and we aren't going to get that, if we play Drinkwater & Vardy week in week out. I look at the squad now and we have chopped & changed with formations so many times, but there have been times when a midfield three say is our best option. In games like that do you scrap our wing play and leave out Mahrez & Schlupp, or do you go 4-5-1 then where does that leave Kramaric? We need to find a way to accommodate our best players, and sticking with his favourites & playing 4-4-2 week in week out might not be our best option. While our performances also come down to the lack of consistency, we have played really well in recent weeks; however come yesterday we put in a bad performance & all the negatives come out again. Players have been so up and down this season, one week Morgan looks solid the next he looks shaky, one week James looks class the next he doesn't look up to it, Schlupp & Mahrez when on form they have been our two most dangerous players, but they have also put in some average performances this season. Will buying players solve these cracks, I'm not so sure. Buying better defenders (and organising of them of course) will give us a stronger base to allow players such as Drinkwater, James, Mahrez, Schlupp etc... to play their proper game. You can get away with having time to adapt in the Championship because missing out on promotion doesn't really cost you anything (unless you've gambled at going up like we did in 2011), in this league there just isn't the time, we spend a year adapting to this league but ultimately end up being relegated from it then it's a total waste of time. I haven't given up on Drinkwater, Schlupp, Mahrez, Knockaert, James or King yet as all still have years ahead of them to come back and have another crack, but I think players like Vardy, Nugent & Konchesky just simply aren't up to it and won't ever be.
LanguedocFox Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 I don't get all the doom and gloom. OK, yesterday we were poor in the second half, but it came on the back of four or five good performances, from which we got seven points and should have had nine or ten (Liverpool away and Spurs). Yesterday we lost, but the bottom six all lost, and from the (admittedly limited) evidence I've seen only Sunderland played better than we did in the first half. It's a real pity, because had we won, we would have been 16th now (and the tone of voice on FT would have been entirely different). We have some difficult games coming up, but we had difficult games at the start of the season, from which we got eight points. We also have a lot of games that we could and should win: Hull, Newcastle, QPR at home; West Brom, Burnley and Sunderland away. We could also sneak points off Spurs, Swansea and Everton. It's not going to be easy, but we have a good chance, especially when we get a full squad back.
GaelicFox Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 "We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Manchester (France) we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our GOAL (island), whatever the cost may be… we shall never surrender!" BULLDOG SPIRIT on and OFF the field that's what's needed .....let's just believe that there are 6⃣ average teams at the bottom of this league and we have a chance of still bring I. The top 3 of that 6 , the window is open still and maybe yesterday's result will get the cheque book flying again
Dan Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 I don't get all the doom and gloom. OK, yesterday we were poor in the second half, but it came on the back of four or five good performances, from which we got seven points and should have had nine or ten (Liverpool away and Spurs). Yesterday we lost, but the bottom six all lost, and from the (admittedly limited) evidence I've seen only Sunderland played better than we did in the first half. It's a real pity, because had we won, we would have been 16th now (and the tone of voice on FT would have been entirely different). We have some difficult games coming up, but we had difficult games at the start of the season, from which we got eight points. We also have a lot of games that we could and should win: Hull, Newcastle, QPR at home; West Brom, Burnley and Sunderland away. We could also sneak points off Spurs, Swansea and Everton. It's not going to be easy, but we have a good chance, especially when we get a full squad back. This has been going on all season though. It's constantly "we aren't far off" and it's going to see us relegated. We just don't produce our best nearly often enough. There are so many "coulds" but we just don't do what we "could" nearly often enough. We "could" beat Palace but the sad truth is we probably won't. I'd love to be proven wrong but I'm not feeling it.
Lionheart Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 I expected better, but I believe everyone associated with the club underestimated the gulf in class between the champ and prem - management, players and supporters. I remember watching the Everton game, and me and my dad both turned to each other after 10 mins and said 'wow'. I think our naivety and lack of experience is telling. But it's not all been doom and gloom - there have been some success stories. Particularly the attitude and workrate of the players, and some individuals. It might sound as if writing expecting relegation, but our relatively young squad will be better for this experience - and if for the most part they can kept together - they'll be back and better for it. It would be a shame if the crowd starts to get on the players back. Let's get behind them, support them - and have a real crack at the great escape. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is one of the most sensible posts I've ever read on here.
Grewks Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 Let's be honest here. The Premier league is widely regarded as the best league in the world, because of how varied the style of play is. The spanish leagues are widely regarded as being fairly technical, the bundesliga is pace and power and Serie A is extremely tactical. The Premier league however, is a variety of all three previous. Last season we bossed the league with pace, this year we lack the power and technical ability to play at this level. Only a few have showed they have what it takes.
Grewks Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 If you look at this season, it isn't too dissimilar to our last failed promotion push under Pearson, when we got into the play-offs on the last day of the season. The main consistency, is the failure to break sides down which sit deep against us.
Wasyls Pec Deck Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 This is one of the most sensible posts I've ever read on here. Cheers! I was feeling hungover and philosophical earlier on! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unabomber Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 Christ this is your soggiest post to date. oh man lol
CollinsLCFC Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 My Opinion - I am not ashamed by the way we have performed for our first season back in the premiership. I am disappointed in our league position, I do not think the team deserve to be bottom of one of, if not the toughest leagues in the world. I think, as a team we have performed well. From what I see, we have played more positively than negative in our matches. Some results have not gone our way, which is very unfortunate, but that is football. Some teams get lucky, some don't. I am not going to say in every match we have played well and its all down to 'bad luck', in some games we have been dismal and its been awful to watch. Which is what is fully expected at this level. On a whole, I am proud of how we have played. Disappointed of our position yes, but proud to say we have gave a lot of effort in a lot of games. If we put to bed the chances that we create, and apart from a few costly human errors, we would of been a lot higher up the table. I can understand peoples frustration, but what can we expect, honestly. I hope some people agree?
Benguin Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 Everton 1 point. We worked hard, could have got more, could have got less. Fair result. Chelsea 0 points. Nugent chance could have changed things but let's be realistic. The loss was about right. Arsenal 1 point. SimIilar to Everton, we grafted, stopped them getting to many clear cut chances. Fair result. Stoke 3 points. We were lucky at points but held are own. Fair win. Man utd. 3 points. I'm not sure Vardy's Penalty shout was the right decision by the ref but we had charisma and hope and worked hard. Fair win. Here it changes! 75 % of the following clashes we were unlucky to not get anything out of it. Some of our draws should have been victories. That being said we have lacked some quality. Until we are 10 points adrift with less than 5 matches remaining however, I will not lose hope that we will stay up. Problem is, there will be no positivity in the stands which I believe is crucial to keeping the players confidence, due to the scary looking fixtures list coming up. Get behind your team, stop moaning and up the Citehhhhh!
Babylon Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 it's even more gut-wrenching when you see Burnley, a team who have stuck with most of their players who, despite coming comfortably below us last season, have adapted to this league far better than we have. I'm sorry but I'm sick of this Burnley bumming. A few things: • I'd argue we didn't comfortably finish above them last season, it was a battle right to the end and they dropped off after getting a lot of injuries towards the end. • The team we got promoted with fee wise cost about the same as the team Burnley came up with. • We only spent a couple of million more than them in the summer • We to have stuck with most of the squad that came up as they have • We are only three points behind them, we were behind them for half of last year also. The way people talk you'd think they were miles ahead of us.
nettle Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 I'm sorry but I'm sick of this Burnley bumming. A few things: • I'd argue we didn't comfortably finish above them last season, it was a battle right to the end and they dropped off after getting a lot of injuries towards the end. • The team we got promoted with fee wise cost about the same as the team Burnley came up with. • We only spent a couple of million more than them in the summer • We to have stuck with most of the squad that came up as they have • We are only three points behind them, we were behind them for half of last year also. The way people talk you'd think they were miles ahead of us. There not miles ahead of us squad wise probably worse, just got a better Manager.
Bettsj2 Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 Disappointed but not neccessarily just with how we've performed overall. I didnt watch much Prem football last year, just MOTD and the odd Super Sunday game so really just the best of it. Now watching game after game, I have to say my greatest disappointment is with the general standard of the games. Its nowhere near as exciting as the championship and the majority of the games have extremely long patches of not much going on at all and quite a few teams seem happy for that to happen. When we've played with absolute urgency, we've looked good and got something from the game. When we try to play tactics it's embarrassing how limited we are. Babs is right. There are 6 teams of which we are one that are really much of a muchness. If Kramaric and any others that we can bring in provide just a smidgen of quality, we could scrape survival which i'll (and i'm sure everyone) be happy with. What I wont be happy with is if we go down having been as pathetic as we were on Saturday and during that bloody run.
Guest ttfn Posted 18 January 2015 Posted 18 January 2015 There's absolutely no guarantee that they would get us back up and we cannot keep certain players based on that. Who's to say Vardy won't go back to what he was like in 2012/13 next season? I just don't buy into this league being full of brilliant players either. Plenty of sides who have kept a lot of their spine from the Championship have adapted to this league far better than us despite being a mile behind us in the Championship - where the hell did we go so wrong? Basically this, especially the second paragraph. Hull were not a great deal better than we were in 2012/13 and yet were pretty much safe by March. Palace likewise (safe by mid-April). Neither side strengthened their entire squads drastically - even today, 20 months after promotion, Hull lined up with Bruce, Chester, Elmohamaddy, Quinn, Meyler and Aluko from their Championship season. Palace started on Saturday with Speroni, Delaney, Zaha and Ward from the Championship and of their new signings Gayle, Ledley and McArthur were signed from League One, Narnia, the Championship respectively. Even the likes of Martin Kelly and Yaya Sanogo are hardly awash with Premier League experience. It's way too simplistic to point at the failure to strengthen in the summer as a reason for our current predicament. Plenty of other sides with players far poorer at Championship level have had those players step up and become Premier League players with the "know how" to see games out from winning positions and not waste half a season making sloppy errors. Arguably it is a fault of the management not to see that the likes of Vardy and Drinkwater, heroic in our promotion season, wouldn't be able to step up to the Premier League. But they deserved a chance and ultimately have totally fvcked it up to a point that very few would have predicted. That run of 2 points from 13 games (against just 3 of last season's top 7) was almost legendarily bad - characterised by dire tactics, poor team selection and a never-ending sequence of individual errors with Schmeichel, Hamer, de Laet, Vardy, Mahrez, Morgan, Cambiasso, Moore, Konchesky and Schlupp all culpable to the point that they were demonstrably responsible for costing us points at key moments in games. I do think we're through that spell now and we're on an upward curve. If we go down it will, to my mind, be 3 months of madness which cost us. Perhaps poor summer transfer activity is to blame. But the success of Hull and Palace last season and the relative success of Burnley this time out suggests that something more nuanced is responsible - poor coaching, complacency, individual sloppiness from some "dependable" players or, dare I say it, a chunk of bad luck.
Dan Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 Basically this, especially the second paragraph. Hull were not a great deal better than we were in 2012/13 and yet were pretty much safe by March. Palace likewise (safe by mid-April). Neither side strengthened their entire squads drastically - even today, 20 months after promotion, Hull lined up with Bruce, Chester, Elmohamaddy, Quinn, Meyler and Aluko from their Championship season. Palace started on Saturday with Speroni, Delaney, Zaha and Ward from the Championship and of their new signings Gayle, Ledley and McArthur were signed from League One, Narnia, the Championship respectively. Even the likes of Martin Kelly and Yaya Sanogo are hardly awash with Premier League experience. It's way too simplistic to point at the failure to strengthen in the summer as a reason for our current predicament. Plenty of other sides with players far poorer at Championship level have had those players step up and become Premier League players with the "know how" to see games out from winning positions and not waste half a season making sloppy errors. Arguably it is a fault of the management not to see that the likes of Vardy and Drinkwater, heroic in our promotion season, wouldn't be able to step up to the Premier League. But they deserved a chance and ultimately have totally fvcked it up to a point that very few would have predicted. That run of 2 points from 13 games (against just 3 of last season's top 7) was almost legendarily bad - characterised by dire tactics, poor team selection and a never-ending sequence of individual errors with Schmeichel, Hamer, de Laet, Vardy, Mahrez, Morgan, Cambiasso, Moore, Konchesky and Schlupp all culpable to the point that they were demonstrably responsible for costing us points at key moments in games. I do think we're through that spell now and we're on an upward curve. If we go down it will, to my mind, be 3 months of madness which cost us. Perhaps poor summer transfer activity is to blame. But the success of Hull and Palace last season and the relative success of Burnley this time out suggests that something more nuanced is responsible - poor coaching, complacency, individual sloppiness from some "dependable" players or, dare I say it, a chunk of bad luck. Superb post. Literally word for word why this season baffles me as much as anything. One logic I thought of is that we were built around how to destroy the Championship with attacking, pacey football where-as the likes of Hull & Palace weren't - both were more scrappy (Hull played some nice stuff at times in fairness) and it seems to translate better to this league. Our attacking can at times be deadly but ultimately costly as we aren't quite good enough to break down some of the defences in this league. I am quite amazed a side who scored so frequently last year can look as clueless as they did against Stoke, mind you. I'm sorry but I'm sick of this Burnley bumming. A few things: • I'd argue we didn't comfortably finish above them last season, it was a battle right to the end and they dropped off after getting a lot of injuries towards the end. • The team we got promoted with fee wise cost about the same as the team Burnley came up with. • We only spent a couple of million more than them in the summer • We to have stuck with most of the squad that came up as they have • We are only three points behind them, we were behind them for half of last year also. The way people talk you'd think they were miles ahead of us. Hold my hands up there. Very fair post. I still however firmly believe they have improved upon last year and we simply haven't.
STUHILL Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 Biggest disappointment to me, was the summer transfer dealings. I thought we would really push the boat out and buy some quality and spend 20-30million In some ways I can understand that Pearson may have wanted to give the players that got us up their chance in the Prem, but I find that incredibly naive and perhaps will be our downfall. Can't fault the player's effort but the lack of quality is costing us. There is still a chance of course, but it will take a mammoth effort and players like Drinkwater, James and Vardy need to make the step up, we all hoped they would!
ozleicester Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 Are we where i expected?. No i certainly did not expect to be bottom, i thought we would be fighting for 17th. But that was before we made minimal headway in the summer window, Ulloa and Cambiasso were OK signings but i expected a couple of premier league players to come in and to be fair, in terms of a first choice player we still havent made those signings. From what ive seen (stream) we are playing ok and with the side we have probably a little better than i expected. Bottom line for me, was i expected to be fighting relegation and we are. BUT, i thought we would survive and im not in anyway confident of that at the moment. Trying to survive in the Premier league WITHOUT experienced Prem players (or managers) is one very big ask!
Babylon Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 There not miles ahead of us squad wise probably worse, just got a better Manager. I point you to the very last bullet point, they were ahead of us for half of last season also. We went on to finish above them. It's all very well using it as another stick to beat the manager with, but it's where you end up that matters not half way through a season.
Crinklyfox Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 I expected us to struggle this season but believed that we had enough about us to survive. Last season we didn't have a host of clubs knocking at the door trying to prise away our Premier League quality players. That's because we didn't have a host of proven PL quality players. So when this season started NP had to hope that most of the squad that got us up would make the transition to the PL. His loyalty to those players would have helped maintain the good team spirit that I believe we still have in the squad. The reality, however, is that a number of players haven't made the grade yet, and I think that some never will. Most clubs in the PL that have been around for a couple of years or more have PL quality players in every position. There are a few that don't, plus the newly promoted sides, and they are our rivals for the relegation battle. The challenge is to identify those positions where we have the greatest weaknesses and obtain players of PL quality to fill those positions as soon as possible. I doubt that there is another team in the PL that has conceded as many soft goals through individual errors than we have this season. If we were even average in that department I believe that we'd have a few more points by now and be better placed for the remainder of the season. The players that made those errors are still turning out most weeks, so I've little confidence that we've addressed that issue, and this could be the deciding factor by May. I truly hope that we can improve sufficiently to survive; if that happens we have a further opportunity to strengthen the squad which would make next season easier.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 This forum never ceases to amaze me in terms of the people that slate the team on the back of a bad result OR people that will continue to see the positives whatever the situation. Those whose glasses are completely full or completely empty, so to speak. Discussing this last night in the pub with my mates (all of us 40 somethings), the general conclusion we came to is that actually City are having a poor season. Certainly worse than we thought we'd have. The summer was wasted in terms of strengthening the squad. Whatever the reasons (many given), we failed to strengthen, quality wise, in key areas. We have seen two of our best performers of last season (Vardy and Drinkwater) become a shadow of their former selves. Why is this? Ability? Tactics? Again, whatever the reasons, two of our players who we expected to make the step up, haven't..or at least not yet. We all agreed that we expected more of Cambiasso, for example. For all his touches and quality passes, he's been pedestrian in too many games. We expected him to control more games than he has done. Finally..the Jan transfer window. Though by no means closed, we all expected us to sign a provider of chances to our strikers. We nearly got Maloney but personal terms finished this. IF he's the player we needed, within reason, we need to pay him to get him. This is the Premiership..and players come with a premium. So I'm not being all doom and gloom. Certain players have shone actually. Hammond and Wasa for instance. Schlupp is improving also. I'm also not looking through rose tints...for me, this is as barmy as being completely pessimistic. BUT generally, as fans of City for over thirty years, we as a group are pretty disappointed. We expected better...not to be great (let me make that clear) but better than we have been. And the last thing we want is to go back down again, having not made much of a fist of staying up. This could change. But we can't see where and how unless we now make a couple more signings for players who are better than we have now. Anyway, opinions please. Are we performing at a level everyone expected. Or are people actually quite disappointed? I agree with almost everything you have said. On Schlupp however I am nowhere convinced he's good enough or will ever be. That aside, I am disappointed with how things have gone, starting with the close season. I did did think at the time we should have brought in better players in the Summer to replace those who were already proven not to be up to PL level. Nugent for example was found wanting previously. Konchesky was getting long in the tooth.Would Wes be mobile enough against world class strikers, when all his career he's never played at this higher level. Hammond was an ageing Championship 'free'? who could not a regular place down last season. This list could go on. On the other side of it, I admit to believing that Vardy would step up after tearing defences to shreads the season before. Along with Mahrez, I thought the partnership of Drinks and Jaymo would be able to keep us up. I admit I was even more sure with the thought of Cambi being able share his experience and wisdom with that young, progressive pairing. It's not happened I believe simply because we have too many weakness, which during a game means, the more competent ones are often flat out to compensate for their team mates inadequacies. The most disappointing thing is we've had money to spend and decided not to, we are told out of misplaced loyalty or a misplaced belief that virtually NO reinforcements were needed. That has been a GAMBLE that massively backfired. They were billionaires 6 months ago, but only now it seems when we are 3 parts relegated is there any intent on keeping us up by having a PL side as opposed to a 2nd tier one. Summary: Baffled and disappointed
chapero82 Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 In classic Coldplay style, Nobody said it was easy Nobody ever said it would be so hard. I would say it would be more like this
Bob666 Posted 19 January 2015 Posted 19 January 2015 Frustrated rather than disappointed. I thought out first year back in EPL would be tough but having supported City for over 40 years, I've been determined to enjoy it regardless of the "lows". My main frustration is that the quality of the other EPL teams has not been as high as I expected. I couldn't believe how "poor" Man City were & was left frustrated that we got outdone by one piece of quality positioning/goal by Lampard before MCFC wasted time to see out the game. The same for Spurs which we should have won but mistakes cost us. Frustrated with Pearson's tactics from Burnley second half to Sunderland. Frustrated that certain players have not made the step up (yet): Vardy; DeLaet; Drinkwater. Frustrated with mistakes made by certain normally steady consistent players costing us goals/points: Schmeichel (Liverpool); Moore (Aston Villa); Morgan (WBA/QPR); Konch (West Ham.......OK he's not been as bad as expected but still makes costly mistakes). . Frustrated that we can't seem to score from corners; other teams can beat us on set pieces eg CPFC; Burnley last minute goal; poor referee decisions (eg Liverpool); etc etc........... However, when I think back to past games against Charlton/Yeovil/Doncaster/Peterboro/MK Dons - I'm happy that we're in the EPL & will enjoy the games to the end of the season...........& hopefully enjoy more games with a hint of frustration in EPL next season.
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