Guest Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 You clearly do not comprehend what depression can do. I have been on medication for severe depression for a few years now, and it is not something which is rational. Some days I feel fine, and have no problem, but on others, I seem to descend into a black void, from which there is no logical way out. Indeed, logic totally vanishes, and one's actions can be alarming to loved ones. I have, on one occasion attempted suicide, but that was thwarted by police and medics. On other occasions, I have, and still do, self harm, and have many scars on my arms and stomach. Reason does not come into the equation. I could find your post insulting, but I will put it down to your ignorance of the facts about what depression can do to people. You are not alone, for unless one has suffered it, understanding does not come easily. Whilst I'm sorry for you, you also have to accept that's your problem and not Finnegan's.
Buce Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 You clearly do not comprehend what depression can do. I have been on medication for severe depression for a few years now, and it is not something which is rational. Some days I feel fine, and have no problem, but on others, I seem to descend into a black void, from which there is no logical way out. Indeed, logic totally vanishes, and one's actions can be alarming to loved ones. I have, on one occasion attempted suicide, but that was thwarted by police and medics. On other occasions, I have, and still do, self harm, and have many scars on my arms and stomach. Reason does not come into the equation. I could find your post insulting, but I will put it down to your ignorance of the facts about what depression can do to people. You are not alone, for unless one has suffered it, understanding does not come easily. It took guts to write this, DT.
Buce Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Sure but that shouldn't stop others airing their views. If we follow your suggestion we'll talk about nothing because there's sure to be someone on here suffering from it - voting conservative for instance! I agree. I don't want to stifle discussion because people are concerned about saying the wrong thing: it's only by discussing it that people might begin to understand what a truly dreadful illness depression is.
Merging Cultures Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Sure but that shouldn't stop others airing their views. If we follow your suggestion we'll talk about nothing because there's sure to be someone on here suffering from it - voting conservative for instance!MattP can't help it!! (Yeah, I vote Con too.. )
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 MattP can't help it!! (Yeah, I vote Con too.. ) You tell him Balts
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Well this is a ****ing retarded post. Why is there so much stupid one way or the other? Depression is serious. Should not be dismissed as Stan Collymore and his bollocks. Flip side, this guy seems to have been a massive ****. Balance. I was being balanced .....DEPRESSION does not cause people to fly planes into mountains , that's ridicules for anyone to even offer it as an explanation Simply put ....this would be a mad or bad trial and he would have no justification based on his actions to claim he was of diminished responsibility , it was totally calculated and totally planned ....totally I know depression is fecking serious , BUT it's not a reason for murder , or else we would lock everyone with depression up , we don't because people with depression are generally only a minor risk to themselves and generally very very slight risk to anyone else. IF he was psychotic ....he wouldn't have been able to function ,,, he wasn't psychotic This was just one sick twisted evil fecker ....a murdering psychopathic cvnt
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 You clearly do not comprehend what depression can do. I have been on medication for severe depression for a few years now, and it is not something which is rational. Some days I feel fine, and have no problem, but on others, I seem to descend into a black void, from which there is no logical way out. Indeed, logic totally vanishes, and one's actions can be alarming to loved ones. I have, on one occasion attempted suicide, but that was thwarted by police and medics. On other occasions, I have, and still do, self harm, and have many scars on my arms and stomach. Reason does not come into the equation. I could find your post insulting, but I will put it down to your ignorance of the facts about what depression can do to people. You are not alone, for unless one has suffered it, understanding does not come easily. Having been a professional and given evidence at over 30 trials and MH tribunals quite honestly I have never seen anyone found not guilty on grounds of diminished responsibility for murder because of Depression Even Depressed people have reasonable responsibilities for THIER actions and the limits of those actions Murder would not and never should have responsibility for that murder discharged because of depression Psychosis is another matter .... This Pilot was not psychotic Your issues although are very sad and shocking for you and your family , they would never in a court of law excuse you for murder This pilot was a murder Thank you for sharing your experiences
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Having been a professional and given evidence at over 30 trials and MH tribunals quite honestly I have never seen anyone found not guilty on grounds of diminished responsibility for murder because of Depression Bloody good point and I'm glad of that. Quite fearful we're going to start seeing murder downgraded to manslaughter on the basis of things like depression soon.
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Bloody good point and I'm glad of that. Quite fearful we're going to start seeing murder downgraded to manslaughter on the basis of things like depression soon. It's a very very serious illness , but it's just crazy and very convenient for Authorities to sign this off as the actions caused by a man suffering depression ...." Ahh it was the depression ......" We need to keep in perspective this was a murdering psychopathic cvnt The fact he took anti depressants or got sick notes are only facts of the matter , not the cause of the matter He was given time off work , he choice was to ignore the doctors repeatedly ....he knew what he was doing and he made sure he did it !!!
MPH Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 It's a very very serious illness , but it's just crazy and very convenient for Authorities to sign this off as the actions caused by a man suffering depression ...." Ahh it was the depression ......" We need to keep in perspective this was a murdering psychopathic cvnt The fact he took anti depressants or got sick notes are only facts of the matter , not the cause of the matter He was given time off work , he choice was to ignore the doctors repeatedly ....he knew what he was doing and he made sure he did it !!! Whilst i do agree with you in some degree, there can be a case for this never having happened without his mental illness/ depression. By most accounts he was a very likeable person. I would not call his mental illness the cause of his actions but possibly a contributory factor. It's very hard for someone who has not had this level of depression/mental illness before to really understand just exactly how it can effect you. You simply Are unable to think striaght or rationally with alot of mental illnesses
Mike Oxlong Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 It's a very very serious illness , but it's just crazy and very convenient for Authorities to sign this off as the actions caused by a man suffering depression ...." Ahh it was the depression ......" We need to keep in perspective this was a murdering psychopathic cvnt The fact he took anti depressants or got sick notes are only facts of the matter , not the cause of the matter He was given time off work , he choice was to ignore the doctors repeatedly ....he knew what he was doing and he made sure he did it !!! Depression affects rational thought to varying degrees. I'm not saying it's an excuse but to my.mind it is certainly plausible as a significant contributory factor and I don't see it as such a black and white issue as you.
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Depression affects rational thought to varying degrees. I'm not saying it's an excuse but to my.mind it is certainly plausible as a significant contributory factor and I don't see it as such a black and white issue as you. his girlfriebd dumping him I suspect was a much bigger contributory factor , I should imagine the scale and totality of his destruction was to insure a legacy of pain and hurt for those that caused him pain and hurt The guy knew exactly what he was doing ... It was planned and calculated , he had oppertunity to reach for help ...this is not some poor sod lonely and unsupported , he ripped up the certificates that were designed to help him get space to get help. Sorry on what is in the public domain there is NO reason to attribute this to him being depressed , if you wish to be open to that theory that's fine , I'm not ....he is totally responsible and had numerous opertunties to change his plans
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Depression affects rational thought to varying degrees. I'm not saying it's an excuse but to my.mind it is certainly plausible as a significant contributory factor and I don't see it as such a black and white issue as you. Somone screaming and kicking a door and pleading with you to open the door it's a very very BIG challenge to your rational , his depression (if he was depressed ) didn't drive the inner desire to do this ... Anger did or us more likely to have been the major emotion at the time WE are all assuming he was depressed , many people use depression as a cloak to get time off work because they have better things to be doing or because the are stressed or inadequate .....having sick notes from a GP isn't nessicarily true evidence of depression , over 75,000 people in the UK this year alone have been forced off SICK benefits and back to work because they weren't really depressed , just pissed off at life and couldn't be arsed ...but Thier GP had given them sick certs for depression Let's wait till the full picture comes out ....but This being labeled to Depression is quite wrong in my opinion And if I had depression I'd be very angry at that !
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Whilst I'm sorry for you, you also have to accept that's your problem and not Finnegan's. I was attempting to illustrate what could happen to anybody, including a Co-Pilot. It may have happened to him, or it may not, but it certainly should not be flippantly referred to in a "and what" manner. Yes, you are right, it is my problem, and not Finnegan's
Mike Oxlong Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 his girlfriebd dumping him I suspect was a much bigger contributory factor , I should imagine the scale and totality of his destruction was to insure a legacy of pain and hurt for those that caused him pain and hurt The guy knew exactly what he was doing ... It was planned and calculated , he had oppertunity to reach for help ...this is not some poor sod lonely and unsupported , he ripped up the certificates that were designed to help him get space to get help. Sorry on what is in the public domain there is NO reason to attribute this to him being depressed , if you wish to be open to that theory that's fine , I'm not ....he is totally responsible and had numerous opertunties to change his plans He didnt because he was a psychopathic murdering cvnt Of course he knew what he was doing. Who has suggested otherwise? Not quite sure on what basis you feel able to comment on what was likely to be the "bigger contributory factor" Even if you have relevant qualifications without having conducted an assessment of him your views are simple speculation. But my point remains that depression often affects rational thought. Rationally thinking people don't self harm. Rationally thinking people don't fly packed planes into mountains. The mad or bad debate is certainly an interesting one. Nothing you have posted so far has changed my expressed views that it's not as simple as you suggest.
Mike Oxlong Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Somone screaming and kicking a door and pleading with you to open the door it's a very very BIG challenge to your rational , his depression (if he was depressed ) didn't drive the inner desire to do this ... Anger did or us more likely to have been the major emotion at the time WE are all assuming he was depressed , many people use depression as a cloak to get time off work because they have better things to be doing or because the are stressed or inadequate .....having sick notes from a GP isn't nessicarily true evidence of depression , over 75,000 people in the UK this year alone have been forced off SICK benefits and back to work because they weren't really depressed , just pissed off at life and couldn't be arsed ...but Thier GP had given them sick certs for depression Let's wait till the full picture comes out ....but This being labeled to Depression is quite wrong in my opinion And if I had depression I'd be very angry at that ! There is a difference between blaming it on depression and considering that it may have been a relevant factor. Your scenarios assume a rational mind. A rational mind doesn't self harm, throw oneself under a train or in front of a lorry either.
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Of course he knew what he was doing. Who has suggested otherwise? Not quite sure on what basis you feel able to comment on what was likely to be the "bigger contributory factor" Even if you have relevant qualifications without having conducted an assessment of him your views are simple speculation. But my point remains that depression often affects rational thought. Rationally thinking people don't self harm. Rationally thinking people don't fly packed planes into mountains. The mad or bad debate is certainly an interesting one. Nothing you have posted so far has changed my expressed views that it's not as simple as you suggest. I actually think we are on the same page just different paragraphs Your right its not simple , neither is the over stressing in the media of his depression We are sort of on the same page
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 There is a difference between blaming it on depression and considering that it may have been a relevant factor. Your scenarios assume a rational mind. A rational mind doesn't self harm, throw oneself under a train or in front of a lorry either. I don't think I said it was irrelevant .... I wasjust saying in terms if mitigation for murder , depression is generally taken as totally irrelevant for mitigation I think he was rational , everything he did was well thought out and planned , his breAthing wasn't pressured he was totally calm , totally calm breathing , never screamed , totally rational , I believe he knew and accepted what his faith was he wanted and welcomed his actions and the consequences of those .... He calmly and rationally flew a plane into a mountain because he wanted to ....calm breathing , no panic Why he wanted to do it ?? ....hopefully we will find that out But I suspect we will never know Society had a fixation with suicide being totally irrational , for some it's a totally rational exit ...we should start to explore that concept and we might prevent some suicides ... We forget in Japan even today Seppuku (Harakiri) is still acceptable , and totally rational
MPH Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 I don't think I said it was irrelevant .... I wasjust saying in terms if mitigation for murder , depression is generally taken as totally irrelevant for mitigation I think he was rational , everything he did was well thought out and planned , his breAthing wasn't pressured he was totally calm , totally calm breathing , never screamed , totally rational , I believe he knew and accepted what his faith was he wanted and welcomed his actions and the consequences of those .... He calmly and rationally flew a plane into a mountain because he wanted to ....calm breathing , no panic Why he wanted to do it ?? ....hopefully we will find that out But I suspect we will never know Society had a fixation with suicide being totally irrational , for some it's a totally rational exit ...we should start to explore that concept and we might prevent some suicides ... We forget in Japan even today Seppuku (Harakiri) is still acceptable , and totally rational planning something out and acting rationally are two seperate things... Psycopaths, for example can plan things meticulously.. but they are far from rational..
Carl the Llama Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 I wonder if it's as simple as he wanted to kill himself and, being a pilot, crashing a plane into a mountain was the most surefire instantaneous death he could imagine. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to consider that once you've taken the decision to end your role in the universe that you may no longer have the highest level of concern for society at large. Or maybe he decided that he was the only real consciousness in the world and it didn't make any difference if he took a load of AIs with him. In any case I don't think he was trying to make a statement, not for now anyway. If he was trying to say something about society he would have left a manifesto of sorts somewhere, but we haven't found one yet.
RowlattsFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Maybe he felt he wanted to commit suicide but didn't want his family to know he had killed himself, so decided he may be able to crash a plane without anyone knowing it was his fault.
Guest Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Maybe he felt he wanted to commit suicide but didn't want his family to know he had killed himself, so decided he may be able to crash a plane without anyone knowing it was his fault. Well he failed there.
bovril Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 Maybe he felt he wanted to commit suicide but didn't want his family to know he had killed himself, so decided he may be able to crash a plane without anyone knowing it was his fault. I'd say there are more inconspicuous ways of snuffing it than flying a plane into a mountain at 700km/h.
RowlattsFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 I'd say there are more inconspicuous ways of snuffing it than flying a plane into a mountain at 700km/h. Well yes you'd think so but he is probably not thinking rationally.
GaelicFox Posted 27 March 2015 Posted 27 March 2015 planning something out and acting rationally are two seperate things... Psycopaths, for example can plan things meticulously.. but they are far from rational.. Yea I know this , they can mutually exist together I would suggest he rationally thought through the reasons for his actions and carried them out , his reasoning is obviously flawed but every day millions of us make mistakes based on poor reasoning , it doesn't make us irrational And also many Psychopaths are rational , it's the reasoning and application of the reasoning is warpped and corrupted but they thinks rationally and often act rationally , they do wrong things but they do them having reasoned them through
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