RowlattsFox Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 They must be pretty certain of this to release a statement like that. Unbelievably scary that a pilot, who we all trust, can intentionally do this. I'm flying to Brussels next week, from now on we'll be looking at the pilot and thinking can i trust you? Is it possible that somebody, a passenger maybe could get into the cockpit whilst pilot was away? Would probably have something on the recording though. Makes no sense why someone would do this.
AndWhat? Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Wow, Just cannot imagine being on that plane as it was going down.
Footballwipe Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Wow... https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/581073962274328576/photo/1 (Sorry if this has been posted already)
kingcarr21 Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Absolutely tragic. Co Pilot must have had some serious issues to take his own life along with the rest of the plane.
leicsmac Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Wow... https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/581073962274328576/photo/1 (Sorry if this has been posted already) Holy shit. Has this been officially released? Either way, that seems fairly definitive.
Babylon Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 just seems odd to hear the impact. planes dont blow up slowly. would have thought it would be (for arguments sake) talk talk silence. not talk talk bang silence. you are right i am looking into this too deep The sound could be a millisecond's worth, not the whole thing. Traveling at 700kmph I'd imagine that's what it is.
RowlattsFox Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Has to be pre-meditated as well surely, what if the pilot didn't go to the loo?
Guest MattP Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Their job is to report facts, not hearsay and speculation dressed up as such and not backed by evidence. They do that way too often when there's an angle to pursue that can sell. When you're dealing with a massive tragedy like this, and then they report these matters without evidence in their search for an angle, disregarding the human cost of it all...that's what I find loathsome. It seems disrespectful to the dead, happens much too often, and it creates fear when sometimes there is no reason for any. Once it's confirmed that foul play was involved here (and it's looking increasingly likely to be the case), that's the time to break out the 'terrorist act' line - not before If it was 'Was it terrorism?' and been based on just suspicion I would agree, but clearly a very source with hard evidence revealed it to the Wall Street Journal and the papers then reported from there, I don't think that's ethically wrong from the newspapers or disrespectful to the family, I find the crash being pushed to the middle pages so Jeremy Clarkson and some kid from a boy band can be on the front far worse than the above. I hope this isn't referred to as a suicide either, the guy is a mass murderer if what we are hearing is true. Anyway important thing here is to think about the victims, no one deserves to die this way, even more so when the last moments would have been filled with the terror of what they went through.
MPH Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 If the investigator wasn't sure enough of things to have their name on it, then s/he should have waited for the official line too. Again, 'unnamed sources' can so easily be made up - though, again, not as it turns out in this case. It does sound very much like a deliberate act of foul play. Appalling. Think its probably more to do with him/her risking his job... Kind of like, if one of my patients was a famous star or something and he died... and his family knew..... I could be 100% certain he was dead but if i released it to the media without it becoming official, i could lose my job...
Guest MattP Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/4u9525/#5d42675
leicsmac Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 HE WAS AWAKE AND MOVING DIALS ..BREATHING NORMALLY AND CONTROLLED ...NO HEART ATTACH ...JUST AN EVIL MURDERING KRAUT ...70 years ago he he would probably been a gas works enginer in a concentration camp ...pure evil Yup, because there's nothing like ridiculous hyperbole when a lot of innocent people have just died. What the motivations of this man were are completely unknown, but the evidence seems that he had a pretty serious screw loose...and the good/evil ditchtomy that you speak of? Save that for the kids storybooks.
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 HE WAS AWAKE AND MOVING DIALS ..BREATHING NORMALLY AND CONTROLLED ...NO HEART ATTACH ...JUST AN EVIL MURDERING KRAUT ...70 years ago he he would probably been a gas works enginer in a concentration camp ...pure evil Yes, exactly. As I said, he locked the door, and the plane descended in a controlled manner. (unless you think I was saying he had a heart attack, I see a spelling mistake in that quote which says 'that' instead of 'than')
lgfualol Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Awful. Awful awful. I just can only imagine this resulting in a definite suicide/murder. Lufthansa (and the companies it owns) dont have a protocal where 2 people must be in the cockpit at all times. I have a feeling that will definitely change, at least I hope so else I'm going to volunteer to hold the door open next week.
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Awful. Awful awful. I just can only imagine this resulting in a definite suicide/murder. Lufthansa (and the companies it owns) dont have a protocal where 2 people must be in the cockpit at all times. I have a feeling that will definitely change, at least I hope so else I'm going to volunteer to hold the door open next week. That's shocking. I did read that some European airlines are more lax re this procedure than the American ones, but I didn't think Lufthansa would be that lax.
Guest MattP Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Awful. Awful awful. I just can only imagine this resulting in a definite suicide/murder. Lufthansa (and the companies it owns) dont have a protocal where 2 people must be in the cockpit at all times. I have a feeling that will definitely change, at least I hope so else I'm going to volunteer to hold the door open next week. I really don't see what we can actually do here. Either way it's certainly not going to result in outside people being allowed into the cockpit at any point in this day and age. If a pilot really wanted to commit suicide this way he's going to do it, even with that rule of 2 in he could slip something into his co-pilots drink to spark him out, tons of things.
MPH Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 I wouldn't read too much in to that, I would imagine standard procedure would be for the door to be locked for security reasons. Although you really have to ask questions about how a pilot can be left alone and the other pilot not being able to gain access if he should leave. That just sounds like an accident waiting to happen, or an opportunity for foul play anyway. There is an unlock code cab crew press to get into the cabin or something a pilot would press if like in this instance he was locked out of the cabin. A security feature so to speak... However the override button was pressed by the co pilot to disable this feature meaning the unlock code was unable to be entered. keeping the door locked. If as merging cultures is suggesting that a fall could be responsible for this then it has to be the most unfortunate fall in the history of mankind as several different buttons in severeal different areas seem of been pressed... Also the protocol merging cultures mentioned about having a flight attendant go to the cockpit if a pilot goes to the loo is not a universal protocol.... it is only something SOME major airlines have adopted. Lusthansa and its subsideries have not adopted this protocol....
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 There is an unlock code cab crew press to get into the cabin or something a pilot would press if like in this instance he was locked out of the cabin. A security feature so to speak... However the override button was pressed by the co pilot to disable this feature meaning the unlock code was unable to be entered. keeping the door locked. If as merging cultures is suggesting that a fall could be responsible for this then it has to be the most unfortunate fall in the history of mankind as several different buttons in severeal different areas seem of been pressed... Also the protocol merging cultures mentioned about having a flight attendant go to the cockpit if a pilot goes to the loo is not a universal protocol.... it is only something SOME major airlines have adopted. Lusthansa and its subsideries have not adopted this protocol.... Eh?!
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Except, they can't be locked out unless the person/people inside the cockpit want to lock them out. There is a keypad that allows them to enter from the outside, unless the person/people inside deactivate it. Not sure how this constitutes a fall!!!
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Apparently there is a protocol for having a steward go to the cockpit if a pilot goes to the loo. It doesn't seem to have been observed this time. Also, there is a keypad that is supposed to allow entry from the outside if the pilot inside has a medical problem. However, that can be deactivated for 5mins at a time by the pilot inside to prevent someone entering. So, it seems likely that the pilot inside turned the keypad off and prevented the other pilot entering. No fall here either! And I should have said, some airlines have a protocol...
lgfualol Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 I really don't see what we can actually do here. Either way it's certainly not going to result in outside people being allowed into the cockpit at any point in this day and age. If a pilot really wanted to commit suicide this way he's going to do it, even with that rule of 2 in he could slip something into his co-pilots drink to spark him out, tons of things. Yeah, it is difficult to think what they can do. I read that there are people trying to get cameras in the cockpit during flights, so they can get further information. The majority of pilots are very against it though, probably because they wont be able to sleep and stuff whilst the plane is in autopilot.
MPH Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 No fall here either! And I should have said, some airlines have a protocol... Im sorry... reading at working and trying to work at the same time can make a bad combination , sometimes!
Merging Cultures Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Im sorry... reading at working and trying to work at the same time can make a bad combination , sometimes! No problems! I was just a bit confused and didn't want to be misrepresented as a numpty!
lgfualol Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 The pilot has been named as Andreas Lubitz a 28 year old German. Police are in his house right now.
Finnegan Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 Yup, because there's nothing like ridiculous hyperbole when a lot of innocent people have just died. What the motivations of this man were are completely unknown, but the evidence seems that he had a pretty serious screw loose...and the good/evil ditchtomy that you speak of? Save that for the kids storybooks. This brings me back to the Clark Carlisle thread, you can be depressed and still be a complete cvnt. If it's a suicide attempt and he takes a hundred and fifty people with him then he's an arsehole. It's a little bit more of an excuse if he's, purely as an example pulled out of nowhere, a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks everyone on board as a demon from hell or that there's a nuclear bomb on board and he's doing the right thing but then you'd have to question why a paranoid schizophrenic was flying a plane. It's really best if people lay off the speculation as I'm sure details will come out in the investigation and all told it sounds like an absolutely tragic loss of life. Gutting. Regards airline safety, though, I appreciate the catch 22 of cabin access but would it not be possible to have access granted remotely by air traffic control, for example?
leicsmac Posted 26 March 2015 Posted 26 March 2015 This brings me back to the Clark Carlisle thread, you can be depressed and still be a complete cvnt. If it's a suicide attempt and he takes a hundred and fifty people with him then he's an arsehole. It's a little bit more of an excuse if he's, purely as an example pulled out of nowhere, a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks everyone on board as a demon from hell or that there's a nuclear bomb on board and he's doing the right thing but then you'd have to question why a paranoid schizophrenic was flying a plane. It's really best if people lay off the speculation as I'm sure details will come out in the investigation and all told it sounds like an absolutely tragic loss of life. Gutting. Regards airline safety, though, I appreciate the catch 22 of cabin access but would it not be possible to have access granted remotely by air traffic control, for example? Yeah, this is true, as I posted just above about the same time as you. We don't know anywhere near to the truth but if it comes out that he has wanted to take a hundred and fifty people with him that's utterly appalling. But right now we really don't know. There has to be a better, more foolproof solution regarding the cockpit doors than we have now. I know I said earlier about having to strike a balance between a pilot going off the chain and an attempting hijacking and 9/11 scenario but surely there's a solution where that balance is no longer necessary or at least mitigated further?
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