Next Leader of the Opposition

[Ross-Kemp]

I don't sing the anthem either. One I am an atheist and two she does not sing god save the pleb. I neither respect or disrespect the Queen but I would be hypocritical if I sang it in public. I have no problem with others singing it.

Oh Ken.

She doesn't sing 'God save the pleb'

I neither respect nor disrespect the queen.

Priceless.

[Buce]

A spliff? I'm 32 years old, not 14..

One has to wonder with childish comments like that; or is it getting legless drunk and snorting coke that defines your maturity?

[Alf Bentley]

Just makes him look a bit childish, I don't believe in God either but I wouldn't refuse to sing a hymn at a funeral or something, 

 

 

Out of curiosity, if a Muslim friend took you to a ceremony at their mosque, would you join in and shout "Allahu Akbar!" when the Imam indicated that it was the appropriate moment?  

 

 

Almost feel sorry for Corbyn watching these papers reviews, he's being panned from all sides, he really does need to smarten himself up, he'll destroy his party if he spends the next five years behaving like a scruffy teenager 

 

 

Yesterday, he seemed to be wearing a smart suit and tie to the Battle of Britain commemoration, and smart-casual the rest of the day, with an open neck at the TUC. Seems reasonable.  

 

Admittedly, that was on the BBC News, so it had probably been photoshopped by the gay, Islamist, anarcho-Trotskyist clique who use the BBC to dominate the national discourse and destroy the traditional values beloved of the people.

Corbyn was probably really wearing corduroy dungarees covered with "Dig deep for the miners" stickers and a tie-dye T-shirt emblazoned with the face of Che Guevara.

 

I avoid ties except where essential, though Corbyn doesn't have my fat neck issues.

 

 

Can't believe people are genuinely vexed because he didn't sing the national anthem

 

 

They're not genuinely vexed. It's just a small building block in an attempted character assassination, just in case the new leftie leader threatens entrenched vested interests  (no pun intended).

 

If Corbyn had started bellowing out "God save our gracious Queen! Long live our noble Queen!", does anyone seriously believe that right-wing commentators would have applauded? Would today's papers be headlined "Corbyn's respect for the Queen"?

 

Maybe there's just a little chance that, if he'd sung up, the papers would have been headlined "Corbyn's Hypocrisy", with a list of the many occasions on which he has no doubt called for the abolition of the monarchy.

 

 

People should show respect for the beliefs of others without hypocritically pretending to support them. 6 years ago, I had a little dilemma like this. I flew out to Ireland for my uncle's funeral. All my extended family are Irish Catholics. I was offered the honour of giving a religious reading during the church funeral service, but turned it down, explaining that as a non-believer I'd have felt that I was disrespecting their genuine beliefs during an important ceremony. I'd have read a tribute to my uncle and was happy to dress smartly (tie firmly on fat neck) and stand respectfully when appropriate. Maybe I was over-thinking it and that was petty or pedantic of me? Nobody took offence, as far as I'm aware.

[davieG]

I'm  getting deja  vu,  it's  like a rerun of the Michael  Foot fashion revue.

 

Politics is so boring  and petty no wonder I've  long given up taking any sort of real interest or care.

[Guest MattP]

Hopefully at some point we will get to politics and not TV appearances, anthem singing or sandwich indulgence.

I do despair at the way we can get so distracted by trivial nonsense at the expense of actually understanding why Corbyn was elected and what it represents.

 

Hopefully we will, the attention really should be on this absolutely laughable shadow cabinet he has put together at the minute rather than what he is wearing or singing.

 

Unfortunately though attention will be played, this man is now applying to be the leader of the country and like any other job interview attention will be payed to how he dresses and behaves, we all make sure we look smart when we go for a job interview don't we? We try to speak properly, make sure we don't offend, at the minute all we can see is someone who can barely dress themselves and can't even be bothered to make an effort when attending what many would consider important state events.

 

I know he probably doesn't want to commemorate anything to do with Britain at war but if he wants to be PM that is going to be part of his job whether he likes it or not.

 

I don't sing  the anthem either. One I am an atheist and two she does not sing god save the pleb. I neither respect or disrespect the Queen but I would be hypocritical if I sang it in public. I have no problem with others singing it. 

 

 

Ken you aren't representing a political party that millions of people vote for, Corbyn wasn't there in a personal capacity yesterday, he was supposed to be representing the official oppsition to the government. If Labour want to put themselves forward as a anti Monarchist party by all means go for this sort of behaviour.

 

Quite a few Tories are also athiest and anti Royal, but they wouldn't turn up to an event and show such disrespect.

 

Out of curiosity, if a Muslim friend took you to a ceremony at their mosque, would you join in and shout "Allahu Akbar!" when the Imam indicated that it was the appropriate moment?  

 

Yesterday, he seemed to be wearing a smart suit and tie to the Battle of Britain commemoration, and smart-casual the rest of the day, with an open neck at the TUC. Seems reasonable.

 

Admittedly, that was on the BBC News, so it had probably been photoshopped by the gay, Islamist, anarcho-Trotskyist clique who use the BBC to dominate the national discourse and destroy the traditional values beloved of the people.

Corbyn was probably really wearing corduroy dungarees covered with "Dig deep for the miners" stickers and a tie-dye T-shirt emblazoned with the face of Che Guevara.

 

I avoid ties except where essential, though Corbyn doesn't have my fat neck issues.

 

 

They're not genuinely vexed. It's just a small building block in an attempted character assassination, just in case the new leftie leader threatens entrenched vested interests  (no pun intended).

 

If Corbyn had started bellowing out "God save our gracious Queen! Long live our noble Queen!", does anyone seriously believe that right-wing commentators would have applauded? Would today's papers be headlined "Corbyn's respect for the Queen"?

 

Maybe there's just a little chance that, if he'd sung up, the papers would have been headlined "Corbyn's Hypocrisy", with a list of the many occasions on which he has no doubt called for the abolition of the monarchy.

 

People should show respect for the beliefs of others without hypocritically pretending to support them. 6 years ago, I had a little dilemma like this. I flew out to Ireland for my uncle's funeral. All my extended family are Irish Catholics. I was offered the honour of giving a religious reading during the church funeral service, but turned it down, explaining that as a non-believer I'd have felt that I was disrespecting their genuine beliefs during an important ceremony. I'd have read a tribute to my uncle and was happy to dress smartly (tie firmly on fat neck) and stand respectfully when appropriate. Maybe I was over-thinking it and that was petty or pedantic of me? Nobody took offence, as far as I'm aware.

 

If I had accepted an invitation to a ceremony of religion yes I would be polite and say or sing whatever they asked of me, if I found what was being said or going to be said so offensive I wouldn't go in the first place. If it was a smart suit it certainly had been doctored, the picture I saw of him was with his top button down a jacket that barely fit him and a wonky tie, he looked like he had got dressed in the dark.

 

If he really is THAT offended by singing the national anthem then he really shouldn't be running for office of the country, it's a bunch of lyrics at the end of the day, singing it doesn't mean you are religious, it doesn't mean you really want god to save the queen, it's just a bit of respect for the event you are attending and for the country you are representing, I'm an athiest as well, I still sign hymns when I'm at a funeral, I'd respect a religious service in exactly the same way I would hope a religious person would respect an athiest service if I died, I'd be a bit miffed if they refuse to sing any songs just because they weren't what they considered proper religious funeral songs.

 

The most worrying thing is all the Corbynists seem to have in defence of this bloke and his behaviour is the right wing press, they are becoming like us Tories and the BBC but ten times worse, Eamonn Holmes has just had to bring it up on Sky News now as he said within a minute of them discussing Corbyn (and before anything negative had even been said) he had already recieved hundreds of tweets about how he had swallowed the Murdoch agenda, I know it's coming because I've read enough of his supporters views online but this paranoia is on a new level. It seems to have gone over their heads that Carole Malone in the Mirror was his most vocal opponent yesterday to the national anthem and even today's Independent is expressing unease at the way he is conducting himself, far as I'm aware neither of those can be put down to the right wing press.

[Guest MattP]

Owen Smith and Kate Green (both in his shadow canibet) have both called on him not to do this again and believe singing the anthem is "respectful, right and appropriate" at such an event.

 

Are these both part of the right wing Murdoch press as well?

[Claridge]

Owen Smith and Kate Green (both in his shadow canibet) have both called on him not to do this again and believe singing the anthem is "respectful, right and appropriate" at such an event.

 

Are these both part of the right wing Murdoch press as well?

Anyone against Corbyn must have read the Sun you know that.

I Don't think he should of sung the anthem if he didn't want to.

Whilst watching his TUC speech I was surprised at how dull and uninspiring Corbyn is when speaking.

[Guest MattP]

Anyone against Corbyn must have read the Sun you know that.

I Don't think he should of sung the anthem if he didn't want to.

Whilst watching his TUC speech I was surprised at how dull and uninspiring Corbyn is when speaking.

 

He's not actually great is he? Sure the converted will whoop and cheer of course but I don't really see him inspiring anyone else.

 

Mind you have a watch of Khan's speech if you want to see dull, bizzarely the biggest round of applause he got was when he announced that he was the son of immigrants, which probably tells you where the Labour party is at the minute.

[Bettsj2]

Anyone against Corbyn must have read the Sun you know that.

I Don't think he should of sung the anthem if he didn't want to.

Whilst watching his TUC speech I was surprised at how dull and uninspiring Corbyn is when speaking.

It wasnt just dull. He couldnt seem to get through a couple of paragraphs without stuttering or losing his words. It was as if he was a nervous wreck. Cameron will tear him apart at PMQ's.

Not singing the anthem isn't something that bothers me particularly. The only thing that people seem to universally respect about Corbyn is he sticks to his principles.

I originally thought that he'd be good in that he'd form an effective opposition and stir up a pretty shambolic party into a credible opposition. After his first few days already I'm beginning to think that I may as well just watch some re-runs of Citizen Smith.

[Babylon]

Bloke looks like he stinks of coffee and fags, like your old history teacher from school.

 

I think it's interesting having him there now. I have no affiliation to any party, but I think to the man on the street it really seemed like they were all far to close together in what they had to say on many of the big issues. It was like picking between the Tories, Tory Lite and Tory Zero.

 

Someone with something completely different to say could stand out to a lot of people. I've only seen a couple of interviews and what he has to say seemed quite interesting, zero idea whether what he says would work economically though.

[Buce]

There is nothing 'national' about the national anthem: it's nothing more than a sycophantic eulogy to a hereditary, unelected head of state.

Welcome to the new world - we finally have an honest politician who stands by his principles.

[Guest MattP]

There is nothing 'national' about the national anthem: it's nothing more than a sycophantic eulogy to a hereditory, unelected head of state.

Welcome to the new world - we finally have an honest politician who stands by his principles.

 

Just out of interest, you do realise he's accepted the invitation to kneel before the Queen and kiss her hand so he can join the privvy council?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11865217/Jeremy-Corbyn-the-republican-agrees-to-kneel-before-the-Queen.html

[Alf Bentley]

If I had accepted an invitation to a ceremony of religion yes I would be polite and say or sing whatever they asked of me, if I found what was being said or going to be said so offensive I wouldn't go in the first place. If it was a smart suit it certainly had been doctored, the picture I saw of him was with his top button down a jacket that barely fit him and a wonky tie, he looked like he had got dressed in the dark.

 

If he really is THAT offended by singing the national anthem then he really shouldn't be running for office of the country, it's a bunch of lyrics at the end of the day, singing it doesn't mean you are religious, it doesn't mean you really want god to save the queen, it's just a bit of respect for the event you are attending and for the country you are representing, I'm an athiest as well, I still sign hymns when I'm at a funeral, I'd respect a religious service in exactly the same way I would hope a religious person would respect an athiest service if I died, I'd be a bit miffed if they refuse to sing any songs just because they weren't what they considered proper religious funeral songs.

 

The most worrying thing is all the Corbynists seem to have in defence of this bloke and his behaviour is the right wing press, they are becoming like us Tories and the BBC but ten times worse, Eamonn Holmes has just had to bring it up on Sky News now as he said within a minute of them discussing Corbyn (and before anything negative had even been said) he had already recieved hundreds of tweets about how he had swallowed the Murdoch agenda, I know it's coming because I've read enough of his supporters views online but this paranoia is on a new level. It seems to have gone over their heads that Carole Malone in the Mirror was his most vocal opponent yesterday to the national anthem and even today's Independent is expressing unease at the way he is conducting himself, far as I'm aware neither of those can be put down to the right wing press.

 

 

Neat sidestepping of my first question. Maybe you should stand in for Cameron at PMQs, Matt.  

If invited to a routine Islamic (not Islamist) ceremony, would you show respect by singing or reciting verses praising Allah and his prophet Mohammed, as you would singing hymns to God and Christ at a Christian ceremony?

 

As a fellow atheist, I wouldn't be miffed if I chose the Sex Pistols' version of God Save the Queen for my funeral and Christians or royalists didn't sing along. I'd be happy for them to stand in silent respect. 

 

To me, Corbyn looked respectfully smart at the Battle of Britain ceremony. I suspect most fair-minded people would agree, but might be wrong about that.

We're obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum re. sartorial elegance. I'd consider myself dressed for public presentation provided that I had my underpants on and had shaved within the last 3 days; you'd consider yourself publicly disgraced if you left the house without your monocle and diamond cuff links.  

 

The lyrics of the national anthem is an interesting one. Imagine that a Labour government legislated to change the lyrics to "God save the BBC; Allah, multicultural harmony; No monarchy; Dawkins victorious; President Brown reigns over us; He sends us benefits; Let's tax the rich" ( ). Would lefties then be justified in slating any Tory politicians for not singing along?

 

I just checked the history of the national anthem's lyrics. According to Wiki, they were first sung in 1745 after Bonnie Prince Charlie's troops had defeated King George II's army at the Battle of Prestonpans. So, the current anthem has only been around for 270 years. Maybe the lyrics should be changed to embrace our less religious, less conquering nation; the majority are still pretty royalist but maybe they'd generously allow references to the Queen to be replaced by "the people" or something....

 

Point taken that the right-wing press is not as powerful an influence as some think, but it's worth noting their utter hypocrisy: you know as well as I do that if Corbyn had sung the anthem, they'd have lambasted him for hypocrisy, as a declared republican. Would you not have done so yourself? Are you really saying that you'd have come on here and praised Corbyn for his respect in singing the national anthem? 

[Guest MattP]

Yes as I've said whether it was Allah, Buddha, Guru Nanak if I had chosen to go to a ceremony I would respect and speak and sing whatever that event was about, that's a pretty basic show of respect for me. If I'm going to a religious event I expect it to be me who shows his tolerance towards the hosts, not me to make some personal protest and expect the host to tolerate it. I'll say again, if I had that much of a problem with it I simply wouldn't go.

 

Would he have been accused of hypocrisy? I don't know, possinly, maybe we'll find out next time as I imagine he'll be singing it next time, I would really hope the press would never criticise someone for signing their own national anthem though, even if they do hate the country.

 

Did he look smart? I don't think so, look at the shirt and tie and top button. Hideous. Each to their own though. I feel sorry for him looking at this picture, he looks out of place.

 

[Babylon]

Didn't do his top button up... total disrespect for the war hero's. Should have gone the full Cameron.

 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Didn't do his top button up... total disrespect for the war hero's. Should have gone the full Cameron.

 

Didn't anything about "total disrespect for the war hero's" -  just said I didn't think it looked smart. Anyway PMQ's in an hour, the serious stuff so let's get back to politics, no more slander about appearance from me.

 

[yorkie1999]

Didn't anything about "total disrespect for the war hero's" -  just said I didn't think it looked smart. Anyway PMQ's in an hour, the serious stuff so let's get back to politics, no more slander about appearance from me.

 

Jamie Vardy and the labour party.

[Guest MattP]

For what it's worth I don't always do my top button up either when wearing a suit, but I certainly would if I was going to be seen by millions of people and was attending a state event.

[Alf Bentley]

Yes as I've said whether it was Allah, Buddha, Guru Nanak if I had chosen to go to a ceremony I would respect and speak and sing whatever that event was about, that's a pretty basic show of respect for me. If I'm going to a religious event I expect it to be me who shows his tolerance towards the hosts, not me to make some personal protest and expect the host to tolerate it. I'll say again, if I had that much of a problem with it I simply wouldn't go.

 

Would he have been accused of hypocrisy? I don't know, possinly, maybe we'll find out next time as I imagine he'll be singing it next time, I would really hope the press would never criticise someone for signing their own national anthem though, even if they do hate the country.

 

Did he look smart? I don't think so, look at the shirt and tie and top button. Hideous. Each to their own though. I feel sorry for him looking at this picture, he looks out of place.

 

 

 

Agree to disagree re. "respect". For me, dressing reasonably smartly and standing in silent, unostentatious respect is enough, while chanting words you don't believe in trivialises them and insults true believers (though I don't really take it as seriously as that sounds!).That's one pretty unexceptional photo (and we know what 1 photo can do - thinking of Ed's bacon sarnie). I saw the BBC News footage and Corbyn looked perfectly respectable and respectful to me, but.....

 

We clearly do have different standards on dress, so agree to disagree on that, too.

 

He doesn't "hate the country" because he wants to change it, any more than Thatcher "hated the country" when she arrived on the scene wanting to change things.

[Claridge]

There is nothing 'national' about the national anthem: it's nothing more than a sycophantic eulogy to a hereditary, unelected head of state.

Welcome to the new world - we finally have an honest politician who stands by his principles.

 

Just out of interest, you do realise he's accepted the invitation to kneel before the Queen and kiss her hand so he can join the privvy council?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11865217/Jeremy-Corbyn-the-republican-agrees-to-kneel-before-the-Que

 

There is nothing 'national' about the national anthem: it's nothing more than a sycophantic eulogy to a hereditary, unelected head of state.

Welcome to the new world - we finally have an honest politician who stands by his principles.

Why has he employed a load of greasy pole climbers in his shadow cabinet then?

[Guest MattP]

Little interview on BBC just now with him regarding yesterday.

 

Was asked twice if he would sing it next time and just wouldn't answer the question.

[Alf Bentley]

Why has he employed a load of greasy pole climbers in his shadow cabinet then?

 

 

Because there aren't enough left-wing Labour MPs (about 20?) to fill a shadow cabinet, even if all of them had the capacity to serve at that level.

 

It's public knowledge that he has very little natural support among Labour MPs, but won because he attracted massive support from Labour Party members/sympathisers.

 

He'd claim that he wanted a "broad church", covering all views within the party, and hopefully that's essentially true.....but I'm sure there'd be a few more left-wing shadow ministers if they were available in parliament.

 

 

Meanwhile, for light relief, here's a politician showing his respect for a national anthem by joining in... 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc

[Rincewind]

The privy council story has been shown to be false. It was published in the Sun I believe.

[Guest MattP]

 

That John Redwood video is absolutely brilliant , what an absolute tool he was, to think he was nearly leader.

The privy council story has been shown to be false. It was published in the Sun I believe.

 

No it hasn't at all, Corbyn has accepted his invitation, it's in pretty much all the papers.

[The Blur]

 

That John Redwood video is absolutely brilliant , what an absolute tool he was, to think he was nearly leader.

 

No it hasn't at all, Corbyn has accepted his invitation, it's in pretty much all the papers.

 

 

I think he was referring to the fact that Corbyn has to kiss Queen's hand to be allowed in.