The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[lifted*fox]

It's blinkered to say that everyone voting to leave is xenophobic / racist.

 

It's equally blinkered to say that nobody voting to leave is xenophobic / racist.

 

Without a doubt though, there are LOTS of people who will be voting leave because they have built a fantasy in their mind of a time when Britain was great, before all those 'bloody immigrants ruined our great country'. That time didn't exist - but it makes for a great excuse as to why their own lives aren't playing out how they'd like them to. 

[Strokes]

Its funny that the leave side is so heavy weighted with knuckledraggers, thickos, bigots, racists and the unintelligent and that those passing scorn on such people are usually the first to jump to there defence, when their benefits get stopped, for being generally retarded.

[The Guvnor]

Its funny that the leave side is so heavy weighted with knuckledraggers, thickos, bigots, racists and the unintelligent and that those passing scorn on such people are usually the first to jump to there defence, when their benefits get stopped, for being generally retarded.

 

But they can spell

[lifted*fox]

I've read and reread that post several times and I can't figure out for the life of me what the point is?

[Alf Bentley]

Someone else said it a few pages back, but what this referendum has highlighted to me is that the number of people wanting to leave the EU for genuine economical / political reasons seem to be far outweighed by the number people wanting to leave for soundbite reasons such 'we want our country back' and 'it would make Britain great again'. Such sentences are just words that don't mean anything - they have no weight behind them. It's people grasping onto a dream, an ideology that never actually existed - because it appears easier to shake everything up, have mass-change when you feel that something isn't to your liking. It's quite amazing how many people think an exit from the EU would be a fresh start for the UK, we'd all suddenly have loads of excess money and all of our services would immediately get better. Everyone will hang England flags from their front windows and we'll all go walking down our predominantly white, British high-streets on Saturday morning to buy British only produce from the farmer's market and watch people take part in Morris Dancing and other such Great British pastimes. It'll be "good 'ol Blighty, just the way I remember it!". 

 

Well, it won't be, at all, really.

 

What you will have though is a British Government free to do what the hell they like, with no restrictions or input from anyone else. That £350 million a week we spend on EU membership won't be going into your pocket, or your local hospital, or your schools. It'll be siphoned off somewhere else by politicians who have nobody to watch over them or tell them what to do. I very much doubt a vote to leave will mean total disaster, we see other countries who manage outside of the EU, but it won't be the bed of roses everyone looking at through their white and red tinted glasses is expecting - at all.

 

The fact we've even got to the stage where we've having to let actual citizens decide on the economic future of this country is alarming in itself. Even more alarming is the sheer number of people who are going to be voting based on 'passion' and 'pride' and not taking into account the financial and economic implications that staying or leaving will bring about. Both campaigns have been a complete shambles and I'll be honest in admitting that I'm still on the fence and it hasn't been helped by the huge amounts of non-information, misinformation and quite disgusting propaganda on offer - from both sides.

 

If I can't make a well informed decision then it's quite frankly worrying that on Thursday there will be thousands of British people out there who are even less well-equipped than myself with a pen in their hand making a decision they know very little about. 

 

 

In case it helps, here's a Professor of European Law talking about what would happen in the event of Brexit. It lasts 24 minutes, but is well worth it as a counterweight to all the biased bullshit from both campaigns. He's pro-Remain, so some people will dismiss him as biased - but he's arguing from a position of professional knowledge (and would presumably be discredited professionally if he was talking bollocks):

 

 

As a counter-balance, here's the article from the Guardian Economics Editor arguing in favour of Brexit from a Left perspective, due to the current dysfunctionality of the Eurozone. This is very much the stance that had me considering a Leave vote, as it's quite clear that the Eurozone is struggling economically and has voluntarily got itself into an economic policy straitjacket that could lead somewhere very bad. I've come to the conclusion, though, that the EU/Eurozone could potentially escape that doom through reform.....whereas Brexit probably takes us somewhere very bad with a lot less hope of escape:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/20/brexit-best-answer-to-dying-eurozone-eu-undemocratic-elite

 

Nothing much about immigration in either of these contributions, but I know others will have their say about that.

[Strokes]

But they can spell

and use punctuation.

[lifted*fox]

Thank you for that, I'll be sure to read / watch and take into consideration. 

 

Immigration isn't too much of an issue for me with regards this referendum - the economy and effect on business is more of a concern. 

 

I'm not particularly a fan of putting people into 'classes' but I guess I would be considered middle-class. I can't say that immigration has particularly affected me in any negative ways during my lifetime. I live in Leicester, a city which, in my honest opinion is enriched due to it's multiculturalism. I understand our schools / hospitals and various other services are apparently 'over-stretched' due to immigration but I see this as a failing of our Government to properly prepare for their arrival in numbers here as opposed to them arriving here altogether. I welcome anyone to this country who needs respite from war or wishes to come here and make a positive impact on our society.

 

I think the EU has many faults and does need serious reform, but a united Europe has more clout and power than our small island will have on it's own. It's wonderful for people to look back and say things like 'we had an empire once you know - we used to run half the world', etc. etc. but that is NEVER going to happen again. I'm pretty certain our country is better off as a part of something bigger, rather than trying to go it alone. We will still tow the line with the rest of Europe anyway, except we will be seen as the country trying to 'tag along' if we leave the EU rather than being a part of it. 

 

Hmm. 

[johnny the fox]

Its funny that the leave side is so heavy weighted with knuckledraggers, thickos, bigots, racists and the unintelligent and that those passing scorn on such people are usually the first to jump to there defence, when their benefits get stopped, for being generally retarded.

Thank you for that wonderful well considered and erudite contribution..

[The Guvnor]

and use punctuation.

 

Capital A for and please, now go and sit in the corner with a road cone on your head.

[Buce]

I've read and reread that post several times and I can't figure out for the life of me what the point is?

Really?

It makes sense to me.

[lifted*fox]

Really?

It makes sense to me.

 

Strokes' post? Yeah man, I can't figure out what point he's trying to make, genuinely. 

 

EDIT: I'm not being condescending but it's a badly written sentence and I can't get my head around what he's trying to say because of it. 

[Buce]

Capital A for and please, now go and sit in the corner with a road cone on your head.

Addressing his point might be better than nit-picking his spelling, do you not think? It's a discussion about the Referendum, not an English exam.

[Buce]

Strokes' post? Yeah man, I can't figure out what point he's trying to make, genuinely.

He's pointing out the double standards of some of us on the left. Actually, inconsistency is a better word.

[Strokes]

Strokes' post? Yeah man, I can't figure out what point he's trying to make, genuinely.

I'm saying these people that are being attacked, as not worthy of an opinion because they are too stupid too understand. Are the same people some of you defend on a regular basis, for usually displaying the same traits.

[lifted*fox]

EDIT: Thanks! 

 

I thought that's what you meant but wasn't sure.

[bovril]

Its funny that the leave side is so heavy weighted with knuckledraggers, thickos, bigots, racists and the unintelligent and that those passing scorn on such people are usually the first to jump to there defence, when their benefits get stopped, for being generally retarded.

 

This is true actually.

 

It's also hilarious to see Tories who usually deride these people as lazy, feckless and happy to live off benefits, start describing them as salt of the Earth, honest hard-working tax payers who should vote out.

 

Basically, everyone shits on the working class until they need their votes.

[The Guvnor]

Its funny that the leave side is so heavy weighted with knuckledraggers, thickos, bigots, racists and the unintelligent and that those passing scorn on such people are usually the first to jump to there defence, when their benefits get stopped, for being generally retarded.

 

 

But they can spell

 

 

and use punctuation.

 

 

Capital A for and please, now go and sit in the corner with a road cone on your head.

 

 

Addressing his point might be better than nit-picking his spelling, do you not think? It's a discussion about the Referendum, not an English exam.

 

There you go, you obviously had not read the previous posts. If strokes really believes that he is deluded.

[Strokes]

It's the working and welfare classes that generally speaking live amongst the migrants and it is generally these that are displaying the xenophobic nature. Why are we dismissing these people as irrelavent now, that it doesn't fit the agenda.

[Buce]

There you go, you obviously had not read the previous posts. If strokes really believes that he is deluded.

Actually, I think he has a point.

[lifted*fox]

Basically, everyone shits on the working class until they need their votes.

 

Hasn't that always been the way? 

[Buce]

Hasn't that always been the way?

Yep.

[Webbo]

I'm working class and I don't feel shat upon, patronised but not shat upon.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I must give Corybn his due (question & answer session on Sky News), in this setting he's an interesting politican to listen too and I'd hope everyone could respect how knowledgable he is on subjects and what a considered view he brings to a debate - it's anything but party lines.

Of course, the downside is that as a party leader your personal beliefs and positions tend to get watered down due to the need to appeal to the broader church of your party and the general public (too many people have been conditioned to be influenced by short, sound bite politics, which is why this method endures) - and that means he's unlikely to ever be Prime Minister.

Yet, whether you agree with him or not, one thing he does do is make you think and that can only be a good thing.

[lifted*fox]

What even is working-class? I honestly think the whole 'class' terminology is ****ing outdated and condescending tbh.

[johnny the fox]

It's the working and welfare classes that generally speaking live amongst the migrants and it is generally these that are displaying the xenophobic nature. Why are we dismissing these people as irrelavent now, that it doesn't fit the agenda.

unfortunately this is true Cameron was asked how many refugees was his constituency going to take ..he admitted none.. he claimed they would be better off in areas where there were already a number so it would be easier for new ones to assimilate... I would take the so called compassion from some more seriously when you see the leafy suburbs and areas like westminster and park lane gladly taking their share of the refugee burden...