The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Webbo]

What even is working-class? I honestly think the whole 'class' terminology is ****ing outdated and condescending tbh.

I agree. We're all individuals. The idea that the demographic you come from defines your opinions and prospects in life is a little bit offensive to me.

[Wymsey]

It's all about having a decent personality, and trying to successfully defeat any challenges in your path in life.

Finance is just a lump of sum, literally, and not experience.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Know your place!

[Strokes]

I'm working class and I don't feel shat upon, patronised but not shat upon.

This is true actually.

 

It's also hilarious to see Tories who usually deride these people as lazy, feckless and happy to live off benefits, start describing them as salt of the Earth, honest hard-working tax payers who should vote out.

 

Basically, everyone shits on the working class until they need their votes.

I'm not likely to point out my own hypocracy am I?

Look I'm not claiming to defend people that are racist or generally cùnts but it seems to be an opinion that if you are poor and uneducated and worried about immigration, it can be dismissed because it's bound to be racist. Maybe it is racist but why do we have this resentment and should we allow it to habour with out discussing it? Why are these people feelings and emotions any less important over this than when they are choosing whether to eat, or put on their heating? We are all entitilled to one vote and these people's voice should be heard like the rest of ours, even if they are lazy, secretly a bit xenophobic or a bit thick. It's not like this is trait unique to the white man. People of people of all colours and creeds are worried about immigration.

It's seems a bit champagne socialist to care about the men at the bottom but then when it comes to the crunch back the money.

[The Guvnor]

Actually, I think he has a point.

 

 

Well I think maybe he should have chosen his words a little more carefully, its made him sound a tw*t.

[Thracian]

What even is working-class? I honestly think the whole 'class' terminology is ****ing outdated and condescending tbh.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. 

[Strokes]

Well I think maybe he should have chosen his words a little more carefully, its made him sound a tw*t.

Why does it touch a nerve? All you have done is pick up on spelling, basically be a twát.

[BlueSi13]

I'm a solid OUT and if that happens I'm confident those that worried about leaving will be very pleased with how well we cope 'outside' Europe and indeed prosper as a country.

 

No idea which way it will go as there is so much scare mongering and b*llox being talked on both sides that peoples heads are being well and truly messed with.   A taxi driver yesterday told me she was voting to stay in cus she didn't know what was best but  "You've got to vote haven't you" ....    so thats my vote cancelled out. 

 

This is a one time opportunity and I hope we don't fvck it up.

 

 

Maybe it's been the murder of Jo Cox or blind panic setting in, but the Remain establishment have suddenly felt emboldened to attack Leave as stunningly racist, xenophobic and/or bigoted.  Indeed I've never seen such disgraceful accusations thrown around so wildly and with such frequency.

 

Since the polls shifted toward Brexit, the tactics from the Remain camp have been absolutely horrifying and if they think that victory on Friday will spell the end of this, they're wrong.  The legacy of what they have had to resort to to ensure victory will live long in the memories of people for years to come.

 

If Cameron and Osborne do not resign on Friday then the subsequent Conservative civil war will put them back 20 years IMO.

[Buce]

Well I think maybe he should have chosen his words a little more carefully, its made him sound a tw*t.

Correcting his spelling didn't exactly cover you in glory, tbf.

[lifted*fox]

.

[lifted*fox]

We are all entitilled to one vote and these people's voice should be heard like the rest of ours, even if they are lazy, secretly a bit xenophobic or a bit thick.

 

I just think that those 'lazy, secretly xenophobic, bit thick' people need educating that immigration isn't the main cause of their problems. Surely if they're going to be angry at someone they should be angry at the right people? It's all a bit 'tin-hat' but it's our government who have let immigration spiral out of control with no system to slow it down or be selective. Do you think that has happened by accident? I don't. People (perhaps less educated people, anyway) don't blame the government for immigration, they instead aim their hatred at their Black, Asian, Chinese neighbours. The same people who teach their kids, cook their Saturday night takeaway, clean their toilets at work. But Joe Bloggs in his council house wouldn't be any better off if it was some white guy living next to him instead of 'that ****ing immigrant' - it makes no difference but he doesn't get that. Hatred between people stops people from focusing their hatred on the government. 

[lifted*fox]

Couldn't agree more. 

 

It's just terminology used by the government / media to keep us all judging / hating one another instead of working together. Keeps the masses easier to control when they're divided into nice little compartmental groups. 

[Thracian]

 

And your point, Colin?

[Buce]

I just think that those 'lazy, secretly xenophobic, bit thick' people need educating that immigration isn't the main cause of their problems. Surely if they're going to be angry at someone they should be angry at the right people? It's all a bit 'tin-hat' but it's our government who have let immigration spiral out of control with no system to slow it down or be selective. Do you think that has happened by accident? I don't. People (perhaps less educated people, anyway) don't blame the government for immigration, they instead aim their hatred at their Black, Asian, Chinese neighbours. The same people who teach their kids, cook their Saturday night takeaway, clean their toilets at work. But Joe Bloggs in his council house wouldn't be any better off if it was some white guy living next to him instead of 'that ****ing immigrant' - it makes no difference but he doesn't get that. Hatred between people stops people from focusing their hatred on the government.

Divide and rule.

It's the Tory way.

[Strokes]

I just think that those 'lazy, secretly xenophobic, bit thick' people need educating that immigration isn't the main cause of their problems. Surely if they're going to be angry at someone they should be angry at the right people? It's all a bit 'tin-hat' but it's our government who have let immigration spiral out of control with no system to slow it down or be selective. Do you think that has happened by accident? I don't. People (perhaps less educated people, anyway) don't blame the government for immigration, they instead aim their hatred at their Black, Asian, Chinese neighbours. The same people who teach their kids, cook their Saturday night takeaway, clean their toilets at work. But Joe Bloggs in his council house wouldn't be any better off if it was some white guy living next to him instead of 'that ****ing immigrant' - it makes no difference but he doesn't get that. Hatred between people stops people from focusing their hatred on the government.

Do I think it's happened by accident? No, the free movement of people act wasn't to liberate the poor. Successive governments have overlooked this migration wave, hating the government has got them nowhere. They are maybe looking to stick two fingers up at them. Like I say I'm not defending the racism but I find strange that people are so quick to dismiss a large portion of people as irrelevant, when normally they can't wait to defend them. Quite often they are reading between the lines to conclude racism.

[Thracian]

Horrible stuff, seen more and more of this over the last few days, I can see why they are doing it though, it's working.

 

Such utter garbage. It bothers me to even think we have councillors with such a blinkered, self-deluding mentality.  

[Webbo]

I just think that those 'lazy, secretly xenophobic, bit thick' people need educating that immigration isn't the main cause of their problems. Surely if they're going to be angry at someone they should be angry at the right people? It's all a bit 'tin-hat' but it's our government who have let immigration spiral out of control with no system to slow it down or be selective. Do you think that has happened by accident? I don't. People (perhaps less educated people, anyway) don't blame the government for immigration, they instead aim their hatred at their Black, Asian, Chinese neighbours. The same people who teach their kids, cook their Saturday night takeaway, clean their toilets at work. But Joe Bloggs in his council house wouldn't be any better off if it was some white guy living next to him instead of 'that ****ing immigrant' - it makes no difference but he doesn't get that. Hatred between people stops people from focusing their hatred on the government. 

Why say black, Asian, Chinese when the immigration in question is white Christian?

 

It's a fact that the huge influx of people has suppressed wages and that affects people at the lower end of the scale. The huge numbers coming in means our infrastructure can't cope, not just schools and hospitals but our roads and housing stock. It's changing the country permanently and not 1 person in the country has been asked if that's what they want.

 

There are pluses and minuses to immigration, the fact that it is imposed upon us with no chance to hold the decision makers to account is what offends me.

[lifted*fox]

Should we be having a referendum on immigration then, not being a member of the EU? Because trust me, a LOT of people voting leave are doing so (with racist / xenophobic intent or not) because of their views on immigration.

[Thracian]

Xenophobia at its absolute finest.

 

 

 

Such a trite and totally ignorant comment but explain your standpoint by all means.

[Innovindil]

Should we be having a referendum on immigration then, not being a member of the EU? Because trust me, a LOT of people voting leave are doing so (with racist / xenophobic intent or not) because of their views on immigration.

Can you even have one without the other?

We have vote for immigration - unanimously vote we don't want it.

"tough, you're in Europe, open boarders for you"

"k"

[Strokes]

Should we be having a referendum on immigration then, not being a member of the EU? Because trust me, a LOT of people voting leave are doing so (with racist / xenophobic intent or not) because of their views on immigration.

Just because it's not as important to me and you from our ivory towers, doesn't mean it's not affecting people. It's an important issue to them.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Why say black, Asian, Chinese when the immigration in question is white Christian?

 

It's a fact that the huge influx of people has suppressed wages and that affects people at the lower end of the scale. The huge numbers coming in means our infrastructure can't cope, not just schools and hospitals but our roads and housing stock. It's changing the country permanently and not 1 person in the country has been asked if that's what they want.

 

There are pluses and minuses to immigration, the fact that it is imposed upon us with no chance to hold the decision makers to account is what offends me.

Can I just check...

Do you not think the NHS could have been effected by staffing shortages, the increased life expectancy of our population, the increase in obesity amongst our population, the increase of general stress within society, the increase and wider recognition of mental health in our society, the advancement of science (so we know more and can do more with medicine) and various other factors?

And housing - might there be problems with a lack of building at ground level and the growing trend of people to buy houses to let, leading to several self made landlords holding a string of properties that gives them ever increasing income allowing to hover up new housing opportunities quickly as well?

Roads? Well what was the one car family could having anything between 2 and 4 these days?

School places - isn't this more of an issue of good schools being over-subscribed because there are too many poor standard / undesirable schools?

Wages - I'll come back on.

But to suggest one area is a cause of all ills is silly - and I say this because many won't, I sense we actually need the level of immigration at the moment to balance the difficulties we will face with public expenditure in the next 10-20 years.

[lifted*fox]

Strokes, I think you've misunderstood my post. I'm saying that immigration is the main reason some people are voting to leave the EU and they aren't quite on the ball enough to understand the other implications of being in/out of the EU. People are voting on immigration, a subject which clearly gets them thinking with their pride/passion hat on and not their thinking cap.

Oh, and I'm certainly not sat in an ivory tower .

[Strokes]

Can I just check...

Do you not think the NHS could have been effected by staffing shortages, the increased life expectancy of our population, the increase in obesity amongst our population, the increase of general stress within society, the increase and wider recognition of mental health in our society, the advancement of science (so we know more and can do more with medicine) and various other factors?

And housing - might there be problems with a lack of building at ground level and the growing trend of people to buy houses to let, leading to several self made landlords holding a string of properties that gives them ever increasing income allowing to hover up new housing opportunities quickly as well?

Roads? Well what was the one car family could having anything between 2 and 4 these days?

School places - isn't this more of an issue of good schools being over-subscribed because there are too many poor standard / undesirable schools?

Wages - I'll come back on.

But to suggest one area is a cause of all ills is silly - and I say this because many won't, I sense we actually need the level of immigration at the moment to balance the difficulties we will face with public expenditure in the next 10-20 years.

But we don't get a chance to vote on these other reasons that add to the overcrowding/poor conditions, we can vote on this one.

Strokes, I think you've misunderstood my post. I'm saying that immigration is the main reason some people are voting to leave the EU and they aren't quite on the ball enough to understand the other implications of being in/out of the EU. People are voting on immigration, a subject which clearly gets them thinking with their pride/passion hat on and not their thinking cap.

Oh, and I'm certainly not sat in an ivory tower .

Oh fair enough, you are just patronising then

[DJ Barry Hammond]

But we don't get a chance to vote on these other reasons that add to the overcrowding/poor conditions, we can vote on this one.

Oh fair enough, you are just patronising then

That's what an elections for? All of those things are determined by domestic policy.