Alton Towers "crash"

[ADK]

I suppose the park will have insurance to cover the personal injury liability. The real danger from the business perspective is the damage to reputation and consumer confidence.

[Kitchandro]

Fvcking horrific.

 

I've been going on rollercoasters since I was tall enough. I've been on them in Italy, where they're notoriously poor when it comes to safety. But I've almost always felt safe on them in England, we're so obsessed with health and safety. This is a real eye-opener, of all the places in the world, Alton Towers, the biggest theme park in Britain, is the last place I'd expect something like this to happen.

 

The last time I was there the Smiler shut down. I didn't trust it then as I'd heard about the wheels flying off and people being upside down, parts of the track falling off etc. I'm surprised it hasn't been shut down before this.

 

If they ever open it again, which arguably they shouldn't, there obviously needs to be some major changes to make sure this can't happen again.

[benpicko]

Not sure if posted but this seems like it may have been what's happened:

 

 

Absorbed a lot of news on this and a few interviews with guests, here is what I think happened (mostly guess work):

• Ride had been experiencing problems all day
• Ride is fixed and staff send round a few test cars
• Cars aren't counted back in, one car doesn't make it round a loop and comes to rest at the bottom of a piece of track
• Staff assume all is well and sends a car full of people
• The automated safety system doesn't allow the car to proceed because it knows a car is still somewhere on the track between brake points (in an interview someone said the car that crashed was waiting at the top of the big drop for 5-10 minutes)
• Staff assume it's an error on the safety system and somehow override it
• Safety system is reset and assumes no cars are on the track, it sends the car waiting on the big drop

[lavrentis]

The ride is insanely good, the best ride at Alton Towers (possibly the country).

 

Still, if the rumours about 4 double leg amputees is true, and them being kids then ****. Can't see this reopening

[The Horse's Mouth]

Stupid as it stands I've got more scared with the older I've got. As a kid I loved them nowadays I'm always thinking of the worse when queuing up.

ignorance is bliss 

[Harry - LCFC]

I think this is the only theme park accident I've heard of in my life so I would imagine these incidents are exceptionally uncommon.

 

Demanding that the park be shut down will mean vast numbers of people can't enjoy themselves as they want to. Get rid of that ride specifically as it's obviously a problem but don't ruin everyone else's experience by being so reactionary.

 

Should paintballing, skiing and extreme sports be banned also? I'd imagine the death and injury rates for those activities is even higher

[lavrentis]

I think this is the only theme park accident I've heard of in my life so I would imagine these incidents are exceptionally uncommon.

 

Demanding that the park be shut down will mean vast numbers of people can't enjoy themselves as they want to. Get rid of that ride specifically as it's obviously a problem but don't ruin everyone else's experience by being so reactionary.

 

Should paintballing, skiing and extreme sports be banned also? I'd imagine the death and injury rates for those activities is even higher

 

Alton Towers wont shut down but its a possibility The Smiler might.

 

It has been riddled with problems since it opened and this will only harm its reputation.

[Hollism]

Not sure if posted but this seems like it may have been what's happened:

Yeah I saw that on Reddit. I have no idea if it's even possible for that to happen, but if the circumstances are even remotely close to that then Merlin will have a colossal law suit on their hands.

[benpicko]

Yeah I saw that on Reddit. I have no idea if it's even possible for that to happen, but if the circumstances are even remotely close to that then Merlin will have a colossal law suit on their hands.

 

Yeah, I've just been reading and apparently there was a video shown on the BBC earlier showing the loaded carriage stopped on the lift hill for several minutes before finally being allowed to continue despite the empty carriage being stuck. Apparently people were trying to make it known that the empty carriage was stuck but weren't listened to. If that is what happened, that's horrendous.

[Webbo]

I seriously doubt it. £18million is far too much money to piss away.

I imagine the park won't reopen for a little while, and I wouldn't be surprised if The Smiler didn't reopen for the rest of the season. There's been far too much press for them to rush it back open.

By the time they've paid the fines, compensation and legal fees there won't be much change from £18million.

[MrSpaM]

Been on the ride once when it first opened. I'm just baffled by the fact it didn't seem to have any warnings that a carriage was stuck on the track, and that if a collision did happen, why the carriages didn't have some sort of protection on the front and back. I know it's easy to say this after something dreadful like this happens but surely it's thought about when designing the ride. It seems like the second carriage was sent when the park staff were being warned there was already a carriage stuck on the tracks, which would make you think somebody, somewhere had to hit a button to make the second carriage start moving, wouldn't like to be that person right now.

[Footballwipe]

Looks like this is gonna rumble on for a while. Massive compensation payouts and if the negligence is as bad as it being rumoured or specualted there could be some sever punishments coming for the staff manning that ride.

 

Have to say that all the noises coming from the top level staff today from Merlin has been great too. Not clamming up and releasing a generic statement.

[ramboacdc]

Closed tomorrow but I did think they'd keep closed for most of the week at the very least.

apologies i was quoting from alton towers twitter around 4pmish. i think as more of the story developed they decided to close it all. 

[AndWhat?]

Being able to manually override an automatic safety system shouldn't be possible when it comes to things like this. 

 

The Smiler is probably my favourite ever roller coaster at Alton Towers as well. Genuinely reckon I'd think twice about going to Alton Towers again now.   

[ramboacdc]

Not sure if posted but this seems like it may have been what's happened:

 

if this is what comes out then people will go to prison.

[stripeyfox]

I think this is the only theme park accident I've heard of in my life so I would imagine these incidents are exceptionally uncommon.

Demanding that the park be shut down will mean vast numbers of people can't enjoy themselves as they want to. Get rid of that ride specifically as it's obviously a problem but don't ruin everyone else's experience by being so reactionary.

Should paintballing, skiing and extreme sports be banned also? I'd imagine the death and injury rates for those activities is even higher

There have been plenty of theme park/coaster accidents over the years, but you are correct to say that they are rare.

This one seems to have been very nasty, and it sounds like there could have been an element of human error. It should simply not be possible for this to happen. Either a computer fail safe system failed - which is terrifying enough in itself, or human intervention overrode the safety system which is probably even more terrifying!

I don't know the configuration of the ride cars (are the passengers sitting?, how/where does the safety bar fit on the passengers), but it sounds like severe crushing to lower limbs has been involved.

As mentioned by somebody else, this could cost the company millions in compensation. They are no doubt adequately insured for the liability.

Of course, most importantly, thoughts are with those injured. Must have been absolutely agonising to be involved in an accident like this and then wait a long time for rescue.

[VLC86]

There have been plenty of theme park/coaster accidents over the years, but you are correct to say that they are rare.

This one seems to have been very nasty, and it sounds like there could have been an element of human error. It should simply not be possible for this to happen. Either a computer fail safe system failed - which is terrifying enough in itself, or human intervention overrode the safety system which is probably even more terrifying!

I don't know the configuration of the ride cars (are the passengers sitting?, how/where does the safety bar fit on the passengers), but it sounds like severe crushing to lower limbs has been involved.

As mentioned by somebody else, this could cost the company millions in compensation. They are no doubt adequately insured for the liability.

Of course, most importantly, thoughts are with those injured. Must have been absolutely agonising to be involved in an accident like this and then wait a long time for rescue.

From what I remember you are seated with a pull down harness that comes over your shoulders.

The carriages are clearly not built with the possibility of ploughing into the back of another at 50MPH considered and the next point of impact is the legs so I dread to imagine the state of the poor people sitting on the front.

Also, if they were the people trapped for 4 hours then its lucky they haven't bled to death.

[Captain...]

There have been plenty of theme park/coaster accidents over the years, but you are correct to say that they are rare.

This one seems to have been very nasty, and it sounds like there could have been an element of human error. It should simply not be possible for this to happen. Either a computer fail safe system failed - which is terrifying enough in itself, or human intervention overrode the safety system which is probably even more terrifying!

I don't know the configuration of the ride cars (are the passengers sitting?, how/where does the safety bar fit on the passengers), but it sounds like severe crushing to lower limbs has been involved.

As mentioned by somebody else, this could cost the company millions in compensation. They are no doubt adequately insured for the liability.

Of course, most importantly, thoughts are with those injured. Must have been absolutely agonising to be involved in an accident like this and then wait a long time for rescue.

 

Interestingly I find it less terrifying that it was human error, you can't factor in human error, but if the software/technology failed so catastrophically then I would be worried as that mean the ride wasn't safe and other rides could be unsafe. Whereas human error means that the ride was safe, but someone manually overrode the safety checks.

 

Last time I was at Alton Towers they were yet to open the smiler and I really wanted to go back to try it as it looked good, and I would always queue to go on the front row, might not be in such a hurry now.

[Captain...]

By the time they've paid the fines, compensation and legal fees there won't be much change from £18million.

 

No but they have already paid £18m for the ride, regardless of the fines and compensation etc, after all that they still have an £18m "asset" on their hands that they have to make a decision over. Write off a further £18m, or fix it/install greater safety checks and reopen.

 

Perversely this accident could increase it's popularity amongst thrill seekers.

 

There seems to be some roller coaster enthusiasts on here, does anyone know what is normal after a serious accident on a ride?

[stripeyfox]

Interestingly I find it less terrifying that it was human error, you can't factor in human error, but if the software/technology failed so catastrophically then I would be worried as that mean the ride wasn't safe and other rides could be unsafe. Whereas human error means that the ride was safe, but someone manually overrode the safety checks.

Last time I was at Alton Towers they were yet to open the smiler and I really wanted to go back to try it as it looked good, and I would always queue to go on the front row, might not be in such a hurry now.

Yeah, I see what you mean. But the safety critical system shouldn't allow for someone to override it. I suppose I shouldn't speculate too much until the facts are known.

Used to go to AT loads back in the day but probably not been for 20 years. But my kids are getting to the age when they'll be wanting to go soon no doubt. Maybe stick to Splash Landings and the more gentile stuff to start with though!

[ramboacdc]

There have been plenty of theme park/coaster accidents over the years, but you are correct to say that they are rare.

This one seems to have been very nasty, and it sounds like there could have been an element of human error. It should simply not be possible for this to happen. Either a computer fail safe system failed - which is terrifying enough in itself, or human intervention overrode the safety system which is probably even more terrifying!

I don't know the configuration of the ride cars (are the passengers sitting?, how/where does the safety bar fit on the passengers), but it sounds like severe crushing to lower limbs has been involved.

As mentioned by somebody else, this could cost the company millions in compensation. They are no doubt adequately insured for the liability.

Of course, most importantly, thoughts are with those injured. Must have been absolutely agonising to be involved in an accident like this and then wait a long time for rescue.

 

if you have ever been on oblivion it is similar to that set up. i will try and get a picture of it. its the usual "vest harness" with a safety belt at the groin part (in case of getting stuck upside down and power failing.) there is a bar infront of you at the front of the cart that people (like on oblivion) will rest their legs on or put their legs up on (me included.) my guess is all 4 have been like this if it is true it has been stuck for 10 minutes at the top they have been stretching their legs or resting. when theyve crashed their legs have been crushed/gone the wrong way. 

[Captain...]

Yeah, I see what you mean. But the safety critical system shouldn't allow for someone to override it. I suppose I shouldn't speculate too much until the facts are known.

Used to go to AT loads back in the day but probably not been for 20 years. But my kids are getting to the age when they'll be wanting to go soon no doubt. Maybe stick to Splash Landings and the more gentile stuff to start with though!

 

What's wrong with Jewish roller coasters?

 

All systems need a manual override, if the situation was that the safety check was in error and there were people stuck at the top of the big drop because of an erroneous safety warning and they couldn't be released, and the system couldn't be reset then they would still be stuck there.

[ramboacdc]

No but they have already paid £18m for the ride, regardless of the fines and compensation etc, after all that they still have an £18m "asset" on their hands that they have to make a decision over. Write off a further £18m, or fix it/install greater safety checks and reopen.

 

Perversely this accident could increase it's popularity amongst thrill seekers.

 

There seems to be some roller coaster enthusiasts on here, does anyone know what is normal after a serious accident on a ride?

 

it depends on the country really. last time anything serious happened in this country was the infamous blackpool black hole ride where that kid got out of his seat and stood up and was killed by a peice of the track he couldnt see. All black hole rides were taken away and recycled to other coasters. The black hole at alton towers was taken away and the building destroyed. it was then replaced around 8 years later with "the smiler." 

[bovril]

Isn't a failure of technology also human error?

[Captain...]

Isn't a failure of technology also human error?

 

Yes but all rollercoasters should need to go through a series of safety checks, from a technological point of view the ride was safe, which means the rigorous testing standards for rollercoasters and rides is sufficient and there is not a fundamental flaw in the safety checks that could pose a risk to the safety of people on other rides.

 

Imagine it was a car, if you heard that a Ford Focus just careered off the road and crashed into another car killing people, if it was the fault of the driver then it is just as tragic, but there is no issue with the Ford Focus, if there was an error with the Ford Focus that caused it to crash then you would never get in another one and if you owned one you would sell it but nobody would buy it so you would scrap it and make a huge loss.

 

Roller coasters are safe and there was a human error, is more comforting than roller coasters aren't safe and there wasn't a human error by someone at Alton Towers.