Vlad the Fox Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 Vardy was England's best player if you looked at the game overall... Townsend too About the only two players who didn't want to go sideways or backwards. Austin should have had a runout but not at Vardys expense.
Gary Eatfood Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 Rooney is the king with no clothes. Absolutely fvcking useless. Not close to the top 25-50 players in world football and he's on 300k a week. Farcical. To be perfectly honest, that's absolutely rubbish. ****ing useless, not a chance.
FoxCal Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 It concerns me in a way that Vardy got on today and Austin didn't. You're in a friendly where you can use up to all (I think, unless I'm losing my mind) of your substitutes, and Hodgeson doesn't? I feel as though he has no intention of playing Vardy against Slovenia and brought him on to save face to a degree. If he plays in neither game then you have a bunch of morons on the Internet going 'why did he even bother, we all know he's crap', which is marginally worse than the reaction today of 'see, he's crap'. Vardy did well in what was possibly the ninety worst minutes of football I've ever seen. I'm happy for him and really hope he gets on again, or even starts next time out, I just don't see it.
shailen Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 It concerns me in a way that Vardy got on today and Austin didn't. You're in a friendly where you can use up to all (I think, unless I'm losing my mind) of your substitutes, and Hodgeson doesn't? I feel as though he has no intention of playing Vardy against Slovenia and brought him on to save face to a degree. If he plays in neither game then you have a bunch of morons on the Internet going 'why did he even bother, we all know he's crap', which is marginally worse than the reaction today of 'see, he's crap'. Vardy did well in what was possibly the ninety worst minutes of football I've ever seen. I'm happy for him and really hope he gets on again, or even starts next time out, I just don't see it. You can only make six subs in a friendly. If I remember correctly, it was changed after Sven changed his entire team at half time in one friendly.
GSOOT Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 He is lucky to get a call up. If it wasnt for u21's taking a strong squad he would be nowhere near
FoxCal Posted 7 June 2015 Posted 7 June 2015 You can only make six subs in a friendly. If I remember correctly, it was changed after Sven changed his entire team at half time in one friendly. Ah! There we go then, I'm losing my mind! Haha I don't often watch much international football! Even still, he only made the five subs? Just seems absolutely ludicrous. Imagine rocking up to a pre-season game at Ilkeston and Nige sends out a team of the usual suspects and only makes five subs, only two of which were dev squad players? I'm aware that these are polarising situations, but it doesn't happen. Not because it can't, just because it is totally unproductive.
Oxfordfox83 Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Not really sure why Leicester fans are having a go at people talking about why he's been included in the squad. It was us, Leicester fans, that dismissed him being good enough for the Championship two seasons ago, so we can't say anything about other fans having a go at him. What Vardy needs to do is to prove that he is good enough, and I think he did okay when he came on. Naturally a player from Leicester, isn't as fashionable as a Chelsea or United player. So if they don't do anything amazing they will be criticised. Finally, I hope people are joking about dropping Rooney. Yes he was poor today, but he still is England's best player and one of United's best players this season. The problem atm is that he has to do too much. He is dropping deep and trying to set attacks up and also be in the box trying to score goals. The midfield looks to be a problem currently, and only Carrick and Wilshere can be regarded as quality midfielders atm. They need to be back to give Rooney the confidence to do his job up front with Welbeck and Walcott/Sterling on the wings. I'm assuming you're joking about Rooney being England's best player-he's not turned up since 2004. He's a great talent in the sense that he has good vision and strikes the ball well, but he's got no footballing brain and is next to useless in a team that's not dominating. He'll never do the Gerrard thing of picking the team up single handedly (not that Gerrard ever really turned up for England); if it's not going his way, Rooney just gets petulant, plays out of position and ends up spoiling our possession. You're right however, he is the 'star' player, which means the young players always look to pass to him and so we become dull and predictable: nullify Rooney and you kill England. He ought to be, at most, our Sheringham, supporting a Shearer/Owen style finisher. Austin would fit that front two with Rooney very well (he's used to putting away one chance every two games presented by half-arsed prima donnas...), whereas JV would suit front three with Walcott & Austin, maybe with Rooney in the Mahrez role. Our best chance for Euro 2016 is for Rooney to sustain a major injury in April so we can pick in-form players instead.
shailen Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 I'm assuming you're joking about Rooney being England's best player-he's not turned up since 2004. He's a great talent in the sense that he has good vision and strikes the ball well, but he's got no footballing brain and is next to useless in a team that's not dominating. He'll never do the Gerrard thing of picking the team up single handedly (not that Gerrard ever really turned up for England); if it's not going his way, Rooney just gets petulant, plays out of position and ends up spoiling our possession. You're right however, he is the 'star' player, which means the young players always look to pass to him and so we become dull and predictable: nullify Rooney and you kill England. He ought to be, at most, our Sheringham, supporting a Shearer/Owen style finisher. Austin would fit that front two with Rooney very well (he's used to putting away one chance every two games presented by half-arsed prima donnas...), whereas JV would suit front three with Walcott & Austin, maybe with Rooney in the Mahrez role. Our best chance for Euro 2016 is for Rooney to sustain a major injury in April so we can pick in-form players instead. I do agree that in tournaments he has not turned up. But his England record speaks for itself. He is 3 goals away from being England's top ever goal scorer. In the PL, he has scored into double figures for 11 seasons in a row. His record and career speak for himself. Sure, he could have been as good as Ronaldo from the talent he had, and maybe he has underachieved but he is still a world class footballer. Even Ronaldo struggles at international level, in comparison to club level. Rooney is a team player and has sacrificed his game for the good of the team. He drops deep, and goes to support on either flank when clearly his best position is through the middle. If better players were around him, he has proven he can be more prolific. The quality around him in the England team is not complimentary to him one bit. This will be controversial but 10 years ago Vardy would not even be considered for the England team. I mean look at the England team, apart from Hart, Rooney and Wilshere no other players currently could play for Real Madrid/Barcelona. Names have popped up time and time again including our very own David Nugent, but these players cannot prove themselves to be good enough at club level, so for someone whose record is so good at club and country level, it should not even be a debate. Put simply, the quality of England's team has declined drastically over the last 10 years. He's the one English player who has continued to perform over that period. Look at his record. Austin has proven himself in one season at the top level, same as Vardy. There are far bigger liabilities in the England squad to remove. It's not about big names. If someone keeps performing, you play them. Yesterday, he was terrible. But in general, he has been good for England.
4everfox Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Rooney isn't world class. The fact that he is supposedly England's best player should be a big worry from a fans perspective, we will never win anything whilst players of his calibre are considered the best we can offer. Hate to say it but the current crop of England players are the worst I have ever seen. Our chance to win a cup was 2002-2004, we won't get another chance like that for decades.
shen Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Rooney isn't world class. The fact that he is supposedly England's best player should be a big worry from a fans perspective, we will never win anything whilst players of his calibre are considered the best we can offer. Hate to say it but the current crop of England players are the worst I have ever seen. Our chance to win a cup was 2002-2004, we won't get another chance like that for decades. Your chance to win a cup was in 1996, not 2002 or 2004. And to be fair, Scholes and Gerrard were recognised as superior players to Rooney in the countries I have lived in. Seems they are the ones getting recognition from their peers too, not Rooney. That said, Rooney is still a fine player which most international sides would love to have in their team.
Oxfordfox83 Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 I do agree that in tournaments he has not turned up. But his England record speaks for itself. He is 3 goals away from being England's top ever goal scorer. In the PL, he has scored into double figures for 11 seasons in a row. His record and career speak for himself. Sure, he could have been as good as Ronaldo from the talent he had, and maybe he has underachieved but he is still a world class footballer. Even Ronaldo struggles at international level, in comparison to club level. Rooney is a team player and has sacrificed his game for the good of the team. He drops deep, and goes to support on either flank when clearly his best position is through the middle. If better players were around him, he has proven he can be more prolific. The quality around him in the England team is not complimentary to him one bit. This will be controversial but 10 years ago Vardy would not even be considered for the England team. I mean look at the England team, apart from Hart, Rooney and Wilshere no other players currently could play for Real Madrid/Barcelona. Names have popped up time and time again including our very own David Nugent, but these players cannot prove themselves to be good enough at club level, so for someone whose record is so good at club and country level, it should not even be a debate. Put simply, the quality of England's team has declined drastically over the last 10 years. He's the one English player who has continued to perform over that period. Look at his record. Austin has proven himself in one season at the top level, same as Vardy. There are far bigger liabilities in the England squad to remove. It's not about big names. If someone keeps performing, you play them. Yesterday, he was terrible. But in general, he has been good for England. Cheers for considered reply, and I take several of your points (particularly about the drop in quality of the England team). The higlighted bit: I don't believe he plays deeper for the good of the team, I just think he lacks the discipline to be a proper striker. I think if you look at the great players, they play in their positions and wait for the one opportunity they might get to change the game. Whereas if our strikers go deep, when we do get a break then there's noone there to do anything about it. And if England don't start well, his attitude and approach can be quite poisonous. He is a great club player and a good England player, but if he's not in form, or he doesn't suit the formation we ought to be playing, then he shouldn't be immune to being dropped or subbed. I'd like top have seen how we played without him...
4everfox Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Your chance to win a cup was in 1996, not 2002 or 2004. And to be fair, Scholes and Gerrard were recognised as superior players to Rooney in the countries I have lived in. Seems they are the ones getting recognition from their peers too, not Rooney. That said, Rooney is still a fine player which most international sides would love to have in their team. The players we had in the era I mentioned were amongst the best in the world at the time. We had Gary Neville, John Terry, Sol Campbell, Rio Ferdinand, Jamie Carragher, Ashley Cole to choose from in defence. Beckham, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Hargreaves, Joe Cole to choose from in midfield. Owen up front with Rooney who seemed to be a world beater back then. We had an extremely good team which we wont have again for a very long time. If we couldn't win a tournament with players like that, then that is our own fault. I stand by what I said, we should have won the world cup in 2002 or the euros in 2004.
Kitchandro Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 The players we had in the era I mentioned were amongst the best in the world at the time. We had Gary Neville, John Terry, Sol Campbell, Rio Ferdinand, Jamie Carragher, Ashley Cole to choose from in defence. Beckham, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Hargreaves, Joe Cole to choose from in midfield. Owen up front with Rooney who seemed to be a world beater back then. We had an extremely good team which we wont have again for a very long time. If we couldn't win a tournament with players like that, then that is our own fault. I stand by what I said, we should have won the world cup in 2002 or the euros in 2004. Sorry, but at least half of those players are vastly overrated. There's a reason we didn't win anything, and that's because we weren't good enough. We were a bit unfortunate against Portugal in both quarter-finals, some vital decisions going against us (i.e goals and penalties being disallowed despite being perfectly fine, I strongly suspect and least one of them was a fix) but we didn't play very well in either game and were far from the best side in the tournament, on paper or otherwise. Should we have performed better? Arguably, yes. Individuals and the team as a whole played under themselves. But we weren't good enough to win, the facts speak for themselves. Anyway, England managers continue to make the same mistakes and we seem ok with it. We accept a man picking players because they play for the top teams even though they're poor or very out of form. We accept playing with absolutely not tempo at all. We accept it and that's what we're served up. Waste of time for players who want to play quickly. It's no wonder we never move forward.
David Guiza Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 The players we had in the era I mentioned were amongst the best in the world at the time. We had Gary Neville, John Terry, Sol Campbell, Rio Ferdinand, Jamie Carragher, Ashley Cole to choose from in defence. Beckham, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Hargreaves, Joe Cole to choose from in midfield. Owen up front with Rooney who seemed to be a world beater back then. We had an extremely good team which we wont have again for a very long time. If we couldn't win a tournament with players like that, then that is our own fault. I stand by what I said, we should have won the world cup in 2002 or the euros in 2004. 2002 we were knocked out by a wonder goal/fluke/goalkeeping error and possibly could have gone onto win that year, Gerrard and Neville were injured too I believe which didn't help. Trevor Sincilar was never likely to be a WC winner for example. Also Brazil had Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Rivaldo etc, hardly disgraced in going out against them (even though they were down to 10 if I remember correctly).
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 To be perfectly honest, that's absolutely rubbish. ****ing useless, not a chance. Absolutely ****ing useless. He's the best we've got which is why we're so absurdly shit.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Is the lad in the black t shirt in the centre of the screen or his two mates to his left (with the beards) anyone on here? Never seen them before at England games, but they were trying to get the Vardy chant going as soon as he come on
The Year Of The Fox Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 https://englandsupporters.thefa.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/08/jamie-vardy-hungry-for-more-after-making-england-debut
Wymsey Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Is the lad in the black t shirt in the centre of the screen or his two mates to his left (with the beards) anyone on here? Never seen them before at England games, but they were trying to get the Vardy chant going as soon as he come on Don't know them, but they look like men from the Stone Ages.
C-man Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Think the lad in the black shirt stands in SK1... Fairly sure he used to post on here.
shailen Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Cheers for considered reply, and I take several of your points (particularly about the drop in quality of the England team). The higlighted bit: I don't believe he plays deeper for the good of the team, I just think he lacks the discipline to be a proper striker. I think if you look at the great players, they play in their positions and wait for the one opportunity they might get to change the game. Whereas if our strikers go deep, when we do get a break then there's noone there to do anything about it. And if England don't start well, his attitude and approach can be quite poisonous. He is a great club player and a good England player, but if he's not in form, or he doesn't suit the formation we ought to be playing, then he shouldn't be immune to being dropped or subbed. I'd like top have seen how we played without him... I do agree with the bit where you talk about strikers dropping deep is not a good sign. But the fact of the matter is that the quality of service and the playmakers in the team are able to create enough for him. Looking at that team yesterday, only Wilshere is a quality creative player and that unfortunately is not enough. He needs to drop deep and contribute; he cannot stand there up front and wait for the service because it barely would reach him. A midfield three of Henderson, Milner and Wilshere were bullied by a championship standard ROI midfield. This is where the long time problem lies. It's only getting worse as well. Carrick and Wilshere are now the best midfielders we have. I don't agree about his attitude. Yes he can act up a little bit, but he never ever ever stops trying. He can get frustrated, but I don't think anyone can deny his work ethic. This is usually when he tries to do too much, but I think he knows that he doesn't have many options and needs to contribute more to supplement the team. No player should be immune from being dropped, but I think he has shown enough consistency and quality even this season to justify his selection. The bigger problem has to be why we haven't got more world class strikers keeping him out the side.
DB11 Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Be interesting to see if Vardy plays again but I am doubtful, even if his energy, drive and enthusiasm are what England need
fuchsntf Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Don't know them, but they look like men from the Stone Ages. Dont you mean...Stoneygate ???
Fez of Mahrez Posted 8 June 2015 Posted 8 June 2015 Is the lad in the black t shirt in the centre of the screen or his two mates to his left (with the beards) anyone on here? Never seen them before at England games, but they were trying to get the Vardy chant going as soon as he come on Bottom right - Alexikokopops has put on some timber.
Dan Posted 9 June 2015 Posted 9 June 2015 Sorry, but at least half of those players are vastly overrated. There's a reason we didn't win anything, and that's because we weren't good enough. We were a bit unfortunate against Portugal in both quarter-finals, some vital decisions going against us (i.e goals and penalties being disallowed despite being perfectly fine, I strongly suspect and least one of them was a fix) but we didn't play very well in either game and were far from the best side in the tournament, on paper or otherwise. Should we have performed better? Arguably, yes. Individuals and the team as a whole played under themselves. But we weren't good enough to win, the facts speak for themselves. Anyway, England managers continue to make the same mistakes and we seem ok with it. We accept a man picking players because they play for the top teams even though they're poor or very out of form. We accept playing with absolutely not tempo at all. We accept it and that's what we're served up. Waste of time for players who want to play quickly. It's no wonder we never move forward. Spot on. Really does bug me how many seem so blinded by beating shit like Slovenia and Lithuania that they let it cloud what's actually happening. We've not progressed one bit since the World Cup for me and I'd love to hear the arguments saying that we have. It's a shame Wilshere can't stay fit. He's got the most ability of any of our midfielders by a mile. I'd also like to see a bit more of James Ward-Prowse.
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