Terrorist Attacks

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

It's like any crime isn't it. 

 

How it's proven is not my beef and I accept it'd have to be proven like any other crime but it should be illegal. In fact it is illegal (high treason) but that law has not been enforced for decades.

I'm still confused on how it's going to be enforced then. I'm not disagreeing that these people are in the wrong.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

There are many peaceful things you can do to begin to combat terrorism. Not that I'd expect the liberal theorists, excuse-makers and human rights defenders on here to agree with them.

 

But they've had plenty of time to see their "love potion" politics reap rewards and they haven't, in fact quite the contrary to such a degree that even I'm surprised, and I wouldn't have let it happen in the first place.

 

Well, now it's time to act more practically and realistically, starting with a 5-10-point plan to restore this country to being the comparatively harmonious place to live in that it once used to be.

 

Current law-biding incomers would have nothing to fear. In fact, in time, they themselves might like the place better. Especially those who came here in the first place to get away from extremism and to bring their kids up in a happy environment. 

 

But the changes would be both radical and uncompromising in their commitment to the safety of people living here and the inclusiveness of our society within the terms of British law and British principles which would be emphasised time and again.

 

Britain would remain Britain as surely as Brexit would remain Brexit - it would not become a clone of mother-mutliculture. 

Yet it would embrace other cultures - but with a smile instead of a snarl.        

 

 

A lot of pointless rhetoric like normal. Would you care to elaborate - it all sounds quite sinister.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Buce said:

Yes.

 

 

So how is it enforced?

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, FIF said:

I'm still confused on how it's going to be enforced then. I'm not disagreeing that these people are in the wrong.

 

 

A lot of pointless rhetoric like normal. Would you care to elaborate - it all sounds quite sinister.

 

 

 

So how is it enforced?

Like any other crime is, we have enough info on these people to know where they have been and what they are doing, recorded travel information, witness's, to be fair they even announce their intentions 9/10 so it's not going to be hard to prove. If they are dumb enough to return and found guilty, lock them up and never let them out, enemies of the state.

Edited 27 July 2016 by Manwell Pablo

[Buce]

Just now, FIF said:

 

So how is it enforced?

By putting them in prison, I think.

[Guest]

Just now, Manwell Pablo said:

Like any other crime is, we have enough info on these people to know where they have been and what they are doing, to be fair they even announce their intentions 9/10. If they are dumb enough to return and found guilty, lock them up and never let them out, enemies of the state.

Just because people say they're going to do something that doesn't mean that they are - just look at the internet and FT in particular. Unless we can actually prove that they went to syria and fought (on the "wrong" side) I don't see how we can lock them up. There isn't much law out there in the first place to even get a rudimentary case. 

 

We'll end up losing a lot of cases and being sued and losing a lot of money.

[Guest]

Just now, Buce said:

By putting them in prison, I think.

Sorry wrong question for wrong person.

 

How do we prove it?

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, FIF said:

Sorry wrong question for wrong person.

 

How do we prove it?

No idea.

 

[Manwell Pablo]

59 minutes ago, FIF said:

Just because people say they're going to do something that doesn't mean that they are - just look at the internet and FT in particular. Unless we can actually prove that they went to syria and fought (on the "wrong" side) I don't see how we can lock them up. There isn't much law out there in the first place to even get a rudimentary case. 

 

We'll end up losing a lot of cases and being sued and losing a lot of money.

 

I've made my point FIF, our anti terror agencies what these people like a hawk, id imagine they already have a list of names of British nationals out there. Besides how we prove it is so far away from the point and a red hering. There people out there much more informed than you or I on that matter.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

I've made my point FIF, our anti terror agencies what these people like a hawk, id imagine they already have a list of names of British nationals out there. Besides how we prove it is so far away from the point and a red hering. There people out there much more informed than you or I on that matter.

You underestimate how many the security forces are "watching".

 

As shown in France is an impossible task

[Manwell Pablo]

19 minutes ago, FIF said:

You underestimate how many the security forces are "watching".

 

As shown in France is an impossible task

Not at all in fact the events in France this week have shown why action should be taken.

 

this man was known to have attempted to leave France to fight for Isis on three separate occasions and was on a tag. They were watching, they just didn't take appropriate action, I.e lock the ****er up the minute he tries to run off and join a military group so extreme AQ renounce them. If they'd done that we have one French Catholic priest with his head still attached. 

 

Youll never stop them all, but the ones we can should be dealt with with a zero tolerance policy.

[Guest]

Just now, Manwell Pablo said:

Not at all in fact the events in France this week have shown why action should be taken.

 

this man was known to have attempted to leave France to fight for Isis on three separate occasions and was on a tag. They were watching, they just didn't take appropriate action, I.e lock the ****er up the minute he tries to run off and join a military group so extreme AQ renounce them. If they'd done that we have one French Catholic priest with his head still attached. 

 

Youll never stop them all, but the ones we can should be dealt with with a zero tolerance policy.

We'll have to just disagree.

 

You can't lock all the people up for going abroad, you can't monitor 24/7 all those who have visited a middleEast/ African country

 

The French are watching thousands of people.

 

It's the same in the UK. The attackers of Lee Rigby were both known to British security forces.

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, FIF said:

We'll have to just disagree.

 

You can't lock all the people up for going abroad, you can't monitor 24/7 all those who have visited a middleEast/ African country

 

The French are watching thousands of people.

 

It's the same in the UK. The attackers of Lee Rigby were both known to British security forces.

 

Yeah but I haven't said any of that have I, I've said a man who is known to have tried to join Syrian IS fighters three should be locked up. 

 

But yeah draw a Line under it

Edited 27 July 2016 by Manwell Pablo

[Thracian]

22 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

So Tony is it a 5 or a 10 point plan?

 

What are the radical and uncompromising points? 

 

Or is this another flowery rhetoric with no substance Mr. Trump?

 

 

Whichever you like, Nick. 

Edited 28 July 2016 by Thracian

[Jon the Hat]

9 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

 

Whichever you like, Lisa. 

THE Lisa?

[Webbo]

28 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

THE Lisa?

It's Nick, it's pretty common knowledge.

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It's Nick, it's pretty common knowledge.

Well I was a little surprised at the idea it was Lisa.

[Dr The Singh]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Well I was a little surprised at the idea it was Lisa.

I love and miss and Lisa but I also love Nick aswell and miss him.............i'm so confused!!!

[Countryfox]

On 27 July 2016 at 19:09, FIF said:

You underestimate how many the security forces are "watching".

 

As shown in France is an impossible task

 

There is a big difference on how our security forces work to how those on the continent, particularly France and Germany, go about their business.  We snoop in a much more invasive way for example and monitor social media far more than on the continent.  It's one of the reasons why we stop attacks before they start and it's about time security forces on the continent followed our example.  If anything happens we have a specialist team that deal with it immediately ...   When 'the police' go in most of them are not actually the police at all but are army personnel who are highly trained for this one purpose.

 

There is a lot more that could be done to stop terrorist acts but unfortunately red tape holds it back.  Things are improving though.

[Thracian]

There is a lot can be done and I fail to understand the seeming death wish the West is inflicting on itself, courtesy of people who clearly fail to understand the mentality and calculated determination of the movers raged against us.  

 

Merkel's declared that she has no intentions of curbing her open door immigration policy. I'm reminded that "There's none so blind as those who cannot see," and am convinced now that it will cost her her job.

 

The "red tape" you mention is like a self-imposed straight jacket and needs ripping up and throwing in the trash can it might as well have emerged from in the first place because it's about as much to do with justice as Jack the Ripper was to kindness. 

 

It does, however, illustrate the problem we have in combating terrorism in the West. We simply don't have the will, courtesy of liberal "forgiveness fervour",  and have even bound our own hands with human rights legislation that doesn't actually seem to defend the human rights of victims but of perpetrators.     .    .

 

I mentioned 5/10 ways we could defend ourselves from terrorism - the point being that if the five ways proved sufficient there'd perhaps be no need for 10 or even more and I'd be glad of that because, to me, the fewer laws and the fewer sub-sections, the better - judges could balance extenuating circumstances.  

 

What is fair is what matters most. For instance, if a man is found guilty of promoting terrorism and sentenced to be deported, is it fair (on actual or potential victims of that promotion) that sentence is deferred while years of appeals are completed? I'd defend everyone's right to appeal. But that appeal should be heard quickly.    

 

 

 

[Buce]

59 minutes ago, Thracian said:

There is a lot can be done and I fail to understand the seeming death wish the West is inflicting on itself, courtesy of people who clearly fail to understand the mentality and calculated determination of the movers raged against us.  

 

Merkel's declared that she has no intentions of curbing her open door immigration policy. I'm reminded that "There's none so blind as those who cannot see," and am convinced now that it will cost her her job.

 

The "red tape" you mention is like a self-imposed straight jacket and needs ripping up and throwing in the trash can it might as well have emerged from in the first place because it's about as much to do with justice as Jack the Ripper was to kindness. 

 

It does, however, illustrate the problem we have in combating terrorism in the West. We simply don't have the will, courtesy of liberal "forgiveness fervour",  and have even bound our own hands with human rights legislation that doesn't actually seem to defend the human rights of victims but of perpetrators.     .    .

 

I mentioned 5/10 ways we could defend ourselves from terrorism - the point being that if the five ways proved sufficient there'd perhaps be no need for 10 or even more and I'd be glad of that because, to me, the fewer laws and the fewer sub-sections, the better - judges could balance extenuating circumstances.  

 

What is fair is what matters most. For instance, if a man is found guilty of promoting terrorism and sentenced to be deported, is it fair (on actual or potential victims of that promotion) that sentence is deferred while years of appeals are completed? I'd defend everyone's right to appeal. But that appeal should be heard quickly.    

 

 

 

You keep talking about your '5/10 point plan', but when challenged by @Swan Lesta to detail it, you refused.

 

Just the same old empty rhetoric.

[Thracian]

What's the point of me outlining what I can't effect or seeking to persuade those who have no intentions of being persuaded? 

 

It's not my life and future that's at stake to any lasting degree. It's the lives of young people who could and should have a future. 

 

And I'm utterly ashamed at what people of my generation have sanctioned through their ideological stupidity and continued blindness.

 

I'm not irked by your talk of "empty rhetoric".

 

I've had my time in charge of things and they worked fine thanks. 

 

I've twice been involved with political parties and on both occasions quickly become utterly frustrated by their hypocrisy and/or capacity for constant self harm.

 

In the end I realised that people are inevitably frustrating and I'm just not a natural democrat, nor even close.    

 

Even on a personal basis I found there's no changing people. They either can't change or won't change. I had my own personal example of it. No amount of financial support, help or advice made any difference.

 

The mum went to prison and the kids into care.  Brilliant!        

 

So, no, I won't bother outlining my recipe for tackling terrorism. I've mentioned enough ways in the past and it's not that hard to work out anyway - the hard part is having the will to apply it and Merkel's been emphasising how likely that is!  

 

Instead I shall focus on trying to develop a draw instead of a fade on the golf course! And hope the rain keeps off.       

[norwichfox]

We need to show clear intolerance to this I.S. murdering scum, lethal injection and re-entry to the UK in an orange box coffin works well for me, but I always was a bit of softee......

[thursday_next]

 

What’s happened to being stoic? Has it just disappeared with rolling news, just frightening us with the latest atrocity, and wheeling in expert after expert to describe to us how such a thing would be impossible in a perfect world?

 

(1)  Muslims are here to stay. I wish that there were no Muslims, no Catholics, no Protestants and no Jews, but that's not going to happen. People are sometimes good, despite their religion, and people are sometimes bad, despite their religion. I don’t see any way of stopping that.

 

(2)  Muslims do have an alarming tendency to blow shit up, or carry around automatic weapons to shoot people with. If that happens to me, I would be depressed, assuming that I’m still alive, but the world goes on, just as it did after the Somme, or the Blitz, or Vietnam.

 

(3)  Basically, the reason why Muslims are so attracted to blowing shit up or carrying around automatic weapons to shoot people with is that they have no air power, and they have this disturbing attitude to not doing what we say. It must be obvious to any right-thinking Muslims that any nation with Apache gunships, cruise missiles and drones has the perfect right to come in and tell them what to do, but they don’t seem to get that. They have instead developed the suicide bomber, against which there is no defence. They use it on each other all the time, so what’s the problem? It isn’t going to go away, and it will probably get worse.

 

(4)  Muslims must be left to sort out their own issues. Forget deradicalisation - I am prepared to admit that it’s done some good, although how many lives it’s actually saved must be open to question, but we must stop treating Muslims as children. Like it or not, that’s what we do. Forget the niqab and the burka, that’s down to Muslim girls to sort that out. It may well take fifty years in this country and longer elsewhere, but it will happen.
 
It’s a problem, there’s no doubt about that. The best we can do is to rely on our intelligence services, who do seem to do a good job, to mitigate the worst of it. However, don’t forget that 70 years ago the Germans blew up Coventry. All of it. Does Coventry survive today? I’m willing to bet that if you were to ask one of the survivors at that time, and ask them what they think of 7/7, they would probably look at you as if you’re daft.

 

I am prepared to admit that this may not a popular view, but what's the alternative? I live in a town where most of the taxi-drivers are Turkish, my barber's Turkish and my neighbours are Turkish. I have no idea what's going on in their heads. If one of them takes a Kalashnikov and starts shooting people, then what am I going to do apart from saying 'Have you got a licence for that thing?' and hit the floor screaming because one of my legs has been blown off. It's not exactly what I had planned for that day, but what the ****. Life goes on.

 

 

 

 

[Webbo]

20 minutes ago, thursday_next said:

 

 

 

 I live in a town where most of the taxi-drivers are Turkish, my barber's Turkish and my neighbours are Turkish.

 

 

 

 

Do you live in Turkey?

[thursday_next]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Do you live in Turkey?

It's worse than that, I actually live in Folkestone! 

[Buce]

5 hours ago, thursday_next said:

 don’t forget that 70 years ago the Germans blew up Coventry. All of it.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but they did some bad stuff too..