Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Americans are open to restrictions on gun controls like assault weapons and more indepth background checks, but these won't stop the violence, there has to be a fundamental change in American Culture.It will make it harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxUK Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Are you serious? He couldn't have done the same with a knife or a baseball bat. A gun allows an assailant to be a little distant from their victim, they can shoot multiple times in rapid succession, even as a victim runs away. With a knife, you have to be up close, it is difficult to make repeated stabbing motions on multiple victims, and you cant easily throw a knife if they run away. Same with a baseball bat. Try bludgeoning multiple people to death in an open space. It isn't going to happen. A bomb requires skills and planning. Picking up your gun and firing requires no thought or preparation. I think what Scouse is saying, like I have previously - is that this is pre-meditated, and he had a plan to kill these two people who (to him) wronged him previously. And if he was that serious about carrying out the task, if he didn't have a gun, he would have found a way to attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 I think what Scouse is saying, like I have previously - is that this is pre-meditated, and he had a plan to kill these two people who (to him) wronged him previously. And if he was that serious about carrying out the task, if he didn't have a gun, he would have found a way to attack them. Found a way to attack them, with weapons less lethal than a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Found a way to attack them, with weapons less lethal than a gun. How would you stop him getting a gun though?, there's not a chance America will ban them like they did here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxUK Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Found a way to attack them, with weapons less lethal than a gun. You don't need a gun to commit a muder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 How would you stop him getting a gun though?, there's not a chance America will ban them like they did here.Well that is the problem. But if he couldn't get it legally, it would be much harder to get them illegally.You don't need a gun to commit a muder.Of course you don't but it is clearly harder to do so. If you can't see that, then you are plainly delusional.Especially multiple murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Well that is the problem. But if he couldn't get it legally, it would be much harder to get them illegally. Then its a moot point I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Found a way to attack them, with weapons less lethal than a gun. or found an illegal way to get a gun. or killed them anyway without a gun like how thousands of people are murdered probably daily. not sure what your argument is here, it seems to be that it's impossible to kill someone without a gun? nobody is denying it would be harder to kill someone with gun laws in place, but if you pre plan it and really want to you're going to kill them whatever you use/however you get your hands on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Then its a moot point I guess.Hardly a moot point if it would be harder to get an illegal one. It would mean a. It would be more difficult for him to get a gun, b. More difficult for him to get one and c. Therefore more difficult for him to commit a multiple homicide.Yes I repeated a. Because where do you think your going to get a gun from if they are tightly regulated? Do you think you could just drive in to the hood and ask a homie for a gun?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxUK Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Well that is the problem. But if he couldn't get it legally, it would be much harder to get them illegally. Of course you don't but it is clearly harder to do so. If you can't see that, then you are plainly delusional. Especially multiple murders. I never said it wasn't easier.. of course it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 MC is correct. In a perfect world where the USA has sensible gun laws this would have played out much less tragically. How many people on here know where to go to buy a gun on the black market? I don't see why it's being presumed that if guns were illegal he'd get his hands on one anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 or found an illegal way to get a gun. or killed them anyway without a gun like how thousands of people are murdered probably daily. not sure what your argument is here, it seems to be that it's impossible to kill someone without a gun? nobody is denying it would be harder to kill someone with gun laws in place, but if you pre plan it and really want to you're going to kill them whatever you use/however you get your hands on it. As you said. It. Is. Harder. To kill. Without a gun. Than it is with a gun. End of discussion IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 MC is correct. In a perfect world where the USA has sensible gun laws this would have played out much less tragically. How many people on here know where to go to buy a gun on the black market? I don't see why it's being presumed that if guns were illegal he'd get his hands on one anyway... there's a lot of things loads of people don't know, but if you wanted to find out i doubt it's that hard. As you said. It. Is. Harder. To kill. Without a gun. Than it is with a gun. End of discussion IMO. yes, which is why i said for most other cases you are completely correct. for this case you are right in what you're trying to argue too, i guess. however ignoring everything and just focussing on this, a maniac of a man who wanted to kill someone and had gone about maticulously planning how and when he was going to kill them, if guns were illegal do you think he'd still have killed them? yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Hardly a moot point if it would be harder to get an illegal one. It is when you consider that America will never ban them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 What america needs is better mental health care Or just health care that doesnt bankrupt you if you havent got insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 there's a lot of things loads of people don't know, but if you wanted to find out i doubt it's that hard. yes, which is why i said for most other cases you are completely correct. for this case you are right in what you're trying to argue too, i guess. however ignoring everything and just focussing on this, a maniac of a man who wanted to kill someone and had gone about maticulously planning how and when he was going to kill them, if guns were illegal do you think he'd still have killed them? yes or no? I doubt it took much meticulous planning, they are probably on air each day at the same time, sure from a different location or whatever, but all he had to do was watch the news, listen to where they were going to be broadcasting live from, turn up and shoot.He didn't have to learn bomb making, source parts, carefully build and then detonate a bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 It is when you consider that America will never ban them.Don't need to ban. Need to strongly regulate.I remember going to a Bass Pro shop and seeing the most unreal weapons on sale for a few hundred dollars. If I were a citizen, I could have got one immediately. Walked in to the mall and killed several people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 I doubt it took much meticulous planning, they are probably on air each day at the same time, sure from a different location or whatever, but all he had to do was watch the news, listen to where they were going to be broadcasting live from, turn up and shoot. He didn't have to learn bomb making, source parts, carefully build and then detonate a bomb. do you think this murder would've taken place if america had slightly stricter gun laws, yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 What america needs is better mental health care Or just health care that doesnt bankrupt you if you havent got insurance. This. ThisthisTHIS! I think gun culture is so ingrained in the US that any kind of ban would likely be unenforceable. Instead, wouldn't it be a easier and better idea to actually find and treat the nutters in the ranks so they don't get armed in the first place? Another reason healthcare-for-profit is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 do you think this murder would've taken place if america had slightly stricter gun laws, yes or no? Whether this specific murder would have taken place isn't really the important question, surely it's about whether there would be fewer murders if America had stricter gun controls and I'd hazard a guess that there would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Americans are open to restrictions on gun controls like assault weapons and more indepth background checks, but these won't stop the violence, there has to be a fundamental change in American Culture. Yes, exactly. This "i'm pissed off with my work colleague so i'm going to go to Walmart, buy a gun and kill him exactly how that guy did on the news" cluture isn't helping that. So stop guns being so easily accessable now so that the future of America looks better because it's not going to change in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 do you think this murder would've taken place if america had slightly stricter gun laws, yes or no? Depends what the laws are.......pretty closed question with no possible answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 do you think this murder would've taken place if america had slightly stricter gun laws, yes or no?Slightly stricter? No, because currently they have very lax gun laws.Much much much stricter? He may have murdered one person, but perhaps not two if he didn't have a gun. I can see a bolt action rifle would be fine for hunting, and possibly for the militia defending the nation against a (home) government with nuclear capability. Think about his options, 1. Driving into them: blunt tool, would have probably killed one and seriously injured another. He could have reversed and ran them over again to make sure... 2. Homemade bomb: probably would have seriously injured himself making it. 3. Knife: would have stabbed one (fatal? Maybe not) and the others would have run away. 4. Baseball bat; seriously? 5. Poisoning: That would take serious planning. He'd have to get a job at Dunkin' and then be on the right shift, and then slip the poison in while making small talk about his new job. 6. Illegal gun; psst... Yo dude, you're not a cop are you? No? Good... Can you get me a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 do you think this murder would've taken place if america had slightly stricter gun laws, yes or no? Difficult to say about any one particular murder. But it's clear to see that countries with strict gun control have far less murders. Anyone who can't see that is ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Whether this specific murder would have taken place isn't really the important question, surely it's about whether there would be fewer murders if America had stricter gun controls and I'd hazard a guess that there would be. well when i have opened every mother fu cking post with RELATING TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE then this particular case is the important part of this conversation Difficult to say about any one particular murder. But it's clear to see that countries with strict gun control have far less murders. Anyone who can't see that is ignorant. nobody. is. arguing. that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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