ScouseFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Slightly stricter? No, because currently they have very lax gun laws. Much much much stricter? He may have murdered one person, but perhaps not two if he didn't have a gun. I can see a bolt action rifle would be fine for hunting, and possibly for the militia defending the nation against a (home) government with nuclear capability. Think about his options, 1. Driving into them: blunt tool, would have probably killed one and seriously injured another. He could have reversed and ran them over again to make sure... 2. Homemade bomb: probably would have seriously injured himself making it. 3. Knife: would have stabbed one (fatal? Maybe not) and the others would have run away. 4. Baseball bat; seriously? 5. Poisoning: That would take serious planning. He'd have to get a job at Dunkin' and then be on the right shift, and then slip the poison in while making small talk about his new job. 6. Illegal gun; psst... Yo dude, you're not a cop are you? No? Good... Can you get me a gun? someone intent on killing someone, unless they are thick, will kill someone. i'd say you're the one who's being a bit ignorant if you think otherwise, no offence. use the uk as an example if you want. we've got half decent gun laws and people still get guns and people still get murdered. because people are intent on doing it. that's all i'm saying. it happens less often, you're right. it's presumably much harder, again i'd assume you're right (i've never tried to kill someone either here or in america so i can't comment fully). but, and for the last time, it still happens because people are still fu cked up enough to want to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 well when i have opened every mother fu cking post with RELATING TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE then this particular case is the important part of this conversation nobody. is. arguing. that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The point is America should have stricter gun control laws. People aren't saying that specifically because of this incident, most people have been saying it for years. It's just brought up when gun related murders come up because they're fairly frequent and it's blatantly obvious that the current attitude to guns in America is stupid. No one can say whether individual murders would happen, but I think we can be fairly confident that the number of these incidents would be smaller if it was much more difficult to get a gun. I'm struggling to see what point you're trying to make to be honest. Edit: Just read your post above. Yes he still might have found a way to kill two people that's very possible, but fewer people would find a way to carry out attacks like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Reports coming through that he's died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 someone intent on killing someone, unless they are thick, will kill someone. i'd say you're the one who's being a bit ignorant if you think otherwise, no offence. use the uk as an example if you want. we've got half decent gun laws and people still get guns and people still get murdered. because people are intent on doing it. that's all i'm saying. it happens less often, you're right. it's presumably much harder, again i'd assume you're right (i've never tried to kill someone either here or in america so i can't comment fully). but, and for the last time, it still happens because people are still fu cked up enough to want to make it happen. That's the point though isn't it. It is harder and happens much less frequently.Of course, someone intent on doing anything will find a way to do it. But it will reduce the number of times that accidents, spur of the moment killings and other gun related violence occurs, and make it much harder for people intent on doing these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 well when i have opened every mother fu cking post with RELATING TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE then this particular case is the important part of this conversation nobody. is. arguing. that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Watching this conversation it's obvious that you're talking about different things. Most people aren't most interested in this incident in particular, their focus is on the pattern of similar murders in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Watching this conversation it's obvious that you're talking about different things. Most people aren't most interested in this incident in particular, they're focus is on the pattern of similar murders in the US.Exactly, this is just a horrendously well publicised gun related murder of one of the many that happen daily in the US. Unfortunately, the majority of gun related homicides do not get any media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 well when i have opened every mother fu cking post with RELATING TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE then this particular case is the important part of this conversation nobody. is. arguing. that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But it's impossible to say what the gunman was thinking and how he went about it. Especially when he's topped himself after Please don't shout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderbyFox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Yeah just been confirmed that the gunman has died from his wound. Also the third victim (interviewee) is out of surgery and is in a stable condition thankfully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 The point is America should have stricter gun control laws. People aren't saying that specifically because of this incident, most people have been saying it for years. It's just brought up when gun related murders come up because they're fairly frequent and it's blatantly obvious that the current attitude to guns in America is stupid. No one can say whether individual murders would happen, but I think we can be fairly confident that the number of these incidents would be smaller if it was much more difficult to get a gun. I'm struggling to see what point you're trying to make to be honest. Edit: Just read your post above. Yes he still might have found a way to kill two people that's very possible, but fewer people would find a way to carry out attacks like this. Based on who's decision? 52% of those polled by Gallup see no need for change or loosening gun control laws. Any change in the law would be so minor that it would not stop anyone being shot with a gun. Even if hand guns were banned and destroyed, which will never happen, sporting guns will still be available. Hell will freeze over before they are banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Slightly stricter? No, because currently they have very lax gun laws. Much much much stricter? He may have murdered one person, but perhaps not two if he didn't have a gun. I can see a bolt action rifle would be fine for hunting, and possibly for the militia defending the nation against a (home) government with nuclear capability. Think about his options, 1. Driving into them: blunt tool, would have probably killed one and seriously injured another. He could have reversed and ran them over again to make sure... 2. Homemade bomb: probably would have seriously injured himself making it. 3. Knife: would have stabbed one (fatal? Maybe not) and the others would have run away. 4. Baseball bat; seriously? 5. Poisoning: That would take serious planning. He'd have to get a job at Dunkin' and then be on the right shift, and then slip the poison in while making small talk about his new job. 6. Illegal gun; psst... Yo dude, you're not a cop are you? No? Good... Can you get me a gun? And thats part of the reason why most americans i know want to have legal access to guns.. The argument they use is that the only reasons why the South american drug cartels are 'drug' cartels is because thats the best way to make money. They seem to think if you make owning guns illegal, You'll only be taking the guns out of the law abiding citezens hands, furthermore, the price of a gun on the underground market will increase significantly. Suddenly the country will have so many more untraceable illegal weapons in the country with not a single background check able to be done. as this will be a new way for the cartels/ gangs to make alot of money Its a fair argument , to be fair and its way more complicated than just 'lets ban guns'. Incidently, I don't own a hand gun and don't like the idea of carrying one with me... We're a bit more fortuinate in Britain as we have a natural border that makes it slightly easier to control what comes into the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 And thats part of the reason why most americans i know want to have legal access to guns.. The argument they use is that the only reasons why the South american drug cartels are 'drug' cartels is because thats the best way to make money. They seem to think if you make owning guns illegal, You'll only be taking the guns out of the law abiding citezens hands, furthermore, the price of a gun on the underground market will increase significantly. Suddenly the country will have so many more untraceable illegal weapons in the country with not a single background check able to be done. as this will be a new way for the cartels/ gangs to make alot of money Its a fair argument , to be fair and its way more complicated than just 'lets ban guns'. Incidently, I don't own a hand gun and don't like the idea of carrying one with me... We're a bit more fortuinate in Britain as we have a natural border that makes it slightly easier to control what comes into the country. The increase in price will make guns less accessible. And let's face it, drug wars largely only kill dealers. That is already the case. Sure, guns can be used in self defence, and they have helped many people. However, owning a gun also means you are more likely to die by a gun. There are also many many untraceable guns already because people can sell them privately. The federal law says only licensed gun dealers have to do background checks and keep records of sales. That is a rather silly loophole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 The increase in price will make guns less accessible. And let's face it, drug wars largely only kill dealers. That is already the case. Sure, guns can be used in self defence, and they have helped many people. However, owning a gun also means you are more likely to die by a gun. There are also many many untraceable guns already because people can sell them privately. The federal law says only licensed gun dealers have to do background checks and keep records of sales. That is a rather silly loophole. . There's just so many people here that are more interested in 'upgrading' their gun and ammo collection than they are buying a new car. They'd much rather drive around in an older vehicle than miss out on a gun. The doubling or trippling of the price of a gun will mean nothing to the people down here in North Carolina. Yes drug dealers usually only kill drug dealers, but they would sell a gun to whoever gave them the money.... just like the drugs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 But they will sell the guns to anyone who gives them the money...Harder to find and more expensive = Less opportunity and requires a greater level of intent than is currently needed.I'd take that over what the situation is at present, which is easy to find and cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Harder to find and more expensive = Less opportunity and requires a greater level of intent than is currently needed. I'd take that over what the situation is at present, which is easy to find and cheap. whose to say they would be harder to find? They'd be a huge underground market for guns and people will usually find whatever they want to find. Supply and demand scenerio. I mean. hard drugs are illegal but people can find them if they want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxUK Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 What are the gun laws like in NC MPH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 What america needs is better mental health care I see this a lot from the gun nuts over there. The problem is half the time you don't know someone is in need of mental health care until they have a gun and shot someone. I'm going to presume that if someone is already under treatment they don't find it easy to procure a gun (who am I kidding they probably get one free in their pack of sugar puffs over there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 I see this a lot from the gun nuts over there. The problem is half the time you don't know someone is in need of mental health care until they have a gun and shot someone. I'm going to presume that if someone is already under treatment they don't find it easy to procure a gun (who am I kidding they probably get one free in their pack of sugar puffs over there). So true, when you have Walmart selling guns run by store operatives that can barely read or follow instructions, the ease of action is one thing. But a bigger problem is the mentality towards guns, people see them as possesions and toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 christ almighty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambridgefox Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 christ almighty split second later she was dead.Think that picture is a bit much by "the sun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_LCFC Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 Looks somewhat photoshopped on The Sun tbh. Such an over the top newspaper. About as much class as Katie Price in a strip club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 I'm not sure what's worse, the cartoon gun shot or the link to watch two people being murdered on their website. It's always been a scumbag paper anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdb Posted 26 August 2015 Share Posted 26 August 2015 That Sun headline sums the paper up. Distasteful, tacky and you'd never know a poor bloke was killed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 27 August 2015 Share Posted 27 August 2015 What are the gun laws like in NC MPH? Well there's room for improvement but it's ok. I like that anyone who has a restraining order can't own a gun or be in possession of one... I like that anyone who is diagnosed as being a manic depressive or Is bi polar is the same and anyone who has been convicted of a violent crime. No one who has a current mental illness is allowed to own s gun.I like that any private sale of a gun( friend to friend) MUSTA BE REGISTERED at the city or County police HQ. I like that ANYONE no matter who, that wants to purchase a hand gun MUST obtain a permit from the sheriffs office. That usually means a back ground check and stuff like that. I like that anyone who wants to go deer hunting must pass a hunter safety course and the same for anyone who wants to conceal their hand gun ( inside pocket of their jacket, hidden holster) must also pass a safety course and declare it when in the presence( even same room) as a police officer I do not like that a gun can be purchased online either from a store or from a Facebook group although I guess that's the same for most states.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit Blues Posted 27 August 2015 Share Posted 27 August 2015 Unfortunately I see and agree with both sides of the argument. There should be some sensible changes to make them harder to obtain. We should do what we can to keep them out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill or children. But, and don't hate me for it, I believe guns are often necessary. Our criminals have weapons and often the police are too far away. Many people live in rural areas far from the nearest station. Also, many people live in urban areas with little to no police presence. The saying is, when every second counts the police are only minutes away. The proliferation of weapons is so extreme that I feel like it's almost too late to go back. Weapons have been horded for years, what difference does it make to ban the further sale? Sometimes I just feel hopeless that the violence will never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 27 August 2015 Share Posted 27 August 2015 Unfortunately I see and agree with both sides of the argument. There should be some sensible changes to make them harder to obtain. We should do what we can to keep them out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill or children. But, and don't hate me for it, I believe guns are often necessary. Our criminals have weapons and often the police are too far away. Many people live in rural areas far from the nearest station. Also, many people live in urban areas with little to no police presence. The saying is, when every second counts the police are only minutes away. The proliferation of weapons is so extreme that I feel like it's almost too late to go back. Weapons have been horded for years, what difference does it make to ban the further sale? Sometimes I just feel hopeless that the violence will never end. Detroit is rough, as is Baltimore. I lived in the city, I didn't have a gun, I lived to tell the tale. To say it is too late to go back is giving up. America needs to be strong and make tough decisions. Unfortunately, the very vocal extreme right will make too much noise and the gun companies will throw too much money at the problem. But gun laws need changing. I've just seen this... This week (since Monday): -A 1 year old accidentally shot and killed himself -A 14 year old held his entire class hostage at gun-point -An armed man was shot down in a Philadelphia courthouse -A Kentucky man was shot while selling a firearm -An 8-year-old accidentally shot another 8-year-old in school -A toddler and his father were both shot outside their home in Louisiana -A reporter and her camera-man were both fatally shot while giving a live news report And besides those wonderful highlights in the last 48-hours in America, there have been 166 separate shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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