Migrants - What's the answer?

[Merging Cultures]

We need to accept that borders are an imagined line, people are real and need to be saved. the "developed" world needs to agree an equal distribution and start saving these people.

I agree.

If people knew that they would be accepted, based on an agreed quota system, once they had been processed, it would mean people would be less likely to go to extreme measures to get to a 'developed' country.

[Wymsey]

The Tories will probably regret wanting the UK 'to do more' and let more in.

 

This will send outrage to the general public.

 

The tax payer will suffer from this.

[bovril]

The Tories will probably regret wanting the UK 'to do more' and let more in.

This will send outrage to the general public, at the cost of the taxpayer.

How much does it cost to send outrage these days?

[Danno]

Take in the refugees. It's an absolute joke that obscenely wealthy countries like the US, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia have done absolutely nothing to help when tiny countries like Lebanon put them to shame.

[Guest]

You asked if immigration was like this before ISIS and I gave you an answer which was correct.  The economist claims it's the worst immigration crisis in Europe since WWII and the worst refugee crisis for any country since Afghanistan almost a quarter of a century ago.  So no, it didn't exist "on this scale" "before this recent IS advance".  Don't ask if you think you already know.

Now I'm confused.

 

You said it's the worst crisis and then quote that there have been worse in living memory.

 

If I understand you correctly then immigration and refugeeism has been worse but got better and is now getting worse again.

[Guest]

Shouldn't we be tackling the root of the problem? 

 

Civil war in Syria and ISIS? 

Possibly.

 

But didn't we cause some of it in the first place by going into Iraq and Libya and Afghanistan and removing the stabilising governments that were there.

 

Do you think we can tackle the problem by boots on the ground or are you suggesting another alternative?

[Guest]

We need to accept that borders are an imagined line, people are real and need to be saved. the "developed" world needs to agree an equal distribution and start saving these people.

 

I'm onboard with that but are the migrating people? Many seem to have a preferred destination.

[Guest]

How much does it cost to send outrage these days?

 

A lot more since Royal Mail was privatised.

[EnderbyFox]

The Tories will probably regret wanting the UK 'to do more' and let more in.

 

This will send outrage to the general public.

 

The tax payer will suffer from this.

 

Let's do nothing then, let innocent people fleeing their war torn countries drown. 

 

At least it'll save the tax payer an extra couple of quid a month.

[Guest]

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6887997/3-18062015-CP-EN.pdf/4457b050-26f9-4cf1-bf27-9ffb73ff8c7b

 

So that says it's Kosovars who are the most numerous.

 

I haven't even heard them mentioned in the media coverage that I've watched recently.

[bovril]

Probably because 'kosovars' don't really exist. When they arrive in the UK they are more commonly just called Albanians.

[Guest]

Probably because 'kosovars' don't really exist. When they arrive in the UK they are more commonly just called Albanians.

 

So they are nothing to do with the problem in hand then?

[Carl the Llama]

Now I'm confused.

 

You said it's the worst crisis and then quote that there have been worse in living memory.

 

If I understand you correctly then immigration and refugeeism has been worse but got better and is now getting worse again.

No, I said:

 

The economist claims it's the worst immigration crisis in Europe since WWII and the worst refugee crisis for any country (as in numbers of asylum seekers from one country in particular) since Afghanistan almost a quarter of a century ago. 

Obviously immigration's existed ever since borders were conceived, your question though was.

 

Didn't it exist before this recent IS advance?

To which the answer is yes, global immigration was already happening (of course) but the ISIS situation has hugely exacerbated the numbers attempting dangerous crossings and dying as a result.  To brush it off as unimportant because 'immigrants have always been a thing' is rather crass.

[Jon the Hat]

Why not ask in Arabic?

 

You are missing the point.  If you ask people who speak Arabic & English they will likely prefer to live in England. I am sure when the German news screws ask people who Speak Arabic & German they would prefer Germany.  We see news coverage of interviews in our language, which skews it to look like everyone is coming here, which is clearly bollocks.

[Richmondfox]

It is a difficult one for governments to sort out.  Whilst i'm sure a lot of people would like to help those in serious need, logistically the country can't take refugees, migrants, dish out working/student visas to Africa/India/Pakistan and still follow the EU freedom of movement rules, something has to give way but which one?  I would happily see the refugees of Syria looked after at the expensive of one of the above.

 

Hungary are doing what is expected under EU rules on asylum yet getting slated by all corners.  What isn't helping the Syria/Refugee situation is the sheer volume of African economic migrants in Calais.  They have been in France for a long time but won't claim asylum as they can't disappear into the black market unlike in England.  The crimes they are committing breaking into trucks and violent behaviour should be enough to refuse stay in our country.  In Greece there are a lot of economic migrants coming from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

A few weeks back the Polish PM refused to take extra migrants/refugees but a while ago called Cameron xenophobic and racist for talking about plans to lower the amount of EU migrants in the UK.  One rule for one.  For every person working in this country from Poland they should have an asylum seeker, problem sorted.

 

Why is Turkey still acceptable as a holiday destination for millions of people but not safe enough for people from Syria?  

 

I know it's a flippant comment but watching a lot of news reports and seeing pictures in the press they could learn to pick up their litter after themselves and bash out young children in times are war and hardship.  I know if I was being attacked by a religious cult and oppressive government, kids would be low down on my list.

[RedHux]

I wish it were.

 

But it's not it's both a refugee crisis and a migrant crisis.

 

The syrians and Iraqis in Hungary (Estonia, Poland etc...) could ask to stay there but they aren't they are trying to cross the country and get to Germany. That is a migrant crisis. The Africans at Calais could have stayed in Italy or Spain or Greece but they haven't , they haven't even stayed by choice in France they want to get to the UK - that is a Migrant problem.

 

I'm not right wing and I see the benefits of immigration to our countries but we have a Migrant problem and closing your eyes to it won't solve it.

They don't want to stay in Italy because life here is awful for them. They may not be getting bombed but almost everything else is happening to them and the authorities don't want to know or are complicit.  Only today in Milan some poor Eritrean hurled himself under a metro train...then there's the Mafia who see these people as a nice little earner and have no intentions of giving that up too easily.

[Babylon]

They don't want to stay in Italy because life here is awful for them. They may not be getting bombed but almost everything else is happening to them and the authorities don't want to know or are complicit.  Only today in Milan some poor Eritrean hurled himself under a metro train...then there's the Mafia who see these people as a nice little earner and have no intentions of giving that up too easily.

Problem is many countries will be less than perfect for them. The handful around the world that they see as the best options can't take everyone. Absolutely no way the services of those countries could cope.

[RedHux]

The services here are pretty shoddy anyway and they would more then likely die of old age before getting any sort official papers from an Italian court (this last bit seems to be par for the course for everyone).

Apparently though it's not urgent enough for the EU to put any kind of sensible plan in place.

In other news, former UKIP candidate peter bucklitsch seems to have not exactly covvered himself in glory today... https://twitter.com/search?vertical=default&q=peter%20bucklitsch

[Danno]

UKIP candidate in making a tit out of himself shocker.

[AjcW]

Bayern Munich are to set up a 'training camp' for refugees coming into Germany and will donate 1m euros (£730,000) for refugee projects.

Parts of Europe have seen an influx of migrants arriving, with many in Hungary wishing to travel to Germany.

The Bundesliga champions plan to provide food, German lessons and football equipment for children.

"Bayern sees it as its social responsibility to help the refugees," said club CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.

The number of migrants entering Europe has reached record levels this year, largely driven by the conflict in Syria. Germany expects to take in 800,000 asylum seekers this year - four times last year's total.

Borussia Dortmund banner

Borussia Dortmund fans held a banner with "Refugees Welcome" during a match against Hannover 96 last October

Bayern, who have won the German league title 25 times and are five-time European champions, will also highlight the current refugee crisis in their next home match against Augsburg.

The game on 12 September will see the starting line-up enter the Allianz Arena "holding the hand of a German child and a refugee's child".

The migrant crisis

Live updates: Migrant crisis

Migrants refuse to leave train in Hungary

Migrant crisis is a German problem

Bayern's rivals and current league leaders Borussia Dortmund invited 220 refugees to watch the side play Norwegian side Odd in the Europa League last Thursday. Rivals Mainz gave out 200 free tickets to their home match against Hannover last weekend.

Banners carrying positive messages in support of refugees were evident at last weekend's Bundesliga matches.

Meanwhile, Celtic announced their share of the proceeds from this weekend's Jock Stein 30th anniversary events will be devoted to assisting those people affected by the current refugee crisis.

The view from Germany

Football expert Raphael Honigstein talking to BBC World Service: "The Germany refugee crisis situation plays out in city centres across the country. You either hear of them being helped by nice people or faced with demonstrators and right-wing terrorists trying to burn down places they are staying in or beating them up.

"You have to take your hat off to fans' groups who have seen this and decided they need to show whose side they are on. You have clubs all over Germany who organise games with refugees, even before this latest wave of refugees. It's a real grassroots movement."

Journalist Ronald Reng talking to BBC World Service: "It shows you that the ultra fans want to be seen as political groups. There is certainly a change. They don't want to be just football fans, but be something more.

"When football fans have been seen as political groups they have usually been associated with being right wing, particularly in Italy. In Germany they want to distance themselves from the first movement - the hooligan movement."

[Larry_LCFC]

I don't know what the answer is to be quite honest. Whilst they find themselves in a terrible situation, what are we supposed to do with them all? Where will the money come from to pay for them? Where will they stay? What will they do? Opening the gates is not the answer. Ofcourse we need to do our bit, but this situation is spiralling out of control.

[Guest]

  To brush it off as unimportant because 'immigrants have always been a thing' is rather crass.

I haven't brushed it off - I think it's so important that I started a thread on it to see what answers people had.

 

I think you are underestimating the problem by trying to blame ISIS for it. The migrant problem is a European catastrophe even without the added ISIS problem.

You are missing the point.  If you ask people who speak Arabic & English they will likely prefer to live in England. I am sure when the German news screws ask people who Speak Arabic & German they would prefer Germany.  We see news coverage of interviews in our language, which skews it to look like everyone is coming here, which is clearly bollocks.

 

Agreed. Thanks.

[Guest]

They don't want to stay in Italy because life here is awful for them. They may not be getting bombed but almost everything else is happening to them and the authorities don't want to know or are complicit.  Only today in Milan some poor Eritrean hurled himself under a metro train...then there's the Mafia who see these people as a nice little earner and have no intentions of giving that up too easily.

 

Thanks. I didn't know that.

[Thracian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34135679

 

The answer certainly has nothing to do with bullshit propaganda like this.

 

It doesn't help of course that wealthy Gulf countries don't seem to want the refugees - you'd think a good many of them would be most at home there.

 

Refugees represent a massive problem with massive implications and many of them for the worst where Europe and the UK is concerned.  

[Smudge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34135679

 

The answer certainly has nothing to do with bullshit propaganda like this.

 

It doesn't help of course that wealthy Gulf countries don't seem to want the refugees - you'd think a good many of them would be most at home there.

 

Refugees represent a massive problem with massive implications and many of them for the worst where Europe and the UK is concerned.  

It begs the question why three thousand people at Calais, don't feel safe in any one of the countries they've passed through. It can't be the weather.