Finnegan Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Think Mahrez is but Kante isn't. Although the former is certainly not a practising one judging by his behaviour in Gala Casino I don't know this for certain but someone told me Kante's parents fled Mali due to the violence towards them by Muslims, something quite common in the country since the 60's that has seen the percentage of Christians there reduce from around half to a single figure. I'm told Mahrez apparently doesn't gamble but that he bankrolls his friends that do. I'm not sure how true that is, the source was incredibly biased! Anyway, on topic, what utter, utter twats. I'll literally never understand that level of evil.
leicsmac Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 From what I've seen and read over the last few years no I can't really compare any Christian extremists with the two groups you mentioned (for a start Boko Harem have killed more than ISIS) - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/boko-haram-isis_us_564cd890e4b00b7997f8c15d- It would be like comparing OJ Simpson to Adolf Hitler. Maybe it's a biased Western media that aren't reporting on the actions of Christian extremists to the same extent. 100,000+ deaths total due to the LRA: http://www.theresolve.org/the-lra-crisis/key-statistics/ That's pretty chunky numbers. Actually you know what...are we really fvcking doing this at this time? Why the fvck am I trying to equate two kinds of extremism and discuss the nature of militancy when all that really should be said is that it's fvcking terrible, that you'd hope the dead get rest and that anyone trying to be a cvnt to someone else because of any words written by anyone centuries ago is a unthinking, sociopathic, idiotic cvnt, no matter who the fvck wrote it or who else believes it.
Rincewind Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I do not think any good Christian or Muslim would want to be associated withe these groups. But I am not religious and the main reason is that it is used as an excuse for violence by these people.As far as I am concerned they do not need any title attached to them but murdering bastards because that is all they are.
Alf Bentley Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Think Mahrez is but Kante isn't. Although the former is certainly not a practising one judging by his behaviour in Gala Casino I don't know this for certain but someone told me Kante's parents fled Mali due to the violence towards them by Muslims, something quite common in the country since the 60's that has seen the percentage of Christians there reduce from around half to a single figure. While Islamist extremism is a serious problem in Mali now, Wikipedia suggests that this is a very recent phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Mali It even quotes a 2005 US Department of State report to that effect. This Guardian article on recent extremism in Mali paints a similar picture: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/03/mali-war-religious-faultlines Likewise, the Catholic Herald, quoting Christian aid workers in Mali: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/08/31/mali-violence-has-not-disrupted-christian-muslim-ties-says-aid-worker/ What is the source for your claim that Muslim violence towards Christians has been common in Mali since the 1960s? Was it the same "someone" who told you Kante's parents had been driven out by Muslim violence? As Kante was born in Paris in 1991, that doesn't fit the story told by Wikipedia, the US State Dept, The Guardian & the Catholic Herald....Source? Did that "someone" smell "of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings" (P. Weller)? I note that you've not replied to Spherical's comment in another thread that you have - or have had - BNP associations....any truth in that? Any Far Right associations that might colour your expectations?
Guest MattP Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 What is the source for your claim that Muslim violence towards Christians has been common in Mali since the 1960s? Was it the same "someone" who told you Kante's parents had been driven out by Muslim violence? As Kante was born in Paris in 1991, that doesn't fit the story told by Wikipedia, the US State Dept, The Guardian & the Catholic Herald....Source? Did that "someone" smell "of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings" (P. Weller)? I note that you've not replied to Spherical's comment in another thread that you have - or have had - BNP associations....any truth in that? Any Far Right associations that might colour your expectations? I won't mention who told me the Kante/Mali story as he works for the club and it wouldn't be fair to put his name on here but I'll happily PM it to you. I have Spherical on ignore (for reasons exactly like this) so didn't see his allegations (although I'm quite interested in what they are now as I'm slightly puzzled) - didn't expect to be answering questions like this but happy to state I've never voted for, been a member of or been to any sort of meeting involving the BNP (or any other far right group), feel free to check the leaked BNP wikileaks documents for my name if you wish.
Finnaldo Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 100,000+ deaths total due to the LRA: http://www.theresolve.org/the-lra-crisis/key-statistics/ That's pretty chunky numbers. Actually you know what...are we really fvcking doing this at this time? Why the fvck am I trying to equate two kinds of extremism and discuss the nature of militancy when all that really should be said is that it's fvcking terrible, that you'd hope the dead get rest and that anyone trying to be a cvnt to someone else because of any words written by anyone centuries ago is a unthinking, sociopathic, idiotic cvnt, no matter who the fvck wrote it or who else believes it. Abrahamic religions in general are terrible. Christianity was used by Rome/Constantinople/Moscow/Avignon to keep their relevancy and power and unfortunately it's still being used in the Middle East to the same ends. Definitely the religions that have caused the most suffering over human history and you've got to wonder what failings we made that some people still rely on this archaic sh!t for guidance and justification after all the advancements we've made in academia and education.
UPinCarolina Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I've seen someone say it was a conspiracy to gain Trump more support.. I wouldn't be surprised if it occurred to Daesh/ISIL that it would help his candidacy.
UPinCarolina Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 This of course being a bigger issue than what happened. Horrible news but you come to expect it now. Insanity is hard to tackle. Are you saying that I'm making light of the situation - or pointing out that the lack of education at the heart of a lot of this mess is?
Guest MattP Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I wouldn't be surprised if it occurred to Daesh/ISIL that it would help his candidacy. Surely ISIS would prefer Clinton? From what I gather she'll carry on similar to Obama and just pretty much leave them be. Ok they might be able to radicalise a few more given the rhetoric and bombs Trump would use, but they'll probably also get wiped off the map, I don't believe for one minute that's what they really want.
Lionator Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Surely ISIS would prefer Clinton? From what I gather she'll carry on similar to Obama and just pretty much leave them be. Ok they might be able to radicalise a few more given the rhetoric and bombs Trump would use, but they'll probably also get wiped off the map, I don't believe for one minute that's what they really want. You could argue that Trump would go gung-ho and leave that area of the world even more unstable than before which is perfect breeding ground for ISIS to rebuild in the Middle East. He would also create a bigger us v them rhetoric which could inspire vulnerable muslims to join this disgraceful cult.
Merging Cultures Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 My boss decided he wanted me to come to the office in Amsterdam today (I am at a workshop in the Hague). It's been a bit difficult as the trains are not going through Schipol. Loads of police around.
Guest MattP Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 You could argue that Trump would go gung-ho and leave that area of the world even more unstable than before which is perfect breeding ground for ISIS to rebuild in the Middle East. He would also create a bigger us v them rhetoric which could inspire vulnerable muslims to join this disgraceful cult. I'm not saying Trump is the answer at all, but more of the same simply can't be the answer either. I'm sure ISIS would want us to believe the last thing we should do is vote for someone who would seek to destroy them, but like any death cult we've seen through time I have to believe that what they fear most is being confronted, if not then we are in trouble to honest, there is no end to ISIS that doesn't involve wiping them out, it's just who is going to be the ones brave enough to do it, ideally the Arab World itself, but if not then the rest of the World can't be shy either. If people are going to sympathise with this lot because we go after them I think they are a lost cause anyway. Hillary Benn nailed it in the commons, these people are fascists and just like any other fascists they will have to be defeated.
Buce Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Whenever anyone speaks of 'Western Civilization', I'm reminded of a Gandhi quote: when asked what he thought of Western civilization, he replied, "I think it would be a very good idea". Perhaps we should use the words, 'Western way of life', because we are no more civilized now than we were then.
Alf Bentley Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I won't mention who told me the Kante/Mali story as he works for the club and it wouldn't be fair to put his name on here but I'll happily PM it to you. I have Spherical on ignore (for reasons exactly like this) so didn't see his allegations (although I'm quite interested in what they are now as I'm slightly puzzled) - didn't expect to be answering questions like this but happy to state I've never voted for, been a member of or been to any sort of meeting involving the BNP (or any other far right group), feel free to check the leaked BNP wikileaks documents for my name if you wish. Please do PM me the identity of your club source for the allegations that Kante's parents were driven out of Mali by Muslim violence. I'd be interested - and discreet. Must be someone very credible with access to highly sensitive information for you to have taken them seriously enough to post that information on here, particularly in the volatile context of a murderous (presumed) Islamist terrorist attack. Was it the same club source who told you that Muslim violence towards Christians had been quite common in Mali since the 1960s, reducing the Christian population from 50% to single figures? If not, what was your source for that information, as I can't see it anywhere obvious via Google? I've no idea about Kante's family history but, unless you have some other source, that comment about general religious relations in Mali seems to be false - and easily checkable. It says a lot about your attitude if you made such a comment in this context without checking its accuracy. I can only imagine your outrage if "someone" - maybe "someone" from the Tory party - told me that, say, Rees-Mogg had committed child abuse and I quoted it on here without checking the validity of the information (I've no such information and no reason to believe he has done anything of the sort, of course). Spherical's comments were here: http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/104752-is-the-labour-partys-problem-with-racism-beyond-repair/page-4 (in case you still cannot read it, it's 2 non-specific suggestions that you have had some involvement with the BNP - but maybe he was joking or fibbing?) I've just been down watching the BBC News and find it sickening to think about what these Islamist (I presume) terrorists have done yet again, and the consequences for those affected, their families, friends etc. On a lower level, I find it despicable that people like Digitalalba and you (more subtly) choose to use these extremist outrages to encourage generalised fear and mistrust of Muslims.
Guest MattP Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I'll PM when I'm on the PC later on. With regards to what I've said - that was exactly why I made sure I said "I can't be certain" before it Alf, it was from a conversation with someone who told me it and works at LCFC (I've deleted the comment though as it is pretty insensitive to speculate on things like that today), I just thought it was relevant to the question you have asked, with regards to Mali I haven't researched it myself, my "knowledge" of it comes only from a colleague I sat next to at work (P.S go ahead with whatever on the Tories, it's not like people don't anyway), I certainly should have done though yes, as from my own quick googling I can see this appears to be more of a recent trend. If you think I've tried to use this to encourage generalised fear and mistrust of Muslims that I can only apologise, it was never my intention.
Buce Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I think when discussing 'Islam', it's worth remembering that it is (probably) as diverse as Christianity. Apart from the obvious schism between Sunni and Shia (Catholic/Protestant), there are many other offshoots (think Jehova's Witnesses etc). Whilst it is a nonsense to say Islam isn't compatible with our way of life, I think it is fair to say that the way that some Muslims interpret Islam is less compatible with our way of life than how it is interpreted by the majority of Muslims. The very same thing can be said of how some Christians interpret Christianity. Religion isn't evil per se, it is merely used by bad people to justify evil acts.
Wymsey Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 I think I know who @@MattP is on about as well, regarding Kante and past, via same employed person at club.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Pretty certain that Trump's foreign policy is to basically build a big wall round the U.S. and let the rest of the world get on with it. In any case, it's a terrible tragedy of human engineering, done by evil people. Arguing about the politics of the situation seems pretty cold right now. People, through no fault of their own, have died indiscriminately. Being reported now that Islamic State are claiming responsibility, which was pretty much a given anyway.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 But that's the point ..we have NO control over EU migrants ....what is nonsense is to have open borders which allows thousands of ISIS trained terrorists back into the whole of EUROPE..Belgium intelligence has proved it has failed, the Paris attacker was living right under their noses with the help of certain members of that community... our government is powerless to stop these sleepers from coming here...madnessSleeper - an agent playing the long game, waiting to be activated at a later date, living amongst the enemy as an everyday, law-abiding citizen.So how exactly do you intend to stop someone from coming here who is already here? That's assuming they are; who knows. But simply stopping "legal" migration won't stop determined loonies.
Danno Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Have to laugh at people who think Donald Trump would magically stop all of this.
Merging Cultures Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Police fired warning shots at Amsterdam train station. My boss drove me back to the hotel thank goodness.
Carl the Llama Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 What a fuching day. Woke up to news that a bomb had gone off in a building near my dad's offices - it was actually in a metro train at the station before his but these are apparently small details when telling someone a family member could have been in danger. Back to having my bag checked on the way into the supermarket by security personnel who look vastly under-qualified to deal with any terrorist threat. Oh and some of you lot on the first page need to be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. Your divisive outlook is exactly the sort of thing that makes days like today possible.
Nalis Posted 22 March 2016 Posted 22 March 2016 Another attack near EU HQ....puts the lie to camerons claim we safer in the EU...there is a 5th column of muslim radicals that we have let in to europe..and who are being shielded by other muslims.. We must get out of the EU and control our own boarders or get used to this here aswell... Didnt take long for a Eurosceptic to grasp the chance to use this awful attack as as ammo for a Brexit. Thoughts are with the victims.
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