Defensive Shambles

[Monsell1976]

People seem to forget before last season, Morgan, Simpson where bang average.

So after a season in a lifetime, why are we surprised they have returned to what we know they are.

Options should/ need to be brought in, as picking the same players, who keep making the same mistakes, only give you the same results.

If we want to move forward, and progress we need a solid back four, and a step up in class, and some of the current guaranteed starters becoming squad players.

[Tuna]

Well I think the expectation of the club was that they would continue to play at the same level from last season. They've let their standards drop and the club has not counted on it.

[sylofox]

16 hours ago, Col city fan said:

One more time....Wes left Costa which was clearly wrong.

But the ball should never have gotten across the box in the first place. Wes I think wasn't expecting it just to flick through the 6 yard area like it did. Like at Man Utd, Amartey was marking the first man, didn't get there and I think it was Pedro? simply flicked the corner over and we were exposed.

Its no coincidence that a defense that was so rock solid last season has gone back to being as shaky as it ever was under Pearson. Away from home, the midfield is carved open like a knife through butter. Again, watch the footage back and then compare it to goal number 3? against Man Utd.

Wes was expecting nothing that goal was all his fault. To start with he was never looking at the ball just at Costa. Saying that he still lost his man and had no clue where he was. Last moan he was rooted to the spot he never made an attempt for ball or player.

 

His head is not with it per haps thinking of Tuesday. But we should not be in this position we should have cover to drop any player if need be. He needs to be dropped to wake him up. And not just Wes Vardy and Mahrez. Not for 60mins to give them a rest but for one or two games.

 

DILLY DING DILLY DONG wake up lads you really are letting the club the fans and yourselves down.

 

Perhaps Mr CR needs a little dilly ding himself wake up man 442 just ain't cutting it now in the prem.

 

 

 

 

 

[Max Power]

It seems odd to me that having been priced out of a move for Keane we just decided "ok, we don't need a centre back". Either it was position we needed strengthening (obviously) or it wasn't. 

 

Look at Chelsea. David Luiz was like their 5th choice but they needed a defender and kept getting knocked back for their top targets. 

 

We look old and slow and shaky at the back now. God knows what happens if we have an injury or suspension or two...

[Nugent]

Whole defence has been awful. Fuchs needs to stop twatting about on social media and get back to how he was playing last year, he was woeful yesterday.

[AjcW]

Wes literally hasn't had a break for three years... not a summer... nothing. Why does no one in the management team have the balls to tell him to take a few games off? 

 

Its all all well and good slagging Hernandez but why not give him a run at centre back, his position, before we do that? 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

21 hours ago, MurphyMagic said:

Get rid of Hernandez, he is garbage. 

He's not a right back. He spent last season excelling at centre back against the likes of Atletico and Real. 

[lgfualol]

I'd love to see Hernandez in the middle. Someone that doesn't completely shit themselves when they have the ball in central defence! Same with Benalouane.

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, lgfualol said:

I'd love to see Hernandez in the middle. Someone that doesn't completely shit themselves when they have the ball in central defence! Same with Benalouane.

Nah, you're replacing one for another. It's far more complex than that. Simply putting Hernandez in the middle isn't going to stem the wave of attacks that our defenders are having to cope with.

[Guest ttfn]

On 26 September 2016 at 09:13, Babylon said:

If you look below I've added the average position maps of Liverpool away last year, to Liverpool away this year. We lost both games but only got destroyed in one.

 

Look how much narrower and deeper the defenders are. Huth is playing almost as a midfielder in the 4-1, with so much space between centre backs and full backs it makes it easier for people to play the ball through the defence. The Difference in positioning of Mahrez, no longer giving cover in the space between CM and RB. Fuchs was so wide that it meant Albrighton had to fill the gap between CB and FULL back. And the strikers are much further forward meaning the CM's are more isolated.

 

I thought it was good play by Liverpool as they pushed their full backs right up and that dragged us wide. You think back to the first goal, it was Milner playing left back who was right up the pitch, pulled over Simpson, Morgan moved across to fill the space and a hole appeared. Defences are sitting deeper, which not only stops the counters, but also means the our strikers move futher up the pitch to play "on the shoulder" leaving more holes in CM and us having to pass it much further to reach them.

This is a great analysis.

 

I'd add though that (with specific reference to liverpool's first goal) people are just making stupid decisions. On that first goal Morgan went with Sturridge (who was running nowhere dangerous and into an area occupied by Simpson) when he had no need to. Last year he and Huth never left the width of the penalty area; this year they're all over the place.

 

Simpson, as well, is about 10 yards further up the pitch on average despite the fact that we were getting absolutely battered whilst he was on the pitch.

 

We really are an absolute shambles at the moment from back to front.

[smileysharad]

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.

[Manwell Pablo]

We have issues all over the pitch at the moment. But yes, defensively Saturday was dreadful. Marking for the corner, dreadful, Hernanzdes and Huth going for the same ball for the second, dreadful. I for one have no idea why, if we want to rotate things, why Danny Simpson is probably going to play Tuesday and Hernandes played Saturday, Hernandez has had his best moments in the CL and Simpson has barely put a foot wrong domestically, makes 0 sense unless your being sentimental and don't want Danny to miss out on European football but sorry this is professional football, sod that.

 

I've got to admit I was concerned about us not being useful in the final third playing 4-5-1/4-3-3 but if we are going to register zero shots on target playing 4-4-2 away at the tougher sides we really may as well stick the extra man in midfield and try and frustrate, sit deep, and try and launch counter attacks utilising our quicker players. Can't get any more toothless than 0 shots on target, at least we will be harder to beat....although again having said that need to seriously sort our marking from set pieces out, badly.

 

I'm still confident we will pick up more than enough points at home to be mid table, but we need to seriously start putting some points on the board if we want to get back into Europe.

[Babylon]

A couple of screen shots again of us v Chelsea. I've compared our home game as the away game was a dead rubber with a number of team changes.

 

A few noticeable similarities again. CB's playing a higher line once again, full backs playing higher again, strikers much further up the pitch again. You'd think you'd be deeper and more compact when you're getting hammered.

 

But It's noticeable also how much more of the ball we've seen in these games despite getting spanked. 45.1% possession and 348 passes (103 in attacking third), verses 34.4% 160 passes (117) attacking third in the 2-1 win.

 

The oppo again sat far deeper than they did previously, with their CB sat on the edge of their own box and were content in letting us have and do nothing with the ball. Similarities to most of our hammerings. They draw us out by letting us have the ball and by sitting deeper, then exploit the space that's left behind.

 

We need to be far smarter against the better teams as they are totally exploiting our inability on the ball and turning it against us.

 

 

 

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

Nah, you're replacing one for another. It's far more complex than that. Simply putting Hernandez in the middle isn't going to stem the wave of attacks that our defenders are having to cope with.

At CDM then? we need all the help we can get in midfield 

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

At CDM then? we need all the help we can get in midfield 

 

Again while it's something we can try, this 4-5-1 will solve everything attitude is also very very wrong. There are problems in defense, glaring ones, ones being exposed away at bigger teams in particular in defending corners. That's another one scored this weekend, they only had 8, that's a pretty average amount so it's not like we are being asked to defend more than other teams. Westley needs to get his finger out and start leading by example again.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

I think the solution to all our problems is to score a goal.

[Col city fan]

7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think the solution to all our problems is to score a goal.

This is true isn't it. There are concerns rightly about leaking goals but we aren't scoring too many either are we? I couldn't believe what I was seeing on Saturday. We have two of the quickest (but smallest) strikers in the division in Musa and Vardy yet the tactic was to go long ball? Luiz (who is a shite defender..I'm sorry, but he is when under pressure) had a bloody field day! The lack of any sort of midfield play against Chelsea was criminal. As in, building up attacks in any meaningful way. You won't see many worse Premiership performances this season than our first half display on Saturday.

[Col city fan]

13 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Again while it's something we can try, this 4-5-1 will solve everything attitude is also very very wrong. There are problems in defense, glaring ones, ones being exposed away at bigger teams in particular in defending corners. That's another one scored this weekend, they only had 8, that's a pretty average amount so it's not like we are being asked to defend more than other teams. Westley needs to get his finger out and start leading by example again.

 

 

You're right. The back four look shaky.

Like we were under Pearson, I ask again..WHY?

A defence that looked utterly solid last season now looks like a League 1 outfit.

Babs explains it well but I still think they aren't covered by any sort of midfield. 

We know our back four, when put under an onslaught will buckle. And they are. I recall some brilliant blocks made by Wes on Saturday but there's TOO MANY of them. Personally I think Huth has been worse. Little mention has been made of how he was nutmegged for their final goal. It was funny to see. Or it would be if I weren't a City fan.

[Happy Fox]

Our central midfield is getting overrun that is clear as Daylight.

 

Drinkwater is trying to do Kante's role as well as his own, it is too much to ask of him.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

15 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

This is true isn't it. There are concerns rightly about leaking goals but we aren't scoring too many either are we? I couldn't believe what I was seeing on Saturday. We have two of the quickest (but smallest) strikers in the division in Musa and Vardy yet the tactic was to go long ball? Luiz (who is a shite defender..I'm sorry, but he is when under pressure) had a bloody field day! The lack of any sort of midfield play against Chelsea was criminal. As in, building up attacks in any meaningful way. You won't see many worse Premiership performances this season than our first half display on Saturday.

All the tactics, formations and all the other bullshit that goes with it means naff all if we can't do the most important thing in a football match until it's too late. We score first and the other team can't sit back. Simples. And sitting back defending and inviting the other team on is not exactly helping with that.

[Manwell Pablo]

12 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

You're right. The back four look shaky.

Like we were under Pearson, I ask again..WHY?

A defence that looked utterly solid last season now looks like a League 1 outfit.

Babs explains it well but I still think they aren't covered by any sort of midfield. 

We know our back four, when put under an onslaught will buckle. And they are. I recall some brilliant blocks made by Wes on Saturday but there's TOO MANY of them. Personally I think Huth has been worse. Little mention has been made of how he was nutmegged for their final goal. It was funny to see. Or it would be if I weren't a City fan.

 

The back four looked better under Pearson than they do now, they ballsed up a bit but we lost most games by the old goal and we were genuinely unlucky with decisions (Morgan ball to face handball anyone?)  we are getting annihilated away from home at the moment, we aren't even in games, with no one to blame but ourselves. As I've said there are clearly problems all over the pitch when coming up against decent sides away from home.

 

I think you need to look at a few games from last season if you think our defense always crumble under onslaughts. Kante won the balls to setup the counters granted, our defense was under immense pressure at times during last season and coped well, we spent 3/4 of last season allowing every team we played to come at us and have the ball 60-70% of the time, Kante played his part but the back four were fantastic as well and were often under heavy pressure. This season totally different, Kante going is part of it, another part of it is they are simply not hitting the same levels they were last season, their performances are not up to the same standard. As I've said you can put the extra man in midfield but when you're letting in a corner every game (and I'll say again, we aren't conceding that many) you'll still more than likely lose the game. Morgans defending for Costa's goal was criminal. Huth has been just as bad at times as well. 

 

We did ourselves no favors before we'd even kicked off Saturday, I feel Ranieri was happy to rest players for Tuesday and hope for an unlikely result, tbf if we play well and win tomorrow It'll be hard to criticize him for it. We have to take Saturday seriously though, we need to win a good % of our games against teams like Palace in order to finish in something resembling a respectable position. 

[Ollie93]

8 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

Our central midfield is getting overrun that is clear as Daylight.

 

Drinkwater is trying to do Kante's role as well as his own, it is too much to ask of him.

 

 

This.

[foxy boxing]

I've said it before but defensive drills on the training ground everyday with morgan and huth getting back to how good they were last season if they can working as a unit defensively with the full backs and the holding midfielders. we need this sorting soon as. is it a season too far in the top flight for morgan and huth I don't know

[Ollie93]

It's not just down to morgan and huth though, yes they were garbage against chelsea and im not defending them (pardon the pun). But on saturday there were moments when one simple ball played from the back cut our whole team open. The issue like predominantly, in my opinion of course, of us being over run in the centre of the park, whilst pressing teams to high.

[RowlattsFox]

We are unfortunately seeing players returning to their natural standard, which to me just makes last season even more incredible. We need to remember where some of these players have come from, Morgan has spent most of his career in the Championship, Huth was deemed no longer good enough for Stoke 2 years ago, maybe it is one season too many for him. Last season took a lot out of them and their concentration levels seem to be have dropped massively.

 

With hindsight I wish we had prepared for this better in the summer, and I'm sure we'll be looking at refreshing central defence in January. However it would have been incredibly harsh to replace morgan/huth in the summer on the back of their season, another case of being victims of success.

 

I am not worried yet, our problems have been highlighted more due to having these games back to back, if they were spread out over the season we probably wouldn't be that concerned. We have already shown this season that we have enough to beat teams, as long as confidence isn't dented too much as a result of the batterings.

 

From an expectation point of view we need to forget last season, we have a squad of a mid-table team at best (couple of exceptions) and I'm confident we will finish somewhere around the top 10 come the end of the season.