fuchsntf Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 5 hours ago, Facecloth said: How can an international team be a mess? The squad isn't set in stone, he can call up who he likes. It's not like club management where he'd be stuck with a squad until the next transfer window. It's a mess because he's called up mostly the same squad as the last couple of idiots we had in charge. Nothing could be as Simple and to the point....like your member name...covers everything!!! He had his chance to set out his own stall, he decided he would prefer to rent whatcwas already available.!!!!
m4DD0gg Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 The press certainly do not help matters with their over the top criticism but its nothing to what goes on in Spain or Italy or many other countries. End of the day England are collectively shit. Even with the golden generation, individually there were some amazing players but put them together and 10/10 it was a mess. Sad really.
Brainy Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Come on we need a bit of balance between this "form, not reputation" bollocks. How far back are we looking at form? Since the last international break? Imagine going to a tournament with a spine of Tom Heaton, Steve Cook, Jack Cork and Frazer Campbell? I bet some idiots would accept that because "atleast they will have passion!!!" The two year period between tournaments, certainly for us over the last decade, are for building a team and making the most of limited time together to get to know your teammates and learn to play together in a system. Do people really want us to drop our best striker (probably Kane) because he's only scored 1 in his last 4) for some bang average player in a hot spell of form from West Brom or Stoke? Sure there are some players that I cant understand getting a call up, Lingaard should perhaps be in the squad but has already been drafted into the starting eleven. Vardy, in form all of last season, has been a bit part player for the past 18 months. If Rashford played for Soton he wouldn't have had a look in yet. Form is temporary, class is permanent so they say... not that any of our players are THAT good but i'd still rather have Sturridge in a tournament than Jay Rodriguez
Wymsey Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Go on, those who think England are poor all over, who would be your first choice? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37632101 (Albrighton and Drinkwater included in options)
Captain... Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 What I don't understand is the bulk of the squad come from Spurs, the hardest working side in the league and Liverpool who employ the Gengen press. Dier, Ali, Kane, Rose, Walker, Sturridge, Henderson, Clyne, Milner. You add in Vardy and Drinkwater who will chase down everything, Sterling at Man City where they employ the 5 seconds to win the ball back, Rashford and Townsend who love to run at people and play without fear. The question is why are these players so pedestrian for England? Everything is slow sideways and easily telegraphed, there is no movement and everyone is playing with fear. Slovenia were chasing us down, putting us under pressure and forcing mistakes. They played like it really mattered, we didn't. We have talented players and if we attacked the game like Slovenia did we would have won, but we let Slovenia dictate the play. If players like Walcott and Lingard won't play with that intensity then bin them off.
Carl the Llama Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said: Go on, those who think England are poor all over, who would be your first choice? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37632101 (Albrighton and Drinkwater included in options) Easy: Albrighton on the bench too.
AKCJ Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said: Go on, those who think England are poor all over, who would be your first choice? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37632101 (Albrighton and Drinkwater included in options) I went for; Hart Clyne Smalling Stones Shaw Sterling Drinkwater Henderson Lallana Vardy Kane
Guest Col city fan Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 14 hours ago, Walkers said: We have been on a downward spiral for about 10 years now when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008. Since then, gradually getting worse year on year all I ever read or hear is negativity about our side, even when we're winning, whether its San Marino (they're shit) or Germany (they played their reserves/it's only a friendly/whatever other excuse they can think of). In the early 2000's and before the type of player that represented us was (allegedly) someone who wants to play for England, is proud to wear the shirt, grew up with one dream and this is it blablabla. Our team today is fairly young and a lot of our players would only still have been fans themselves when McClaren was in charge. Do our players today still come through the youth ranks of English football wanting to represent their country as much as players did 20 years ago? Why would you want to put yourself in an arena where it it virtually impossible to do ANYTHING right? I am English and if I was 19 I think I would genuinely be looking to see if I could possibly represent any other country. I would rather play for Gibraltar and get battered. Germany tonight beat Northern Ireland 2-0 at home. A better team than us beat a side that is a similar level to Slovenia. If we were to beat Slovenia 2-0 at home the reaction would be so and so shouldn't be in the team. There is no passion (can somebody please tell me how this can be detected in a player?). What do we reckon the German reaction was to their game tonight? I bet they see it as a solid result and they will move forwards from it. No moaning. Our record goalscorer gets booed because he (our captain) is chosen to start a game. What the ****? How can we be surprised or moan at the fact that our players play with fear knowing that one misplaced pass will see them get ridiculed? It's all good and well saying that what fans say shouldn't affect them but they are still humans. Just because you earn silly money doesn't mean you are immune to having your confidence knocked. I haven't watched tonights game but after the Euro's Joe Hart was made out to be League 2 level. Tonight some people are singing his praises, through gritted teeth of course. Oh and also this belief that we're over rated. Don't you have to be rated to be over rated? Why was Sterling not playing last night? Injured?
Matt Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 "I inherited a mess" ....Hang on Gareth, you had the choice to pick other players but no you stuck with the boring same old players with the boring same old set up, if you inherited such a mess then why didn't you call different players up, change things? Is he being dictated too over squad/team selection, if so it'd explain a lot and prove what I've suggested in the past as correct. I agree it is a mess, a big one, but to say he "inherited" a mess, no, he "inherited" nothing, he had choice to change it, he chose to stick with the proven failures. I didn't watch it Saturday or last night but I've heard and read enough, more and more people are agreeing they're done with England. Until something within the FA changes nothing will change for the positive, it'll only get worse.
Donut Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 11 hours ago, ttfn said: Why do we need to create these players? There's more than one way to skin a cat. You saw with your own eyes last season a fairly technically limited Leicester side win a 38 game PL season, overcoming several far more technically accomplished sides along the way. Over a 7 game international tournament there's absolutely no reason a similarly "inferior" side couldn't do the same. Wales, all of whose players have come out of the English football system in one way or another, got further this summer than we have for 20 years. Primarily it's a problem of mentality, not just amongst the players but at the FA as well. Why do you need to create these players? Because if you want a lasting legacy of winning things, and actually being a good team, then you need players with skills for top level football. Why do you think Brazil have 5 world cup wins? why have Germany and Italy got pedigree at international level that goes back years? because of the skills they produce in players, being technically better. Sure, we could just do a Greece. When all the stars align and we shithouse our way to a cup. In the last qualifying campaign Greece were being beaten TWICE by the Faroe Islands. I dont see much in the way of evidence to suggest theyre going to be an international force anytime soon. England in their current state could ride a wave for a bit like Wales. Essentially the team is driven forwards by Bale and to a lesser extent Ramsey, they rode a bit of a wave and made a semi final. Thats fine, but theye not going to develop into a top football nation any time soon. Or, alternatively, we could stay shit at football and find a coach who could set us up to be one of the worst, but most pragmatic football teams the world has ever seen and cobble together 7 results to win a trophy. The lasting effect on the type of players we produce and the skills they need right down to grass roots level? fvck all.
VLC86 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 5 hours ago, Walkers said: Come on we need a bit of balance between this "form, not reputation" bollocks. How far back are we looking at form? Since the last international break? Imagine going to a tournament with a spine of Tom Heaton, Steve Cook, Jack Cork and Frazer Campbell? I bet some idiots would accept that because "atleast they will have passion!!!" The two year period between tournaments, certainly for us over the last decade, are for building a team and making the most of limited time together to get to know your teammates and learn to play together in a system. Do people really want us to drop our best striker (probably Kane) because he's only scored 1 in his last 4) for some bang average player in a hot spell of form from West Brom or Stoke? Sure there are some players that I cant understand getting a call up, Lingaard should perhaps be in the squad but has already been drafted into the starting eleven. Vardy, in form all of last season, has been a bit part player for the past 18 months. If Rashford played for Soton he wouldn't have had a look in yet. Form is temporary, class is permanent so they say... not that any of our players are THAT good but i'd still rather have Sturridge in a tournament than Jay Rodriguez Strange post considering not one person from what i can see has named any of the players in your post.
Brainy Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 9 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said: Strange post considering not one person from what i can see has named any of the players in your post. I'm talking about people outside the world of FT....
VLC86 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 1 minute ago, Walkers said: I'm talking about people outside the world of FT.... Ah ok, if anyone really wants us to line up with all of them players they are more deluded than the people in charge.
Dan Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Can't understand the ttfn and Donut argument. Surely it's possible to do both?
Dan Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Current England side for me... Hart Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Rose Dier Drinkwater - Alli Lallana - Kane - Sterling I don't think it's anywhere near ideal either, but it's a better base for a side than this evidently useless 4-2-3-1. Lets at least get a system in place first. It's also massively open to change. There's no set in stone England side for me. Rotate when necessary.
ScouseFox Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 hart walker stones smalling rose hendo drinky lallana alli sterling kane probs wins most world cups for the next decade
Donut Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 33 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said: Can't understand the ttfn and Donut argument. Surely it's possible to do both? My basic point was, what would give you a better chance of winning a tournament in the long run; 1) The Greece and Wales approach....get lucky for a stretch of 7 games and lift the trophy, carried by maybe one superstar or one player on a hot streak who grabs some goals, but ultimately youre a side full of poor footballers and this would take having everything on your side during the tournament 2) Actually produce footballers with the requred skills to play the biggest nations and pass the ball, dribble, move intelligently etc. What would give the nation a chance of winning tournaments and actually building up a legacy? The England team as it is NOW could do a Greece with some luck on its side and some basically very rigid management. That no one wants. I wouldnt be moaning if we did do a Greece btw. Just saying that our chances would improve if our quality did
Manwell Pablo Posted 13 October 2016 Posted 13 October 2016 12 hours ago, Donut said: My basic point was, what would give you a better chance of winning a tournament in the long run; 1) The Greece and Wales approach....get lucky for a stretch of 7 games and lift the trophy, carried by maybe one superstar or one player on a hot streak who grabs some goals, but ultimately youre a side full of poor footballers and this would take having everything on your side during the tournament 2) Actually produce footballers with the requred skills to play the biggest nations and pass the ball, dribble, move intelligently etc. What would give the nation a chance of winning tournaments and actually building up a legacy? The England team as it is NOW could do a Greece with some luck on its side and some basically very rigid management. That no one wants. I wouldnt be moaning if we did do a Greece btw. Just saying that our chances would improve if our quality did Not it bloody couldn't There is not a manager alive who is going to get Rooney and Co to want it as much as that Greek squad did, no chance. Not to mention as much as people view that as a footballing freak they actually had some very good footballers in that team. Whenever we play anyone, any good, competitively, we lose. It's been that way for some time...Honestly cannot remember the last time we produced a result in a competitive fixture that i was genuinely really happy with could go far back as 2002!
David Guiza Posted 13 October 2016 Posted 13 October 2016 8 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: Not it bloody couldn't There is not a manager alive who is going to get Rooney and Co to want it as much as that Greek squad did, no chance. Not to mention as much as people view that as a footballing freak they actually had some very good footballers in that team. Whenever we play anyone, any good, competitively, we lose. It's been that way for some time...Honestly cannot remember the last time we produced a result in a competitive fixture that i was genuinely really happy with could go far back as 2002! Argentina 1-0 in 2002 is probably the most recent over a real top team. One in 14 years is fairly abysmal though. The 3-2 Sweden game in 2012 was enjoyable; though the Italy game ruined any memory of that.
Manwell Pablo Posted 13 October 2016 Posted 13 October 2016 24 minutes ago, David Guiza said: Argentina 1-0 in 2002 is probably the most recent over a real top team. One in 14 years is fairly abysmal though. The 3-2 Sweden game in 2012 was enjoyable; though the Italy game ruined any memory of that. There was that followed up by totally taking Denmark apart and giving Brazil a proper go, hard not to take a lot out of that tournament, 2004 was alright but we didn't beat anyone any good, after that downhill aint the word. I enjoyed Sweden but it was a pretty a relatively poor Sweden side compared to some of the teams they've had in the past.
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