Gary Eatfood Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 1 hour ago, Donut said: I think one reason i struggle to warm to England, is i know the character of the players more intimately than i do other countries for one. When i grew up, first real tournament i vividly remember was USA 94. I just purely enjoyed the football, I remember all the late goals Italy scored to make the fina until Baggio missed that penalty, I remeber Romario, Bebeto, Dunga bossing it for Brazil. But i didnt actually KNOW the character of the players. And likewise now, in other countries, the same holds true to a large degree. However, i do know that in recent times watching England, John Terry was a racist, i know Ashley Cole wanted sympathy for only being offered a massive Arsenal contract instead of a seismic one, I know Rooney as holding Man Utd to ransom whilst not delivering for England, Ferdinand missing a drugs ban and partying in Soho when he was given compassionate leave by his club, Jack Wilshere being caught more than once smoking FFS when hes supposed to be a top level athlete. Makes me think.......how can i warm to these people when im basically watching a collective group of bellends. And i might be completely wrong, i just get this vibe coming from the camp, especially at tournaments, where it is just a bellends jamboree. I dont expect them to win major tournaments when you look at who they are up against, but i honestly think they dont care that they finish bottom of world cup groups. They dont care they were embarrased by Iceland. Its just the vibe they give off. And as for the football, they do nothing to excite me. I watch England out of duty, but i never see a good game. I see performances from people who make international football look like a chore. Its hard work sometimes. It's simple. The problem is they are overpaid, over-hyped and overrated.
Carl the Llama Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Literally just remembered this was on. I mean I passed a pub showing the game earlier and had a little chuckle that it was still 0-0 after 58 minutes but then I got on with my night and promptly forgot about it once more. Having another little chuckle at the scoreline now. What a joke the national team's become.
Brainy Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 We have been on a downward spiral for about 10 years now when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008. Since then, gradually getting worse year on year all I ever read or hear is negativity about our side, even when we're winning, whether its San Marino (they're shit) or Germany (they played their reserves/it's only a friendly/whatever other excuse they can think of). In the early 2000's and before the type of player that represented us was (allegedly) someone who wants to play for England, is proud to wear the shirt, grew up with one dream and this is it blablabla. Our team today is fairly young and a lot of our players would only still have been fans themselves when McClaren was in charge. Do our players today still come through the youth ranks of English football wanting to represent their country as much as players did 20 years ago? Why would you want to put yourself in an arena where it it virtually impossible to do ANYTHING right? I am English and if I was 19 I think I would genuinely be looking to see if I could possibly represent any other country. I would rather play for Gibraltar and get battered. Germany tonight beat Northern Ireland 2-0 at home. A better team than us beat a side that is a similar level to Slovenia. If we were to beat Slovenia 2-0 at home the reaction would be so and so shouldn't be in the team. There is no passion (can somebody please tell me how this can be detected in a player?). What do we reckon the German reaction was to their game tonight? I bet they see it as a solid result and they will move forwards from it. No moaning. Our record goalscorer gets booed because he (our captain) is chosen to start a game. What the ****? How can we be surprised or moan at the fact that our players play with fear knowing that one misplaced pass will see them get ridiculed? It's all good and well saying that what fans say shouldn't affect them but they are still humans. Just because you earn silly money doesn't mean you are immune to having your confidence knocked. I haven't watched tonights game but after the Euro's Joe Hart was made out to be League 2 level. Tonight some people are singing his praises, through gritted teeth of course. Oh and also this belief that we're over rated. Don't you have to be rated to be over rated?
jaqo88 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 5 hours ago, trabuch said: I wonder if Messi would have got anywhere if he'd been born in England? Or would he have been considered too small and ended up working in Tescos? Tesco for sure
lgfualol Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 9 hours ago, ScouseFox said: we didn't qualify in 2008. the US of fuc king A finished above us in 2010 before we got annihilated by germany. we scraped to pens in 2012. we finished bottom of a group that costa rica won in 2014. we lost to iceland after finishing below fu cking wales a few months ago. i'm not sure any type of failure is going to teach anyone anything when nobody really seems to give a flying fu ck. I had somehow erased those from my memory. Ergh.
Guest ttfn Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 8 hours ago, Donut said: I would say because the skills we believe are needed to thrive in "our" football arent the ones that win games at the highest highest level. What technically brilliant players to we produce? we produce players with physicality, athleticism, power......sure those things are important of course they are Do we produce players who can unlock the door with a quality pass? do we produce intelligent players? players who can dribble past players on the inside and outside, with both feet? very very few. And i think its because we dont put an importance on attributes like this. Young players being loaned out is seen as a "hardening up" process....to put them up against rugged hackers from Southend United and Chesterfield. Probably out attitudes as fans dont help either. Would you get disgruntled if you saw Leicester passing the ball for 15 passes, patiently waiting for an opening to exploit? people dont want to see that even though we need to develop players who are all technically good enough to do this. Why do we need to create these players? There's more than one way to skin a cat. You saw with your own eyes last season a fairly technically limited Leicester side win a 38 game PL season, overcoming several far more technically accomplished sides along the way. Over a 7 game international tournament there's absolutely no reason a similarly "inferior" side couldn't do the same. Wales, all of whose players have come out of the English football system in one way or another, got further this summer than we have for 20 years. Primarily it's a problem of mentality, not just amongst the players but at the FA as well.
lgfualol Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 9 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said: Why aren't we producing those players? Surely this is the question that needs answering, and we should be putting some form of plan in place to get those players through. Compare the amount of coaches/football training facilities in England and somewhere like Germany for instance. Where I live in Germania there is two top class facilities 5 minute walks away, indoor pitches, heated pitches, gyms, etc and that is in a suburb of a small city. Everywhere you go there is something and tons of kids playing, which I didnt see a lot when I lived in England. Also the emphasis on "big and strong" is still apparent. More chance of a 6'1 15 year old who is shit on the ball progressing than a 5'5 player who can dribble and find killer passes but hasn't had a growth spurt yet. I didnt even get to play football often in P.E, but I played a ton of Rugby which was shit.
Guest Col city fan Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 5 hours ago, Walkers said: We have been on a downward spiral for about 10 years now when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008. Since then, gradually getting worse year on year all I ever read or hear is negativity about our side, even when we're winning, whether its San Marino (they're shit) or Germany (they played their reserves/it's only a friendly/whatever other excuse they can think of). In the early 2000's and before the type of player that represented us was (allegedly) someone who wants to play for England, is proud to wear the shirt, grew up with one dream and this is it blablabla. Our team today is fairly young and a lot of our players would only still have been fans themselves when McClaren was in charge. Do our players today still come through the youth ranks of English football wanting to represent their country as much as players did 20 years ago? Why would you want to put yourself in an arena where it it virtually impossible to do ANYTHING right? I am English and if I was 19 I think I would genuinely be looking to see if I could possibly represent any other country. I would rather play for Gibraltar and get battered. Germany tonight beat Northern Ireland 2-0 at home. A better team than us beat a side that is a similar level to Slovenia. If we were to beat Slovenia 2-0 at home the reaction would be so and so shouldn't be in the team. There is no passion (can somebody please tell me how this can be detected in a player?). What do we reckon the German reaction was to their game tonight? I bet they see it as a solid result and they will move forwards from it. No moaning. Our record goalscorer gets booed because he (our captain) is chosen to start a game. What the ****? How can we be surprised or moan at the fact that our players play with fear knowing that one misplaced pass will see them get ridiculed? It's all good and well saying that what fans say shouldn't affect them but they are still humans. Just because you earn silly money doesn't mean you are immune to having your confidence knocked. I haven't watched tonights game but after the Euro's Joe Hart was made out to be League 2 level. Tonight some people are singing his praises, through gritted teeth of course. Oh and also this belief that we're over rated. Don't you have to be rated to be over rated? Good post, but the reason why is obvious. We have no 'credit at the bank'. It's that simple. The Germans over the past two decades have won shitloads. They can afford to only beat a more lowly international side 2-0 and to get away with it, re. Their fans. The Germans WILL see this as just a comfortable win en route to qualification because that's what's they've done for successive tournaments, AND they've then gone on to win some. Internationally, we've won nothing, we've been nowhere near to winning anything for years. The Euros 2016 was a disgrace. That word in my mind is very apt. It was disgraceful. We've got no credit at the bank. Our fans are sick to death of us performing so badly in tournaments time after time after time and going through so many managers that we are now looking to take the piss really. We will latch on whatever we can (such as all the Rooney stuff) to really say... 'England are shite, the FA are incompetent and the manager is clueless'. Personally, I think any love for the international team, any patience that we had with the players and the manager went after the last tournament. I know if did for me. I was one of those willing Slovenia to beat us last night. Reason being i think it's going to take something pretty dramatic (I don't know what) to really change things at international level. If we would have won 1-0 last night, the press would have been accepting of us achieving 'a solid away win' or something. When the reality is that we played terribly.
Benjani Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 The reason people don't care about England is because the players play for other clubs but Leicester. You won't admit it but it's true. Say the England team had 6 Leicester players in you would love them. You can hardly say the reason you don't like watching England is because they are overpaid. So are all footballers. So are all our players. The fact is people hate other clubs in this country but there own. To say you don't like watching England because we are playing badly also is wrong. You still support Leicester when we are shit? Why are we allowed to play badly but England not? Slovenia are a decent side. Why do you expect us to win easily? There goalie plays for atletico Madrid. Josep Ilicic? He's quality. They have some very good players. It's embarrassing that we all think we should be beating everyone.
GaelicFox Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 23 minutes ago, Col city fan said: Good post, but the reason why is obvious. We have no 'credit at the bank'. It's that simple. The Germans over the past two decades have won shitloads. They can afford to only beat a more lowly international side 2-0 and to get away with it, re. Their fans. The Germans WILL see this as just a comfortable win en route to qualification because that's what's they've done for successive tournaments, AND they've then gone on to win some. Internationally, we've won nothing, we've been nowhere near to winning anything for years. The Euros 2016 was a disgrace. That word in my mind is very apt. It was disgraceful. We've got no credit at the bank. Our fans are sick to death of us performing so badly in tournaments time after time after time and going through so many managers that we are now looking to take the piss really. We will latch on whatever we can (such as all the Rooney stuff) to really say... 'England are shite, the FA are incompetent and the manager is clueless'. Personally, I think any love for the international team, any patience that we had with the players and the manager went after the last tournament. I know if did for me. I was one of those willing Slovenia to beat us last night. Reason being i think it's going to take something pretty dramatic (I don't know what) to really change things at international level. If we would have won 1-0 last night, the press would have been accepting of us achieving 'a solid away win' or something. When the reality is that we played terribly. And loosing to Iceland a country with the population of a small city wasn't dramatic enough ..... seriously England fans are deluded the issue isn't on the field the issue is the culture off it , booing Rooney and others , media set ups , the FA run by cretins , the historical player scapegoating , the rise of overseas players in the premier league until Englands football coaching and admin , its "amazing"support and media sorts its shit out you Guys will be constantly facing humiliation at the hands of The likes of Iceland and Slovenia !
Captain... Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 I really enjoyed the game, thought Slovenia were just like us last season, full of pace energy and 100% commitment shame they didn't have the quality in attack otherwise it could have been a comfortable win. It was also a shame the resorted to fouling late on, not cool and I was glad none of our players were on the pitch, nasty tackles going in on a crap surface. As for England, too many cowards out there, the front 3 didn't want the ball and were always in awful positions to receive it. Whenever they did get it they just looked to shift responsibility. You saw when Townsend came on that they were not that good and could be got at if you take them on. The invisible front 3 forced the midfield to play it backwards and play England into trouble. If you are being high pressed you do not fanny about with it at the back. Ali didn't have a great game but he at least tried, the problem was we were so slow getting the ball forwards they always had men back. It was the right game to bring Vardy on, IMO, but it needs a Drinkwater to be brave enough to try and find him early and risk losing possession, but you might as well lose it up field than pass yourself into trouble at the back. At least the opposition went for it and were not parking the bus in damage limitation mode. They gave our boys a lesson in intensity and desire hopefully they can learn from it because Scotland will have seen that and realised we can be got at.
MC Prussian Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 When it comes to football infrastructure, England has it all. It's a paradise. Thing is, you then also start throwing around too much money for players way too early, and few players come from a rough or poor background and lack the hunger and desire once they've settled for multi-million contracts. These days, it's all served on a silver platter. You won't find many players who had to really prove themselves and work their way up (although that's just my two cents on the issue). The media play their part in dissecting everyone and everything, both overhyping individuals as well as the national team on the whole, only to knock them down when they see fit. From a sportive perspective, Allardyce had the potential of turning things around. Shame, really. But the greedy **** just couldn't live with a couple of millions paid by the FA alone.
Benjani Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 The issue for me is the style of play we have adopted. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the FA. A few years ago they came up with the 'DNA system'. They haven't admitted to it but I'm pretty sure all managers have to abide by this and probably a formation too. It's why we have no plan B. Russia, Slovakia, Wales, Iceland, Slovakia, Slovenia. All these games we have played exactly the same. Lots of possession in meaningless areas and very easy to defend against. The DNA system is all wrong. We need to be able to lump the ball up field and change things around sometimes. We don't need a set system to play every game. It's all wrong. They need to scrap this DNA thing ASAP and play each game however the manager wants to.
davieG Posted 12 October 2016 Author Posted 12 October 2016 England interim manager Gareth Southgate said he had inherited "a mess", after a goalless draw in Slovenia in 2018 World Cup qualifying. Southgate succeeded Sam Allardyce last month, initially for four games, and led England to a home win over Malta before Tuesday's draw in Ljubljana. England, who top Group F, had keeper Joe Hart to thank for a point. "With the overall objective of qualifying, we have kept the team on track," said Southgate. "But we have taken over a mess really and had to steady the ship."
Jimothy Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 How can an international team be a mess? The squad isn't set in stone, he can call up who he likes. It's not like club management where he'd be stuck with a squad until the next transfer window. It's a mess because he's called up mostly the same squad as the last couple of idiots we had in charge.
Manwell Pablo Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 12 hours ago, ttfn said: Genuinely think that's one of the best saves I've ever seen. Said that myself. No idea how he stopped that from going over the line.
Countryfox Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 At 9 o clock last night my sky box advised me that as I was recording 2 channels it was going to change over from what I was watching .... I bowed to its superior knowledge. Smart box indeed.
VLC86 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 10 hours ago, Webbo said: Then tell what you'd do differently? We'll have some new coaching scheme for kids, it's been done times. Do you think kids seeing England lose and hear nothing but moaning about the team is going to encourage those kids to try? Ok so a few things that would see us improve.... More facilities. I lived in Italy for a few months a few years ago and every village (Yes Village) has a top notch community centre which more often than not included a fantastic 11 a side pitch that wasn't accessible for dogs to shit on. More coaches for more facilities. Simple, better coaches on better facilities means more people are getting shown the techinical side of the game. These first two need investment, if the FA can't be arsed to make the premier league donate more to grass roots it says it all. Youth contract. How many players are on insane money when it's not warrented just to ward off other teams incase they reach their potential. Chalobah at Chelsea has made 1 appearance for them, isn't he now 22 earning about £30k a week? What incentive does he have to knuckle down and try if his mentality isn't right? The FA. Employ someone who gives a shit and knows something about football but is brave enough to change this. The players. Pick people on form not on reputation.
kingcarr21 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Until we get away from trying to copy everyone with this 4-2-3-1 bullshit nothing will change. We are not creative enough in midfield (this is from our coaches 'coaching' creativity out of our players for years and now we are seeing the repercussions) Same old story. Get to the final 3rd and they stand there waiting for space. Better teams don't stop, they know where their team mates are and what they are going to do. We just do the same mundane rubbish of stopping and sideways passing. Our team is screaming out for 2 strikers to give us half a chance of scoring.
Beliall Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Our players are not able to carry the team, for each of their respective clubs, their job is to provide for the foreign stars of the team. They work hard at that, but when you put them all together they are sheep without a shepherd.
RonnieTodger Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 It's impossible to have any enthusiasm about this anymore. This is one of the weakest England squads for a while, but not anywhere near weak enough to be played off the park by Slovenia. After the Euros, I was convinced Hart should be permanently dropped for Forster, but he was outstanding last night. Cahill and Stones is a ridiculously shaky partnership. I can't even be arsed to go through the whole team and list weaknesses, everyone has done it. What's the point. If we go and beat Scotland next month, a bit of pride will be restored and people will forget about this because we've beaten Grant Hanley and Russell Martin.
David Guiza Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 3 minutes ago, kingcarr21 said: Until we get away from trying to copy everyone with this 4-2-3-1 bullshit nothing will change. We are not creative enough in midfield (this is from our coaches 'coaching' creativity out of our players for years and now we are seeing the repercussions) Same old story. Get to the final 3rd and they stand there waiting for space. Better teams don't stop, they know where their team mates are and what they are going to do. We just do the same mundane rubbish of stopping and sideways passing. Our team is screaming out for 2 strikers to give us half a chance of scoring. Completely agree, we shown last season that 4-4-2 could still be successful, or even 4-4-1-1. Daniel Sturridge, on current form at least not a loan striker and Walcott and Lingard are neither creative enough or strong enough to play the wide role in that formation. We call up players like Townsend and Antonio and then they barely get any game time, two players that would be ideal in a 4-4-2, however they play for unfashionable clubs. The fact that Townsend has played less games for England since playing more club football for Newcastle/Palace is laughable. It's like the FA have drawn a formation ballot and out came 4-2-3-1 and therefore that's not 'the England way' and we're going to play it regardless of manager, personnel etc. Yes it was a friendly, and yes it wasn't a full strength Germany side, but the best we have looked for years is the second half in Berlin with two up top, and yet since then we've only had two strikers on the pitch once we're struggling in matches, or if one of them is playing so wide that it's redundant. The most successful teams have been successful because they built a formation around the players they have, not the opposite.
foxes21 Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 Even if we switch to two strikers though, what service would they be getting. Fullbacks can't cross for shit, no creativity from midfield and the wingers don't create alot of opportunities either. Drinkwater & Albrighton should be starting, because both of them solve these problems. Albrighton created the most chances last season in our team & had the most assists of any English player in the league. Madness he wasn't at the Euros.
David Guiza Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 22 minutes ago, foxes21 said: Even if we switch to two strikers though, what service would they be getting. Fullbacks can't cross for shit, no creativity from midfield and the wingers don't create alot of opportunities either. Drinkwater & Albrighton should be starting, because both of them solve these problems. Albrighton created the most chances last season in our team & had the most assists of any English player in the league. Madness he wasn't at the Euros. Walker and Rose are clearly good players and suit the way that Spurs play, but not England. The way the pundits raved about Walker at the Euros pained me, yes he gets forward a lot but then what does he offer. An overlapping run and a cross into the shins of the first man and defensively he has been suspect at times also, for example the Iceland game. We seem desperate to play full backs in the way that Brazil had Cafu and Carlos, but they also had Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Kaka etc for creativity, we have Henderson, Rooney and Dier.
WigstonWanderer Posted 12 October 2016 Posted 12 October 2016 16 hours ago, ScouseFox said: swear to fu cking god if what giggs just said actually happens, and we need a goal so he brings rooney on over rashford or vardy im killing myself Don't do it! They're not worth it!
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.