Izzy Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 20 minutes ago, bovril said: True. Peter Taylor took six months. Would've been so much better if he'd quit fannying around and replaced Lennon with Junior Lewis straight away. Why not just say what you really mean instead of making some smart arse irrelevant comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Why not just say what you really mean instead of making some smart arse irrelevant comparison? It was a tongue in cheek reference to a former Leicester manager considering this is a Leicester City forum. Now calm your tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 2 minutes ago, bovril said: It was a tongue in cheek reference to a former Leicester manager considering this is a Leicester City forum. Now calm your tits. I read it like you were having a pop at my opinion about Trump being decisive. Usually when someone posts something tongue it cheek in response there's one of those emoji thingys with it. Either way, my tits are calm thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 I've never really understood the appeal of someone making big decisions quickly. Sure, it gives instant gratification and if you think you're right you're going to be inclined that way, but isn't history littered with examples of leaders acting in haste and repenting at leisure? Even Churchill, when tough decisions really needed to be made, acted with a certain consensus, even if the decisions seemed to be made fast. That is not the case here. As SL said above, uncompromising men make themselves easy to admire but then their actions are often less so. Speaking of which... http://fortune.com/2017/01/30/donald-trump-paris-agreement-climate-change-withdraw/ Yeah, we really should admire the speed and decisiveness at which Trump proceeds to ignore a global threat, give the oil and gas companies free rein and make a large portion of the continental US twinned with Beijing (possibly). Even if you somehow think that climate change isn't an issue , air and sea pollution certainly is. Do you really think this administration cares about that either? As was also said above, none of this was a shock - he and his administration made their objectives abundantly clear. Guess that's the mark of a truly gifted demagogue - you tell people every dire detail of what you intend for them...and they love you for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I read it like you were having a pop at my opinion about Trump being decisive. Usually when someone posts something tongue it cheek in response there's one of those emoji thingys with it. Either way, my tits are calm thanks I wasn't having a pop. I don't think decisiveness is necessarily a positive quality. I doubt people give a shit what I think about the political situation in the US so I'll stick to LCFC references and leave the extended discourse to those who are more eloquent than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 1 minute ago, bovril said: I wasn't having a pop. I don't think decisiveness is necessarily a positive quality. I doubt people give a shit what I think about the political situation in the US so I'll stick to LCFC references and leave the extended discourse to those who are more eloquent than me. Fair enough I actually think I'll just lurk and learn on this thread from now on as I'm not really qualified to give an informed opinion tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 On 1/29/2017 at 20:16, Facecloth said: I shouldn't have to stoop to your level to help you understand things. A bit of stooping is good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 13:54, leicsmac said: I've never really understood the appeal of someone making big decisions quickly. Sure, it gives instant gratification and if you think you're right you're going to be inclined that way, but isn't history littered with examples of leaders acting in haste and repenting at leisure? Even Churchill, when tough decisions really needed to be made, acted with a certain consensus, even if the decisions seemed to be made fast. That is not the case here. As SL said above, uncompromising men make themselves easy to admire but then their actions are often less so. Speaking of which... http://fortune.com/2017/01/30/donald-trump-paris-agreement-climate-change-withdraw/ Yeah, we really should admire the speed and decisiveness at which Trump proceeds to ignore a global threat, give the oil and gas companies free rein and make a large portion of the continental US twinned with Beijing (possibly). Even if you somehow think that climate change isn't an issue , air and sea pollution certainly is. Do you really think this administration cares about that either? As was also said above, none of this was a shock - he and his administration made their objectives abundantly clear. Guess that's the mark of a truly gifted demagogue - you tell people every dire detail of what you intend for them...and they love you for it. Judging by the pre-conceived attitudes of those who oppose him, it depends on what he wants to achieve and the time he believes he has to do it. Erdogan in Turkey acted quickly and ruthlessly enough after the attempted coup - so fast it was as if he knew if was going to happen. The guy concerns me and a lot of others but that doesn't stop me admiring his decisiveness - and ruthlessness. Or accepting that he was right to clamp down quickly. . Trump may think that speed is equally important. even more so if he reads this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38826211 Perhaps he could meet opponents halfway. And just ban blokes! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 6 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I see the new petition that Trump SHOULD be allowed to make a state visit to the UK is nearly at 100,000 What a load of old pony. Really... As has already been highlighted via a list, if The Queen only had State visits with saints she'd have had a lot of time on her hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 Trump signs his latest executive order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 The Home Secretary's comment about Trump's action potentially benefitting IS is fair enough (I thought it myself) but this continual quoting of the petition numbers is unconvincing. There's a lot of signatures still needed for a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 Devos confirmed (practically) as Education Secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 Devos confirmed (practically) as Education Secretary. Maybe the Dems are saving some political capital to block the supreme court judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 27 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Devos confirmed (practically) as Education Secretary. Future President, progressive mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 4 hours ago, leicsmac said: I've never really understood the appeal of someone making big decisions quickly. Sure, it gives instant gratification and if you think you're right you're going to be inclined that way, but isn't history littered with examples of leaders acting in haste and repenting at leisure? Even Churchill, when tough decisions really needed to be made, acted with a certain consensus, even if the decisions seemed to be made fast. That is not the case here. As SL said above, uncompromising men make themselves easy to admire but then their actions are often less so. Speaking of which... http://fortune.com/2017/01/30/donald-trump-paris-agreement-climate-change-withdraw/ Yeah, we really should admire the speed and decisiveness at which Trump proceeds to ignore a global threat, give the oil and gas companies free rein and make a large portion of the continental US twinned with Beijing (possibly). Even if you somehow think that climate change isn't an issue , air and sea pollution certainly is. Do you really think this administration cares about that either? As was also said above, none of this was a shock - he and his administration made their objectives abundantly clear. Guess that's the mark of a truly gifted demagogue - you tell people every dire detail of what you intend for them...and they love you for it. Doesn't matter whether you agree with the issue or not if the moot point is how long a decision should take to make. Given that Trump is acting on what he's said he was going to act on for the past eighteen months or so I'd say he's had plenty of time to evaluate his decision, be it right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 14 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said: Maybe the Dems are saving some political capital to block the supreme court judge. Possibly. I guess we'll find out on that one shortly. 10 minutes ago, MattP said: Future President, progressive mate. If she knows as much about leading a country as she does about education then we'd be in for a real treat if/when that happens! 1 minute ago, Benguin said: Doesn't matter whether you agree with the issue or not if the moot point is how long a decision should take to make. Given that Trump is acting on what he's said he was going to act on for the past eighteen months or so I'd say he's had plenty of time to evaluate his decision, be it right or wrong. That's fair. If anything though, that makes it worse - the rapid consolidation and use of power (attempting to sidestep the legislative and judicial wings, appointing Bannon to the national security council and sidelining those with more experience) here is preplanned rather than impulsive...guess the issue is more not that the decisions are being made quickly, but the lack of consultation on those decisions except be a select few, as well as the total antipathy towards any kind of challenge. I'm still not buying the "can't-stop-what-he-does" angle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 3 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Possibly. I guess we'll find out on that one shortly. If she knows as much about leading a country as she does about education then we'd be in for a real treat if/when that happens! That's fair. If anything though, that makes it worse - the rapid consolidation and use of power (attempting to sidestep the legislative and judicial wings, appointing Bannon to the national security council and sidelining those with more experience) here is preplanned rather than impulsive...guess the issue is more not that the decisions are being made quickly, but the lack of consultation on those decisions except be a select few, as well as the total antipathy towards any kind of challenge. I'm still not buying the "can't-stop-what-he-does" angle though. I'd agree, I just don't think as many people want to stop what he does as is reported. I think more people see climate change as a serious issue than those who don't but you can't ever have a President who represents all of your values and people who are perhaps anti Trump in that regard are supportive of him on issues that are more important to them. The main narrative I'm seeing at the minute is all Trump supporters are Nazi's and all those against him are communists, sure some will be but most are somewhere in the middle. The point is if you're more inclined to the right on the political compass with most issues but support more research into climate change and more steps to combat it, you'd probably still vote Trump and have to accept he's going to do some things you disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 Trump's secret African brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 13 minutes ago, Benguin said: I'd agree, I just don't think as many people want to stop what he does as is reported. I think more people see climate change as a serious issue than those who don't but you can't ever have a President who represents all of your values and people who are perhaps anti Trump in that regard are supportive of him on issues that are more important to them. The main narrative I'm seeing at the minute is all Trump supporters are Nazi's and all those against him are communists, sure some will be but most are somewhere in the middle. The point is if you're more inclined to the right on the political compass with most issues but support more research into climate change and more steps to combat it, you'd probably still vote Trump and have to accept he's going to do some things you disagree with. Agree about the polarisation. IMO what we do to the environment (climate change, pollution etc) is a three-line whip issue - critically important. I can understand how other people might give it lower priority, but every other political issue requires a stable environment in which they can be debated and applied...so I'm struggling to think of a more important issue, unless you really don't believe either that things are changing or humans are contributing to that change, in which case... Ergo, even if you agree with everything else Trump is doing, given the importance of the issue if you really think what he's doing regarding the environmental legislative path he's looking to take is wrong then it's something you should be asking questions and making something of a noise about. Mind you, scientific issues of this type have always been rather abstract to a lot of folks due to poor communication...but also there are those in power (not necessarily Trump) who simply don't give a shit and are happy to let the ball roll, because it gives them money and power in the short term and they're pretty sure they'll be dead (and so not need to worry about it) by the time things come to a head and it's too late to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 2 hours ago, leicsmac said: Agree about the polarisation. IMO what we do to the environment (climate change, pollution etc) is a three-line whip issue - critically important. I can understand how other people might give it lower priority, but every other political issue requires a stable environment in which they can be debated and applied...so I'm struggling to think of a more important issue, unless you really don't believe either that things are changing or humans are contributing to that change, in which case... Ergo, even if you agree with everything else Trump is doing, given the importance of the issue if you really think what he's doing regarding the environmental legislative path he's looking to take is wrong then it's something you should be asking questions and making something of a noise about. Mind you, scientific issues of this type have always been rather abstract to a lot of folks due to poor communication...but also there are those in power (not necessarily Trump) who simply don't give a shit and are happy to let the ball roll, because it gives them money and power in the short term and they're pretty sure they'll be dead (and so not need to worry about it) by the time things come to a head and it's too late to do anything. The USA built itself into a global player by becoming the worlds #1 industrial superpower. It was this device that it used to drain the european nations of much of their wealth during two world wars under the guise of neutrality. It then used this obscene wealth to build itself into the worlds only military superpower. If one of the definitions of political conservatism is the retaining of traditional institutions, particularly as they relate to a country's own historical and cultural narrative, then we should understand that no republican government is ever going to place greater importance on the environment compared to its industry. This is why the Americans will always be polarised politically, why the 'culture wars' will never end and why in the next 4 years nobody is going to say 'I think this debate has been concluded please close this thread'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 31 January 2017 Share Posted 31 January 2017 8 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Fair enough I actually think I'll just lurk and learn on this thread from now on as I'm not really qualified to give an informed opinion tbh Not being qualified to give an informed opinion makes you ideally qualified to comment on this thread mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 February 2017 Share Posted 1 February 2017 1 hour ago, GazzinderFox said: The USA built itself into a global player by becoming the worlds #1 industrial superpower. It was this device that it used to drain the european nations of much of their wealth during two world wars under the guise of neutrality. It then used this obscene wealth to build itself into the worlds only military superpower. If one of the definitions of political conservatism is the retaining of traditional institutions, particularly as they relate to a country's own historical and cultural narrative, then we should understand that no republican government is ever going to place greater importance on the environment compared to its industry. This is why the Americans will always be polarised politically, why the 'culture wars' will never end and why in the next 4 years nobody is going to say 'I think this debate has been concluded please close this thread'. I agree wholeheartedly. Which is why I place the responsibility for the monumental gamble with the future of humanity squarely at their door. Perhaps some day they'll (and now I refer to those who think similarly across the world, not just in the US) come face to face with something that no pious belief in a deity and no amount of money in the world can save them from. It'll just be a pity that the rest of the human race will likely be along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 1 February 2017 Share Posted 1 February 2017 12 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I agree wholeheartedly. Which is why I place the responsibility for the monumental gamble with the future of humanity squarely at their door. Perhaps some day they'll (and now I refer to those who think similarly across the world, not just in the US) come face to face with something that no pious belief in a deity and no amount of money in the world can save them from. It'll just be a pity that the rest of the human race will likely be along for the ride. Alas, they are but standing on the shoulders of giants my friend. The fault lies not with Trump & the republicans or Obama and his democrats. But with the cold dead heart that lies within every corrupted human being. If we want an answer for why the world is tearing itself apart all we need do is look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 1 February 2017 Share Posted 1 February 2017 5 minutes ago, GazzinderFox said: Alas, they are but standing on the shoulders of giants my friend. The fault lies not with Trump & the republicans or Obama and his democrats. But with the cold dead heart that lies within every corrupted human being. If we want an answer for why the world is tearing itself apart all we need do is look in the mirror. The evolutionary trap that we can't get out of that has been mentioned before, aka "human nature"? You might well be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzinderFox Posted 1 February 2017 Share Posted 1 February 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: The evolutionary trap that we can't get out of that has been mentioned before, aka "human nature"? You might well be right. Oh you mean survival of the fittest? A pretty drab excuse for doing what we please and treating the rest of the world like crap don't you think? No I think there's more to the human condition than that. Think about it this way, if America woke up today 100% Jimmy Carter, how long do you think it would take to produce a Donald Trump? I'm thinking less than a week. For every Al Gore, there's a Teddy Roosevelt headhunting polar bears from his private icebreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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