Next manager ( who do you want ).

[AmarteyAndChill]

Just now, foxes21 said:

Do our players fit his style of play though? He likes to play a 4-2-3-1 & play with possession. He's a bad choice imo.

It should be Shakespeare or Schmidt.

Don't forget the inverted wingers and ball playing centre backs 

[filbertway]

We're not stuck to having just this current squad by the way. Just signing around 4 key players that can actually play football in certain positions. 2x CB, another CM then probably CAM and RB. Sorted.

 

I reckon we should go in for Wagner regardless of how the play off final goes.

[foxes21]

15 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Don't forget the inverted wingers and ball playing centre backs 

Why do you keep suggesting Wagner then if his style of play doesn't suit our current squad?

[AmarteyAndChill]

4 minutes ago, foxes21 said:

Why do you keep suggesting Wagner then if his style of play doesn't suit our current squad?

Because he will have a transfer window to bring in playwrs he wants 

[foxes21]

6 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Because he will have a transfer window to bring in playwrs he wants 

One transfer window to change our entire style of play to suit his tactics? Yeah we'll be relegated.

 

[Adster]

Just now, foxes21 said:

One transfer window to change our entire style of play to suit his tactics? Yeah we'll be relegated.

 

I thought this. I swear some people think actual football is like FM/FIFA where you can just buy a bunch of new players and instantly change the way you play, or play well.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Cheers for the diplomatic reaction to a difference in opinion. 

 

I didn't say tactics or changing personnel. I said 'style'.

 

Our style of play  (high tempo, in your face) had originated during the great escape.

 

There was a clear switch in formation for starters when Ranieri arrived which I mentioned in my other post. Tweaked it too with Vardy etc. Kept some good bits like playing a 10 and half aka Okazaki. That was his genius. Acknowledging the good bits which is a incredible trait to have as most managers immediately try to put their stamp on things. 

 

I've said elsewhere god knows why he so quickly stepped away from it. We do need to make the change but it needs to be gradual with players capable of doing it. 

Yes sorry about that CF, it was a bit over the top aggressive in hindsight.

 

i do nevertheless stick by what I said other than the four letter word. 

[AmarteyAndChill]

7 minutes ago, foxes21 said:

One transfer window to change our entire style of play to suit his tactics? Yeah we'll be relegated.

 

None of the managers mentioned play our style of play. All we do is lump it long or get it wide and cross it. 

[Adster]

That being said, I do think our style of play needs to change slightly if we're going to be challenging in the top half of the table.

 

I'm all for counter attacking - fast paced football. But I'm tired of watching us surrender possession from aimless hoofs from Simpson, Huth et al.

 

We need more players who are comfortable in possession of the ball, as currently we have very few.

[AmarteyAndChill]

Just now, Adster said:

That being said, I do think our style of play needs to change slightly if we're going to be challenging in the top half of the table.

 

I'm all for counter attacking - fast paced football. But I'm tired of watching us surrender possession from aimless hoofs from Simpson, Huth et al.

 

We need more players who are comfortable in possession of the ball, as currently we have very few.

We have 2, Fuchs and Mahrez 

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, Adster said:

That being said, I do think our style of play needs to change slightly if we're going to be challenging in the top half of the table.

 

I'm all for counter attacking - fast paced football. But I'm tired of watching us surrender possession from aimless hoofs from Simpson, Huth et al.

 

We need more players who are comfortable in possession of the ball, as currently we have very few.

I agree completely. My worry is if you change it too quick with the wrong type of player. It needs to be a gradual change. 

[CosbehFox]

36 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

None of the managers mentioned play our style of play. All we do is lump it long or get it wide and cross it. 

Just a week ago Guardiola was citing how difficult we can be to play against. We had the likes of Simeone and Godin praising it too. 

[AmarteyAndChill]

Just now, Cardiff_Fox said:

Just a week ago Guardiola was citing how difficult we can be to play against. We had the likes of Simeone and Godin praising it too. 

I know, but then people like Sigursson wouldn't suit our style of play then.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think the style possibly did develop a little in the year before but I think this was despite Pearson and possibly more to do with Cambiasso's influence as Vardy alludes to in his book. Following a successful Championship season of passing attacking football, Pearson started to try and play a dour defensive game without the players that could play that style. A bit like Sousa in reverse,  he tried to play champagne and oyster passing football with beer and chips players. Cambiasso was an experienced winner who assisted greatly in the great escape. 

The mark of a good manager for me is the one that adopts the style of play best suited to the players at his disposal. He has to be capable of instructing and playing more than one style if possible. Arguably Guadiola is going to have to adapt a bit to that extent.

I think Ranieri had the knowledge but did he have the players capable of changing or willing to change, who knows.

The next manager needs to be a strong knowledgeable experienced individual imo. I don't see being grateful to Shakespeare as a reason to risk or experiment with our future unless there are no better candidates.

I'm surprised you make that conclusion on Cambiasso as the way I read Vardy's autobiography is that most of the squad were happy to see Cambiasso leave as they felt he was being accommodated by us trying to shoehorn him into different formations. 

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

I know, but then people like Sigursson wouldn't suit our style of play then.

Yet Sigurdsson shone in an Iceland team very similar to us last Summer. For this summer you want players with work ethic and the technical ability to keep possession. He completely ticks that box. 

 

You'd be looking at three or four of this type of player this summer. Then one in January. Then another three or four next summer. You gradually integrate it and change it. You don't just impose a style on a bunch of players or completely fcuk with team morale by introducing eight new signings. 

[AmarteyAndChill]

Just now, Cardiff_Fox said:

Yet Sigurdsson shone in an Iceland team very similar to us last Summer. 

Iceland were a defensive side with tall physical players. We are quick counter attacking side and I don't think he's mobile enough to play th Okazaki role. Especially if Mahrez stays. 

[filbertway]

10 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Iceland were a defensive side with tall physical players. We are quick counter attacking side and I don't think he's mobile enough to play th Okazaki role. Especially if Mahrez stays. 

Hopefully we see the back of the Okazaki role and actually have somebody up there that is capable of receiving the ball and doing something with it on a regular basis.

 

I feel like Okazaki's role while important in some games, is completely over rated a lot of the time. Sometimes I'll watch him contribute absolutely nothing for an entire half. I'd love to see us make a positive change and use that position to cause opposition problems, rather than use it to try and spoil opposition's play.

[AmarteyAndChill]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Hopefully we see the back of the Okazaki role and actually have somebody up there that is capable of receiving the ball and doing something with it on a regular basis.

 

I feel like Okazaki's role while important in some games, is completely over rated a lot of the time. Sometimes I'll watch him contribute absolutely nothing for an entire half. I'd love to see us make a positive change and use that position to cause opposition problems, rather than use it to try and spoil opposition's play.

We have so little possession that we are more effective having a 'runner' than a quality player. Our movement in the final third compared to Bournemouth was pathetic. We can't keep the ball effectively because our right back, and 2 centre backs are not comfortable with the ball. It's not just Okazaki that's the problem. 

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

We have so little possession that we are more effective having a 'runner' than a quality player. Our movement in the final third compared to Bournemouth was pathetic. We can't keep the ball effectively because our right back, and 2 centre backs are not comfortable with the ball. It's not just Okazaki that's the problem. 

Oh yeah definitely, can't disagree with you there. I think at least one, preferably two CB and another CM who are comfortable on the ball are vital this summer. It'd be great to have a spine of footballers.

[AmarteyAndChill]

Just now, filbertway said:

Oh yeah definitely, can't disagree with you there. I think at least one, preferably two CB and another CM who are comfortable on the ball are vital this summer. It'd be great to have a spine of footballers.

Exactly, hopefully we sign 2 CBs, a CM and a creative midfielder. 

[filbertway]

Just now, AmarteyAndChill said:

Exactly, hopefully we sign 2 CBs, a CM and a creative midfielder. 

That's the dream. If we did get those that'd be a massive step towards evolving into a team that can pen teams in. We don't need to play slow tip tap football just because we have people that can play football. 

[Kitchandro]

 

8 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Yet Sigurdsson shone in an Iceland team very similar to us last Summer. For this summer you want players with work ethic and the technical ability to keep possession. He completely ticks that box. 

 

You'd be looking at three or four of this type of player this summer. Then one in January. Then another three or four next summer. You gradually integrate it and change it. You don't just impose a style on a bunch of players or completely fcuk with team morale by introducing eight new signings. 

Just out of interest, why would we want to change the style?

 

The way I see it - we could spend 2 years buying players to suit a new way of playing, with no guarantee that the manager will last that long, for us only to be as good as sides like Southampton.

 

I'm not sure why some people have grasped yet that our biggest strength is the style we play (when we implement it correctly). Pretty much the only time it doesn't work is when we don't press high enough.

 

If we move away from it, as both Ranieri & Shakespeare have tried to do at times this season with little success, we will essentially trying to play like other teams. And if we play like other teams, we'll need better players than them to be a better team than them. Southampton are a tidy footballing team with big, strong individuals who can pass the ball. But they will always be a midtable outfit because they are trying to beat the top teams at their own game.

 

What you and others are talking about when you mention hoofing is us doing our way, the wrong way. For example, yesterday we used Slimani. Now he doesn't suit our style at all, he's not quick or mobile enough, he doesn't come deep often enough and his first touch is extremely poor, so he slows the game down and doesn't provide a link between the midfield and Vardy. In addition, we just try to boot it up to him instead of being able to play it 'in the channels'. So yesterday we dominated possession without stretching Bournemouth often enough, meaning we needed perfect crosses to create chances. That is difficult.

 

Chilwell is another one who's not quite ready. I've already said that defensively he needs a lot of work, but on the ball, whilst he's tidy and quick (and would probably fit other teams fine) he's ponderous - he doesn't move the ball quick enough. Other players have been guilty of this and also that we've not pressed high enough. So we end up with the back 4 having the ball with 11 players in front of them and we're having to build from the back.

 

It's not our style that's not good enough, last season proved it was genius because you could have an advantage over other teams by being different to them and not needing the best players to be the best team. It's just that you need to be strict with it, if you aren't pressing high and moving the ball quickly it won't work.

 

It's my opinion that, because of this reason, we should try to stick (or go back to) that style for as long as possible. Basically, until Vardy leaves or becomes past it, and we can't replace him with a similar player. It is an ambitious way of playing, contrary to what the media like to tell you. Unless you've got the best technical players (something we're never going to have) it's got more potential and, when done properly, is far more entertaining to watch, than the usual modern style of play we see these days, based on slow build up and short passes.

 

This means we should be trying to hire a manager who has the good sense to implement that style with this group of players. Good managers are flexible anyway, I've never understood someone going into a club and trying to play one style no matter the variations in the type of squad or league they're going into. I remember when Sousa tried to make us into a passing team with some very limited technical players when we'd already formed a progressing team that knew what it was doing in a competitive league. It was a disaster.

 

I'm not sure attempting to change is really the right way forward at this time.

 

[Buce]

5 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Still think Shakey deserves it, though understandably opinion seems to have moved away from him over the last few matches, particularly the last 2.

 

However he has done a remarkable job:

 

- Saved the club from almost certain relegation.

- Coped with fixture congestion worse than any since promotion.

- Coped with the worst injury crisis since promotion.

- Delivered a respectable finish in the Champions League.

 

Would Conte himself have done any better with the players at hand? I honestly don't think so. Yes he has made a few mistakes, most notably the Gray for Benny sub vs Spurs, but he's still learning his trade. His worst crime appears to be that he isn't a big name, but I for one am suspicious of big egos for our club.

 

 

Edit:

 

Just to add that if the owners do decide to go for a big name, I really hope that they are fully prepared to back him with the very deep pockets required, because whoever comes in would almost certainly want to change to a more possession-oriented style that will require massive investment to bring in suitable players. If not I fear that we would face relegation just as we did when Ranieri tried his experiments.

 

Do we want someone still learning his trade? Or do we want someone who comes with a pedigree?

 

I suggest a club with ambitions to play in Europe again wants the latter.

[WigstonWanderer]

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Do we want someone still learning his trade? Or do we want someone who comes with a pedigree?

 

I suggest a club with ambitions to play in Europe again wants the latter.

Even Pep is having to learn.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I'm surprised you make that conclusion on Cambiasso as the way I read Vardy's autobiography is that most of the squad were happy to see Cambiasso leave as they felt he was being accommodated by us trying to shoehorn him into different formations. 

I only glanced through it but I got the impression in layman's terms that indeed, they didn't much like him when he first came, particularly as he was critical yet insightful through experience of why they were losing. When a few of his ideas were thought through and implimented however results started to change. I seem to remember on here that someone at the time related supposed leaked information regarding similar. How accurate or reliable that was I can't say, a bit like what the truth may have been regarding Ranieri's departure I suppose,  people have to be careful what they say.

From my point of view at the time, my knowledge about it was nothing and merely put it down to the players having had enough of just losing out and thinking bollocks to this, we might as well at least have a go and go down fighting! I sometimes wonder whether it was tactics or the saying bollocks to tactics that sorted it! Either way it was roller coaster like the next two years. We've certainly had our season tickets money's worth lol!