Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Vardinio'sCat]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The economy which is employing more people than ever before, and performing way better than all economic forecast after the Brexit vote?

 

The last 6 months haven't looked that rosy though, and the direction of travel is pretty negative. We were in the so-called 'goldilocks' zone for 6 months post-ref, we aren't any more.

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

Ha, you've picked about the only good stat there is. Almost all of the others - rising inflation, falling wages, slowing growth etc are detrimental to tory austerity extremism. 

All whilst having a growing economy and being in the EU. Why should we be worried about leaving again?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

All whilst having a growing economy and being in the EU. Why should we be worried about leaving again?

Well the other g7 members of the eu have better growth than we do....

[DJ Barry Hammond]

42 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The economy which is employing more people than ever before, and performing way better than all economic forecast after the Brexit vote?

 

If the economy was performing that well and more importantly people were feeling the effects of that performance, the Conservatives would have talked about it more in the run up to the election and coasted to a majority. 

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Well the other g7 members of the eu have better growth than we do....

For one quarter 

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

Think you be extrapolating based on your own opinions there Matty.

There will be some who think like that. There'll also be others who will vote Tory no matter how bad their leader, how badly the economy is failing ordinary people and no matter how crap their manifesto......

 

38 minutes ago, toddybad said:

The majority of normal people think they're middle class these days. Even a cursury look at the stats shows that the dividing line is age not class these days. 

 

Ha, you've picked about the only good stat there is. Almost all of the others - rising inflation, falling wages, slowing growth etc are detrimental to tory austerity extremism. 

 

11 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Well the other g7 members of the eu have better growth than we do....

I'm amazed you still bother to put up with living in this country. If it's as shit here as you continually make it out to be, why not just up sticks and leave?

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

 

I'm amazed you still bother to put up with living in this country. If it's as shit here as you continually make it out to be, why not just up sticks and leave?

There are some lovely countries in EU, he could take his pick before FOM is abolished.

[Buce]

50 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

 

I'm amazed you still bother to put up with living in this country. If it's as shit here as you continually make it out to be, why not just up sticks and leave?

 

There are a thousand reasons that might prevent that - you know nothing about his circumstances.

 

Or maybe he'd just rather stay and try and improve things?

 

 

[leicsmac]

52 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

 

I'm amazed you still bother to put up with living in this country. If it's as shit here as you continually make it out to be, why not just up sticks and leave?

Though there would be no blame attached if he did...perhaps, as Buce says, he wants to stay and try to either make things better from where he is, wait for an improvement to happen - or both?

 

Loving a country comes with the right of being able to perpetually criticise, too.

[Buce]

 

Peston on Sunday taking the piss out of Leadsom..

 

Shout out to @andrealeadsom: we've been listening to you! Look what we've done to Croissant Corner

 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

24 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Peston on Sunday taking the piss out of Leadsom..

 

Shout out to @andrealeadsom: we've been listening to you! Look what we've done to Croissant Corner

 

Hahaha!!

[l444ry]

Not sure which is the more excruciating, reading Tory apologists clutching at straws or Brexiteers with their hands over their eyes and fingers in their ears facing the opposite way from facts. Amusing nevertheless.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

 

I'm amazed you still bother to put up with living in this country. If it's as shit here as you continually make it out to be, why not just up sticks and leave?

Cos soon we'll have a left wing government and we'll see policies for the many and not the few ?

[Izzy]

14 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Cos soon we'll have a left wing government and we'll see policies for the many and not the few ?

I do admire your optimism in thinking this might actually happen. I'll give you that. 

Edited 25 June 2017 by Izzy Muzzett

[Sharpe's Fox]

corbyn's on fire

tory scum are terrified

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

Cos soon we'll have a left wing government and we'll see policies for the many and not the few ?

 

The worst thing is that despite the history of this sort of policy and the consequences of it is that you still seen to think it's going to be something great. 

[Voll Blau]

Typical BBC bias at it again! Clearly...

 

 

[Rincewind]

Could one of Nigels friends be a stagehand?

 

Edited 25 June 2017 by Rincewind

[Vardinio'sCat]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

 

The worst thing is that despite the history of this sort of policy and the consequences of it is that you still seen to think it's going to be something great. 

 

The history of 'this sort of policy' has been more successful than you seem to recognise. During the long post-war boom. for example, even the Tories subscribed to 'this sort of policy', and things went pretty well, until the oil price shock of the early 70's.

 

Also, the last 3 domestically driven crashes were all on the Tories watch. Black Wednesday, the Lawson boom and Geoffrey Howe's ruinous 1981 budget.

 

Edited 25 June 2017 by Vardinio'sCat
added long

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

 Just thought I'd post from an economics blog I sometimes read. I know experts are desperately unfashionable, especially economists, but we all (eventually) go to the Doctor when we are ill. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the Prof ain't so keen on the whole brexit thing. 

 

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/brexiteers-versus-economists-one-year-on.html

 

'One year ago we found out that the British people had decided (narrowly) that they had had enough of experts, and one group of experts in particular: economists. Economists had warned that Brexit would harm the economy, and the Brexiteers laughed it off, claiming Brexit could give the UK lower immigration without any economic pain. Economists responded that reducing immigration would make access to public services worse not better, but everyone told us we were simply out of touch with the people.

 

When a few months after the referendum Brexiteers started claiming that the economists had been proved to be completely wrong, I decided to score this match between Brexiteers and Economists. Goals would come from actual events, not from unconditional forecasts. The first goal of this match had been scored by the Economists within seconds of the match starting: the collapse in sterling would make nearly all British citizens poorer. The second arrived shortly afterwards, as the Bank decided to cut rates and restart QE to offset the negative impact of Brexit.'

 

[Webbo]

7 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

The history of 'this sort of policy' has been more successful than you seem to recognise. During the long post-war boom. for example, even the Tories subscribed to 'this sort of policy', and things went pretty well, until the oil price shock of the early 70's.

 

Also, the last 3 domestically driven crashes were all on the Tories watch. Black Wednesday, the Lawson boom and Geoffrey Howe's ruinous 1981 budget.

 

You seem to have forgotten 2008?

[l444ry]

I notice that The Times is continuing its policy of fake news by claiming criminals can now be thrown out as a consequence of Brexit. Any clued in person knows they always could be thrown out. Same old lies as the "control our borders" tosh. The Government has always had the power to asked EU immigrants to leave if they hadn't got a job within three months. They can't be very confident of the way the Brexit talks are going if they need to resort to this level of deceit. 

[Alf Bentley]

9 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

The history of 'this sort of policy' has been more successful than you seem to recognise. During the long post-war boom. for example, even the Tories subscribed to 'this sort of policy', and things went pretty well, until the oil price shock of the early 70's.

 

Also, the last 3 domestically driven crashes were all on the Tories watch. Black Wednesday, the Lawson boom and Geoffrey Howe's ruinous 1981 budget.

 

 

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

You seem to have forgotten 2008?

 

Nope. 2008 was internationally-driven (started in USA & largely driven by the global system). He's referred to "the last 3 domestically-driven crashes".

 

Of course, the Labour government can be criticised for various aspects of its economic policy - including running a small deficit during a boom and not regulating banks more, which certainly didn't help in 2008.

But the 2008 crash was not domestically driven.

 

 

Edit in an effort to be even-handed:

- Although Howe's 1981 budget undoubtedly made a bad economic situation a lot worse in the short-term (mass unemployment etc.), Thatcherites will argue that this was part of the necessary pain of getting the public finances under control and restructuring the economy/society. Even Leftists who agree that some restructuring was necessary will dispute the need for such a harsh budget - and the "positivity" of the restructuring long-term.

- It is probably unfair to count the Lawson Boom and Black Wednesday as 2 crashes. I think most would see them as 2 major economic policy errors (Lawson allowing the economy to overheat in a boom-bust cycle & Major joining the ERM at too high a rate) but a single crash. The Lawson boom led to the 1991-92 recession, which combined with Major's ERM cock-up to cause the Black Wednesday crash out of the ERM & depreciation of the pound....which in due course helped to drive the economic recovery of the mid-90s

Edited 26 June 2017 by Alf Bentley

[Webbo]

Of course, how foolish of me. It's never Labour's fault is it?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Something quite Ironic about far left cretins appearing (McDonnell, Corbyn and Momentum) at an elitist music event that charges over £200 a ticket, ran by a rich farmer who for some reason is seen as a man of the people by the left. For the many not the few........or is it all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others!!

 

Hope there was a Starbucks and iPhone charging station, so they can keep up their Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat status up to date about how much they hate the avoiding companies and the rich.

 

Also its disgraceful how these ***** seem incapable of putting rubbish in a ****ing bin, again for people who claim to support greenpeace there is some irony in a scene such as this:

 

Edited 26 June 2017 by Foxin_mad