Alf Bentley Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 Just done my democratic duty for the party and voted in the Labour NEC elections. Avoided both Lansmann's Momentum slate and Eddie Izzard in favour of 3 candidates who sounded more independent - a hyperactive Sikh Midlander, a feisty-sounding Scotswoman and an oddbod hoping to get Labour to support EEA membership. I assume none of them stand any chance and that the Momentum slate will all get elected, unless Izzard's celebrity status gets him in.... Momentum now on the verge of controlling the NEC, apparently, so will be interesting to see what they do with that power, if it happens. I wouldn't expect mass reselection, just a tightening grip on policy. Having started off with no apparent interest in forming a govt, Corbyn & co rather fancy taking power now, I think, so might want to avoid any civil war. Re. Williamson, Isabel Hardman thinks his resignation shows that Labour under Corbyn are now serious about wanting power: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/chris-williamsons-resignation-shows-labours-determination-to-win/ Interesting political times ahead on all sides.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 22 minutes ago, Bryn said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42572116 The time is up for this conversation to be had. Forget percentages, rates of rise above or below inflation and all the rest of the political and economic bullshit. People are dying en masse. Whether it's increased taxation, privatisation, whatever, I no longer care. Our country needs new hospitals, GPs and GP surgeries, walk in centres, pharmacists and pharmacies, doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, healthcare assistants, radiographers, porters, ambulances, paramedics, phlebotomists and all the rest of it today. It needed it months, years ago. 4 What our country needs is a new government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 1 hour ago, Buce said: What our country needs is a new government. I don't give a **** who sits in that stupid hall and squawks at the other side anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 1 hour ago, Buce said: What our country needs is a new government. One that delivers social justice and gives real economic and political power to the working class, friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Chris Williamson now a backbencher again The man, the myth, the legend, no idea how he'll be replaced as well, who is the MP for Pontypandy? 2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Just done my democratic duty for the party and voted in the Labour NEC elections. Avoided both Lansmann's Momentum slate and Eddie Izzard in favour of 3 candidates who sounded more independent - a hyperactive Sikh Midlander, a feisty-sounding Scotswoman and an oddbod hoping to get Labour to support EEA membership. I assume none of them stand any chance and that the Momentum slate will all get elected, unless Izzard's celebrity status gets him in.... Momentum now on the verge of controlling the NEC, apparently, so will be interesting to see what they do with that power, if it happens. I wouldn't expect mass reselection, just a tightening grip on policy. Having started off with no apparent interest in forming a govt, Corbyn & co rather fancy taking power now, I think, so might want to avoid any civil war. Re. Williamson, Isabel Hardman thinks his resignation shows that Labour under Corbyn are now serious about wanting power: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/chris-williamsons-resignation-shows-labours-determination-to-win/ Interesting political times ahead on all sides.... Fair play, don't expect it to make any difference, expect the momentum backed nutters....sorry candidates to cruise to victory. If it is close mind, bear in mind my prediction that Corbyn could face another leadership contest - I still think this is the bet of the year, one last pish from the moderates on the basis of single market membership - would have be this year as after next spring it's too late. 15 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: One that delivers social justice and gives real economic and political power to the working class, friend. Who do you have in mind? At the minute it's two parties full of middle class grammar or privately educated front benches who are more borgeious than any previous government I've seen. (David Davis and Angela Rayner aside) I like them both BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 2 hours ago, Buce said: What our country needs is a new government. Absolutely. Under labour we were only spending the EU average on health. The idea that that is more than we should spend is ridiculous right wing nonsense. Tory policies killed people in the 90s and they're at it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, MattP said: Who do you have in mind? At the minute it's two parties full of middle class grammar or privately educated front benches who are more borgeious than any previous government I've seen. (David Davis and Angela Rayner aside) I like them both BTW. John McDonnell is going to take the wealth away from those who havn’t earned it like the buy to let and professional gambler parasites and empower the unions again, friend. Edited 11 January 2018 by Sharpe's Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 Good news coming friends, arch-parasite housebuilders about to get absolutely fisted up the arse. Hopefully G4S next. https://www.ft.com/content/1b4ab6aa-f6f9-11e7-8715-e94187b3017e Senior ministers from across most of Whitehall gathered on Thursday to discuss the plight of Carillion amid fears the ailing contractor is close to collapse. David Lidington, Cabinet Office minister, convened the afternoon gathering of senior figures including Greg Clark, business secretary, Jo Johnson, transport minister, Liz Truss, chief secretary to the Treasury and justice minister Rory Stewart to discuss the possible demise of the construction and services group. Also present were ministers from the culture, health, education and communities departments as well as the Foreign Office. The scale of the meeting reflects the importance of Carillion to the government given its contracts with numerous departments, and in particular justice, transport and defence. These will need to be replaced — or taken in-house — if the company collapses. Alongside work on the HS2 rail link, Carillion provides facilities management for schools as well as services for the armed forces and on “smart motorways” for the Highways Agency. Ministers also discussed the wider ramifications of potential job losses at the company, which employs 43,000 staff worldwide — of which 19,500 are in the UK. Carillion on Wednesday met with 200 lenders and advisers in Canary Wharf to talk about a revised business plan to secure its future. Its shares fell 12 per cent, or 2.6p, to close at 20p on Thursday night after no news emerged of any agreement from the talks — 90 per cent below its price of 200p a year ago. The group’s creditors include Royal Bank of Scotland, Barclays, Santander and HSBC. Its lenders have already agreed to delay a crucial banking test from December 31 to the end of April. A further meeting on Friday will be held between Cabinet Office officials, the company, the Pensions Regulator, pension scheme trustees and the Pension Protection Fund to discuss the future of the pension scheme, which has a £590m deficit. The Pensions Regulator said: “We have been and remain closely involved in discussions with Carillion and the trustees of the pension schemes as this situation has unfolded.” The PPF said it would act to protect the interest of Carillion scheme members and levy payers. Carillion, one of the UK government’s biggest contractors, was once valued at £2bn after it was pieced together from the construction divisions of Tarmac, Wimpey, Mowlem and Alfred McAlpine. Now it is fighting for survival following a profit warning last year. The company is grappling with net debts of at least £900m — as well as the pension deficit — which hugely outweigh its stock market valuation of less than £100m. The crisis was sparked last year when the Wolverhampton-based company warned it was losing cash on key contracts, debt was rising and that it would have to write off £800m and suspend its dividend, leading to the departure of former chief executive Richard Howson. A plan to raise £300m through sell-offs by the end of 2018 has so far only delivered £50m. The group is also being investigated by the Financial Conduct Authority over financial statements it issued in the run-up to July’s profit warning. Last month, Carillion brought forward the start date for new chief executive Andrew Davies to January 22. Unite, Britain’s biggest trade union, urged ministers to consider “all possible options” including stripping the company of all its contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: John McDonnell is going to take the wealth away from those who havn’t earned it like the buy to let and professional gambler parasites and empower the unions again, friend. I can't wait, I'm going to be quids in. When does McDonnell start lynching the women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 1 hour ago, toddybad said: Absolutely. Under labour we were only spending the EU average on health. The idea that that is more than we should spend is ridiculous right wing nonsense. Tory policies killed people in the 90s and they're at it again. You should be happy. A couple of days ago you couldn't wait until we were all dead so you could reverse brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 11 January 2018 Share Posted 11 January 2018 Whenever the Labour party brings a politician out I think is so stupid it can't get worse they somehow find another one. Dawn Butler is thicker than Diane Abbott and David Lammy put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Whenever the Labour party brings a politician out I think is so stupid it can't get worse they somehow find another one. Dawn Butler is thicker than Diane Abbott and David Lammy put together. Thick politicians on the labour side are more obvious to spot that their tory equivalents, I'll give you that. But there are a lot of idiots on the tory side too - like Liam fox - it's just that they are able to at least speak relatively eloquently about the absolute rubbish that they pass off as intelligent and rational debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 36 minutes ago, toddybad said: Thick politicians on the labour side are more obvious to spot that their tory equivalents, I'll give you that. Yes they are. If you haven't watched it have a look at David Lammy finishing last on celebrity mastermind, it's brilliant. He thought Marie Curie was executed by the French, it would be funny if he wasn't the shadow schools minister at the time. In a weird way I want you to win the next election as it would be so funny I'd never stop laughing. McDonnell is off to Davos now Just imagine this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Good news coming friends, arch-parasite housebuilders about to get absolutely fisted up the arse. Hopefully G4S next. https://www.ft.com/content/1b4ab6aa-f6f9-11e7-8715-e94187b3017e Carrilion doesn’t build houses, friend, but I’m surprised* the government are considering bailing them out at the tax payers expense. *this is sarcasm, I’m not really surprised, the Tories are very given to protectionism when there is a risk of their big business friends not making lots of money. They will be bailed out, top brass will be given golden handshakes, us plebs will pay for their failures as always. Edited 12 January 2018 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rogstanley said: Carrilion doesn’t build houses, friend, but I’m surprised* the government are considering bailing them out at the tax payers expense. *this is sarcasm, I’m not really surprised, the Tories are very given to protectionism when there is a risk of their big business friends not making lots of money. They will be bailed out, top brass will be given golden handshakes, us plebs will pay for their failures as always. A private sector company failing to be able to deliver public service contracts. As with health companies, as with train companies, as with g4s, as with all manner of outsourcing companies. Hard to understand why the right continues to think outsourcing and privatisation are such good ideas despite the evidence to the contrary. Separately, quite a number of large retailers are starting to go under, it can't just be me that's noticed. It could be movement to online sales, of course, which would be unsurprising, but the last customer spending figures from visa showed a dip also (I think it was visa). Edited 12 January 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 1 hour ago, toddybad said: A private sector company failing to be able to deliver public service contracts. As with health companies, as with train companies, as with g4s, as with all manner of outsourcing companies. Hard to understand why the right continues to think outsourcing and privatisation are such good ideas despite the evidence to the contrary. Separately, quite a number of large retailers are starting to go under, it can't just be me that's noticed. It could be movement to online sales, of course, which would be unsurprising, but the last customer spending figures from visa showed a dip also (I think it was visa). Outsourcing and privatisation are generally fine as long as its to the right company. Unfortunately what we usuall see when this involves public services, the company making the money having links to MP’s. That stinks regardless of whether it’s Labour or Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: Outsourcing and privatisation are generally fine as long as its to the right company. Unfortunately what we usuall see when this involves public services, the company making the money having links to MP’s. That stinks regardless of whether it’s Labour or Tory. For me, and I say this having been involved in tendering to win contracts, and having worked for an outsourcing company, the process of outsourcing is a race to the bottom. You find that quality accounts for around half of scoring and the rest is price. As the people making decisions are rarely expert themselves (they'll have an idea but are outsourcing the expertise) the quality score is as much about presentation and your ability to craft a response as the reality. It's why big firms continuously win contracts - they have slick PR which gets them halfway over the line even if they aren't technically capable of providing the best service. This means that price is huge. Companies enter the minimum work possible (I have to say this didn't apply to my employer but did to our competitors) to minimise the price. They then charge extra for ANYTHING else, even if those extras were previously just a normal aspect of in-house service provision. Savings are therefore not realised, service is worsened and, usually, staff see their T&CS reduced - even if protected by TUPE it doesn't take long for companies to amend business plans and structures to get around it. This happens again and again and again. Edited 12 January 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: For me, and I say this having been involved in tendering to win contracts, and having worked for an outsourcing company, the process of outsourcing is a race to the bottom. You find that quality accounts for around half of scoring and the rest is price. As the people making decisions are rarely expert themselves (they'll have an idea but are outsourcing the expertise) the quality score is as much about presentation and your ability to craft a response as the reality. It's why big forms continuously win contracts - they have slick PR which gets them halfway over the line even if they aren't technically capable of providing the best service. This means that price is huge. Companies enter the minimum work possible (I have to say this didn't apply to my employer but did to our competitors) to minimise the price. They then charge extra for ANYTHING else, even if those extra were previously just a normal aspect of in-house service provision. Savings are therefore not realised, service is worsened and, usually, staff see their T&CS reduced - even if protected by TUPE it doesn't take long for companies to amend business plans and structures to get around it. This happens again and again and again. For anyone else not familiar with the acronym, "TUPE" seems to be "Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said: For anyone else not familiar with the acronym, "TUPE" seems to be "Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)". Under TUPE if a service is bought out/outsourced etc, staff transfer to their new employer with their current terms and conditions intact. This is welcome for public sector employees. However, there are a number of reasons why this can no longer apply, one of which is a need to restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 Just now, toddybad said: Under TUPE if a service is bought out/outsourced etc, staff transfer to their new employer with their current terms and conditions intact. This is welcome for public sector employees. However, there are a number of reasons why this can no longer apply, one of which is a need to restructure. When I worked for Fujitsu telcom on the virgin media network, they had recently won the contract. Whilst I was a new employee, quite a number had been tupeed over from, I think Kelly’s communications. The amount of pressure and underhand tactics used to force staff to change on to new contracts was ridiculous. They were basically stuck on the worst payed jobs in the furthest reaches of your area until they submitted. Or sent too no shows, or branches and put on repulls, it was a complete disgrace. God knows why they all stayed, I moved on a few months later. Most of them are still there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 17 minutes ago, toddybad said: Under TUPE if a service is bought out/outsourced etc, staff transfer to their new employer with their current terms and conditions intact. This is welcome for public sector employees. However, there are a number of reasons why this can no longer apply, one of which is a need to restructure. In a publicly funded company I used to work for the standard practice was to make jobs redundant weeks after the person had been TUPE'd over and then offer them a new job with the same (or more) responsibilities but with a different job title and without fail significantly lower pay. This tactic was common knowledge among anyone who had worked there for a while but newer people fell for it again and again. Scandalous stuff, really. Your previous posts hits the nail on the head in my experience too. I've seen expensively assembled elaborate procurement matrices weighted so that a 0.1% reduction in cost outweighs every other factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 Good convo here lads try to keep the thread this high level if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 23 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Good convo here lads try to keep the thread this high level if possible 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 Further and further into the gutter he goes, Farage fined for misuse of public funds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42669293 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January 2018 Share Posted 12 January 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts