Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Rogstanley]

Can't find that article by searching online. I wonder why Harry Cole didn't just link to it? Might have been deleted I suppose but would like to see a bit more evidence of it actually being real.

 

But then again I suppose expecting actual evidence is just stupid Corbyn-esque dilly dallying. Screw it, throw on the sanctions, drop the bombs, we are tough and brave!

Edited 17 April 2018 by Rogstanley

[Rogstanley]

4 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

 

The Interest of business is very much my interest if it keeps me in a job and able to pay for a home and a car etc etc. If government interferes with that they will need to provide for me.

Businesses are making record profits while wages have gone down, down and down. The expectation that business success will mean financial success for you is at the heart of your political philosophy but it is deeply flawed I'm afraid.

Edited 17 April 2018 by Rogstanley

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, Rogstanley said:

Businesses are making record profits while wages have gone down, down and down. The expectation that business success will mean financial success for you is at the heart of your political philosophy but it is deeply flawed I'm afraid.

For some of us, there's a very clear and direct link between business success and financial success for us as individuals.

 

During the recession around '08, many businesses were struggling and one of the first things they 'cut' is their training budget. This had a direct impact on me as an independent trainer and coach. When business is booming and companies are making record profits, they have the money to invest in training and development which is good for me and others like me.

 

How is that philosophy deeply flawed? 

[Rogstanley]

55 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

For some of us, there's a very clear and direct link between business success and financial success for us as individuals.

 

During the recession around '08, many businesses were struggling and one of the first things they 'cut' is their training budget. This had a direct impact on me as an independent trainer and coach. When business is booming and companies are making record profits, they have the money to invest in training and development which is good for me and others like me.

 

How is that philosophy deeply flawed? 

Of course there are some winners and there is a reasonable argument to be made that a vibrant business market provides jobs and opportunities for people to progress.

 

What I think is deeply flawed is the idea that the above justifies pursuing business success at all costs. What we've seen in this country is businesses being very successful, making record profits, but wages plummeting year after year. Clearly for the average person, the success of business is not doing them much good.

 

Foxin bought up Germany as an example of a place where doing business can supposedly be difficult, implying that worker power over there is a bad thing. In actual fact German workers work fewer hours for more pay - something which most reasonable workers would consider a good thing - and their overall economy is no weaker for it.

 

To be clear I'm not arguing for an extreme position here, just a recognition that in a capitalist system business success very often comes at the expense of the workers. It takes socialist-style policies to ensure the rewards of business success are distributed in anything close to a fair manner. People like foxin would be better off recognising who butters his bread instead of constantly defending the interests of organisations that don't care about him one bit.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

30 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Of course there are some winners and there is a reasonable argument to be made that a vibrant business market provides jobs and opportunities for people to progress.

 

What I think is deeply flawed is the idea that the above justifies pursuing business success at all costs. What we've seen in this country is businesses being very successful, making record profits, but wages plummeting year after year. Clearly for the average person, the success of business is not doing them much good.

 

Foxin bought up Germany as an example of a place where doing business can supposedly be difficult, implying that worker power over there is a bad thing. In actual fact German workers work fewer hours for more pay - something which most reasonable workers would consider a good thing - and their overall economy is no weaker for it.

 

To be clear I'm not arguing for an extreme position here, just a recognition that in a capitalist system business success very often comes at the expense of the workers. It takes socialist-style policies to ensure the rewards of business success are distributed in anything close to a fair manner. People like foxin would be better off recognising who butters his bread instead of constantly defending the interests of organisations that don't care about him one bit.

Its doing them good if they have a job, can earn money, gain the self respect of working and earning their own money and paying for their own processions. Instead of having their lifestyle funded by the government. 

 

Obviously we have already been through the low skilled jobs, low wage held down by mass unskilled immigration from countries with lower standards of living in the EU the highlights the whole floored system of full freedom of movement across the EU where countries have massive disparity in living standards. 

 

I have staff in Germany. Many are excellent (most Germans have a cracking sense of humour) but some are terrible, you actually struggle to remove them from the business even if they are shit without getting taken to court. Instead its now easier to move them to another role and hope they get fed up with it, often with the incompetent this leads to them going off sick and then you are still stuck paying the considerably higher wages of a useless staff member, its hard to win over there. Germany maybe goes slightly too far the other way in terms of 'worker rights' as don many European countries. What is to be applauded is many of their factories and efficiency, high quality and high tech are something we should aspire to. To some extent now we are producing great quality items here now, the problem here is tech and innovation (R&D) for some reason we just don't do it, the equipment we use is decades old in many cases. We need more investment here, good business will do it. 

 

Socialist style policies of wealth distribution sounds pretty extremist to me, I am sure that many businesses would be horrified by such a policy and many would relocate, many more so than will be affected by the so called calamity that is Brexit. 

 

Who exactly butters my bread then? I thought it was me? I don't expect the government to give me anything for nothing. 

[Innovindil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43793605

 

 

[Rogstanley]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

 

Alternative headline: wages still falling

[Rogstanley]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43793605

 

 

Alternative headline: pound still well below long run pre-referendum average

[Guest Foxin_mad]

9 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Alternative headline: pound still well below long run pre-referendum average

Imagine how low it would go with a Corbyn led government, parity with the Euro/Dollar would be a very likely possibility. 

[Innovindil]

21 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Alternative headline: wages still falling

Not as good as the guardian headline tbf. 

 

Britain's cost of living squeeze eases as pay overtakes inflation - business live

[Guest Foxin_mad]

In other news I see that far left extremist twat Chris Williamson is making a complete and utter willy puller out of himself again. Who the hell votes for these cretins?

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-mp-chris-williamson-applauds-song-at-stop-the-war-demonstration-mocking-jews-as-the-light-of-the-world-the-chosen-1.462500

[Rogstanley]

32 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Imagine how low it would go with a Corbyn led government, parity with the Euro/Dollar would be a very likely possibility. 

[Buce]

 

The look of horror at being asked to shake May's hand

 

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

Its doing them good if they have a job, can earn money, gain the self respect of working and earning their own money and paying for their own processions. Instead of having their lifestyle funded by the government. 

 

Obviously we have already been through the low skilled jobs, low wage held down by mass unskilled immigration from countries with lower standards of living in the EU the highlights the whole floored system of full freedom of movement across the EU where countries have massive disparity in living standards. 

 

I have staff in Germany. Many are excellent (most Germans have a cracking sense of humour) but some are terrible, you actually struggle to remove them from the business even if they are shit without getting taken to court. Instead its now easier to move them to another role and hope they get fed up with it, often with the incompetent this leads to them going off sick and then you are still stuck paying the considerably higher wages of a useless staff member, its hard to win over there. Germany maybe goes slightly too far the other way in terms of 'worker rights' as don many European countries. What is to be applauded is many of their factories and efficiency, high quality and high tech are something we should aspire to. To some extent now we are producing great quality items here now, the problem here is tech and innovation (R&D) for some reason we just don't do it, the equipment we use is decades old in many cases. We need more investment here, good business will do it. 

 

Socialist style policies of wealth distribution sounds pretty extremist to me, I am sure that many businesses would be horrified by such a policy and many would relocate, many more so than will be affected by the so called calamity that is Brexit. 

 

Who exactly butters my bread then? I thought it was me? I don't expect the government to give me anything for nothing. 

12

I think this discussion has been had before - know Muzzy was involved but not sure you were - and it simply comes down to perception, really. Some people choose to believe that they have near or total control over their own lives, some people think given the way power works that isn't true and it's simply a comfort blanket to stop them from feeling pretty terrible.

[Webbo]

6 hours ago, Innovindil said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

 

 

6 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43793605

 

 

#despitebrexit

[Rogstanley]

25 minutes ago, Webbo said:

 

#despitebrexit

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Bad!? in what way me old china?

[Wymsey]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Bad!? in what way me old china?

Just came across this via Facebook. What's your reaction?

Personally feel that, like the users have commented, Syston and surrounding areas are becoming too populated. More houses will put more strain on the doctors etc.

[Guest MattP]

That was probably the most bizarre debate I've ever seen in the HoC - Corbyn's authority destroyed as everyone basically stood up to condemn antisemitism and/or him. 

 

Any other time a party leader had overseen this they would be long gone. 

 

He didn't even have the guts to speak, left it to Diane Abbott, who naturally ****ed it up.

[Webbo]

1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Just came across this via Facebook. What's your reaction?

Personally feel that, like the users have commented, Syston and surrounding areas are becoming too populated. More houses will put more strain on the doctors etc.

That's the first I've seen of it. The country needs houses, I'm not instinctively against it, but I don't know enough about it to decide.

[Kopfkino]

Something about the left being caring, kind, friendly folk. Only if you're one of them though.

[Kopfkino]

 

In fact John Mann's speech has to be seen. It matters not the party or the ideological origins because daftness exists across the range, but that people deem this behaviour to be acceptable is a stain on our society.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Just came across this via Facebook. What's your reaction?

Personally feel that, like the users have commented, Syston and surrounding areas are becoming too populated. More houses will put more strain on the doctors etc.

Has to go ahead. Every single village has a nimby faction. Every single nimby faction should be ignored. Where do people think their children are going to live?

Edited 17 April 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

In fact John Mann's speech has to be seen. It matters not the party or the ideological origins because daftness exists across the range, but that people deem this behaviour to be acceptable is a stain on our society.

What an excellent speech.

It's refreshing to listen to backbenchers sometimes. Less bs. I might not agree with mann on everything but good speech.