Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[breadandcheese]

12 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

In fact John Mann's speech has to be seen. It matters not the party or the ideological origins because daftness exists across the range, but that people deem this behaviour to be acceptable is a stain on our society.

That's actually quite a shocking watch, to hear what threats he's had to his family. When people talk about self-serving MPs, they should hear all the shit that the MPs have to put up with. 

Edited 17 April 2018 by breadandcheese

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Something about the left being caring, kind, friendly folk. Only if you're one of them though.

Honestly shocked to hear the stuff sent to the MP. I struggle to understand where bile like that comes from. Hard to know how much is labour and how much is Twitter but, either way, disgraceful.

[breadandcheese]

9 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Has to go ahead. Every single village has a nimby faction. Every single nimby faction should be ignored. Where do people think their children are going to live?

I agree with that. It just needs the pace of service provision needs to keep up with house building. 

[Wymsey]

Jeremy Corbyn

 

@jeremycorbyn

 

.@Theresa_May hasn't posted anything this year about registering to vote. The Prime Minister doesn't want you to vote because she has failed our country. Thursday 3 May is your chance to send her a message. Register to vote before 11.59pm tonight: (link: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote) gov.uk/register-to-vo…

 

 

8:30 pm · 17 Apr 2018

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

That's actually quite a shocking watch, to hear what threats he's had to his family. When people talk about self-serving MPs, they should hear all the shit that the MPs have to put up with. 

 

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

Honestly shocked to hear the stuff sent to the MP. I struggle to understand where bile like that comes from. Hard to know how much is labour and how much is Twitter but, either way, disgraceful.

 

It is pretty damned awful. I've never understood the need for such polarisation and bile in the name of power for only one group tbh, no matter who that group might be.

[breadandcheese]

10 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Jeremy Corbyn

 

@jeremycorbyn

 

.@Theresa_May hasn't posted anything this year about registering to vote. The Prime Minister doesn't want you to vote because she has failed our country. Thursday 3 May is your chance to send her a message. Register to vote before 11.59pm tonight: (link: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote) gov.uk/register-to-vo…

 

 

8:30 pm · 17 Apr 2018

Seriously, what the hell is that from Jeremy Corbyn or his spokesperson?  Does he really believe that the prime minister doesn't want people to vote and this is evident from not posting about it on twitter.

 

It's rubbish like this that feeds into a discourse of polarisation and hate for those with a different political position to you.  It's just stupid.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

54 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

Seriously, what the hell is that from Jeremy Corbyn or his spokesperson?  Does he really believe that the prime minister doesn't want people to vote and this is evident from not posting about it on twitter.

 

It's rubbish like this that feeds into a discourse of polarisation and hate for those with a different political position to you.  It's just stupid.

 

Can see why he hasn’t done anything about anti-semitism from within the party though, given the +99 notifications still to get through - it’s simply in a back log and he’ll get round to it eventually.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

4 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Just came across this via Facebook. What's your reaction?

Personally feel that, like the users have commented, Syston and surrounding areas are becoming too populated. More houses will put more strain on the doctors etc.

 

What are you trying to fit into?

[ealingfox]

58 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

Seriously, what the hell is that from Jeremy Corbyn or his spokesperson?  Does he really believe that the prime minister doesn't want people to vote and this is evident from not posting about it on twitter.

 

It's rubbish like this that feeds into a discourse of polarisation and hate for those with a different political position to you.  It's just stupid.

 

 Eh?

 

Whats wrong with it? It's a perfectly valid thing to point out. He's the Leader of the Opposition ffs. There's nothing on other social media channels about either - that's a bit weird whether you like it or not. The deadline for registering to vote is today, only takes a few seconds for an aide to knock out a post reminding people to register so complete silence on the matter is pretty clearly premeditated.

 

There's plenty to criticise the bloke for but this determination to be outraged and go over the top with criticism about literally everything he does is frankly embarrassing, far more so than a tweet about actual elections that are happening nationwide in our country in 2 weeks time.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

15 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

 Eh?

 

Whats wrong with it? It's a perfectly valid thing to point out. He's the Leader of the Opposition ffs. There's nothing on other social media channels about either - that's a bit weird whether you like it or not. The deadline for registering to vote is today, only takes a few seconds for an aide to knock out a post reminding people to register so complete silence on the matter is pretty clearly premeditated.

 

There's plenty to criticise the bloke for but this determination to be outraged and go over the top with criticism about literally everything he does is frankly embarrassing, far more so than a tweet about actual elections that are happening nationwide in our country in 2 weeks time.

It’s opportunist rubbish, given this local elections where most of the country couldn’t give a toss. May has much more important things to do anyway, such as bombing foreign lands and deporting people of colour. 

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

It’s opportunist rubbish, given this local elections where most of the country couldn’t give a toss. May has much more important things to do anyway, such as bombing foreign lands and deporting people of colour. 

She might have time to deal with all of that but apparently it’s taking her an extra hour to get too and from work each day. Something about congestion near Westminster due to bearded, big nose protesters or something......very strange.

Edited 18 April 2018 by Strokes

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

It’s opportunist rubbish, given this local elections where most of the country couldn’t give a toss. May has much more important things to do anyway, such as bombing foreign lands and deporting people of colour. 

Pretty sure TM doesn't operate the party's Twitter account personally. It's very strange for a major party not to be pushing sign ups pre-election.

 

Edited 18 April 2018 by Guest

[Guest MattP]

14 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Pretty sure TM doesn't operate the party's Twitter account personally. It's very strange for a major party not to be pushing sign ups pre-election.

Maybe the Tories don't want to do that well?

 

Let's see Momentum take over half of London and then the three years of infighting, antisemitism and incompetence that follows it - could be the best thing that happens to the Conservatives before 2022.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

Maybe the Tories don't want to do that well?

 

Let's see Momentum take over half of London and then the three years of infighting, antisemitism and incompetence that follows it - could be the best thing that happens to the Conservatives before 2022.

What a load of tripe.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

What a load of tripe.

Problem for you is it isn't. 

 

Lowering expections can be a good thing as well, look at the disastrous council elections for Labour in 2017 - it led to expectations being so low they were celebrating and giving Corbyn a standing ovation for winning around the same amount of seats Brown and Kinnock did.

[Webbo]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

Maybe the Tories don't want to do that well?

 

Let's see Momentum take over half of London and then the three years of infighting, antisemitism and incompetence that follows it - could be the best thing that happens to the Conservatives before 2022.

I read something similar to that a few months ago. Obviously the Tories would prefer to do well ( doesn't look likely) but a load of hard left councils wouldn't be the worst thing, long term.

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I read something similar to that a few months ago. Obviously the Tories would prefer to do well ( doesn't look likely) but a load of hard left councils wouldn't be the worst thing, long term.

It would give them something to show the public as to what it would be like without having to speak about the 70's or Venezuela. Which would be handy.

[Milo]

12 hours ago, toddybad said:

Has to go ahead. Every single village has a nimby faction. Every single nimby faction should be ignored. Where do people think their children are going to live?

Where are my children going to be educated? Where are they going to go when they’re sick? How are they going to get from A to B?

 

I live in a town with a population of around 25k - there is a monstrous development on the outskirts of the town that will house around 3,000 people, increasing the population by more than 10%. There are plans approved for an additional 3 blocks of ‘luxury urban apartments’ for around another 500 people. Mainly commuters as we are half an hour train ride from central London. 

 

Current state of affairs is that the roads are already choked - gridlocked during morning and evening rush, trains into London are squeezed to capacity. Doctors are squeezed to capacity. Hospitals are squeezed to capacity. We’ve just been informed that the class sizes at our kids school are to be increased. Every summer we get put on water restrictions as there is apparently not enough water to service the current residents. 

 

 

Yeah, all nimby’s should be ignored. 

[Buce]

Each Brexit scenario will leave Britain worse off, study finds

Global Future finds Theresa May’s preferred bespoke deal would cost £615m a week

 

Each of the government’s four Brexit scenarios, including a bespoke deal, would leave Britain poorer and cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds each week, analysis has shown.

The study for the thinktank Global Future by Jonathan Portes, a professor of economics and public policy at King’s College, London, found that a bespoke deal, the government’s preferred option, would have a net negative fiscal impact of about £40bn a year.

Polling commissioned for study by Populus, which is run by David Cameron’s former strategy chief Andrew Cooper, found that voters, even those who backed Brexit, feared that leaving the European Union would come at “too high a price”.

 

The analysis came as the government braced itself for defeats in parliament on Wednesday, including over its plans to take the UK out of the customs union, as the EU withdrawal bill returns to the House of Lords.

Nine senior Conservatives, including two former cabinet ministers, are among those who have put their names to a series of cross-party amendments aimed at persuading Theresa May to rethink her position.

The amendment giving parliament a vote on staying in a customs union, which is almost certain to pass, would mean MPs will get a say on the contentious issue despite the government’s efforts to kick it into the long grass. The only way the prime minister will be able to avoid defeat will be to offer significant concessions.

The Global Future research is based on the government’s own impact studies on three different Brexit scenarios, but also examines a fourth option – a bespoke deal – using data from the official assessments along with details set out by the prime minister in her Mansion House speech.

It suggested that option would increase the cost of non-tariff barriers by £23bn over the status quo. Other costs – including customs barriers, divorce payments and ongoing contributions – would add another £38bn while limits on free movement would dent the economy by £6bn.

However, the analysis found that a bespoke deal could also bring in £27bn extra to the Treasury, including from customs revenue and EU budget savings. Overall, the net cost of the deal would be £40bn a year by 2033-34, or £615m a week in today’s prices.

After looking at all four options available to the prime minister, the study established that in the long-term, the amount of money available for spending on public services would fall. Under the so-called Norway option, there would be £262m less a week, under the Canada model it would be £877m, while under a no deal it would be £1.25bn.

 

Brexit will cost UK public services £40bn a year under the government’s preferred deal, rising to £81bn in a ‘no deal’ scenario

 

This would mean 22% less funding available for the NHS if there was a bespoke deal, and 9%, 31% and 44% less under each of the other options.

A poll of 2,000 people for Global Future found they overwhelmingly thought all four possible deals – bespoke, remaining in the European Economic Area, a free trade agreement and crashing out onto World Trade Organization terms – were bad.

It also found that 72% of those who voted leave thought that £615m a week would be too high a price to pay for the bespoke deal; while 78% felt it was worse than they had hoped for when casting their vote in the EU referendum.

When forced to choose between the four scenarios described, more than half of all those polled – 51%– opted for the Norway-style deal, which has the least impact on public finances and trade, as well as the fewest additional controls of immigration. Leave voters also narrowly preferred this option – 37% compared with 36% who backed a bespoke deal.

Portes said: “If we are to decide what sort of Brexit we want, the least we need is a menu, with prices. The one we have prepared represents the government’s current best estimates. It’s up to us to decide which of these prices is worth

[Buce]

 

Even Leave voters overwhelmingly think cost of Brexit is a price not worth paying:

 

http://ourglobalfuture.com/reports/too-high-a-price-the-cost-of-brexit-what-the-public-thinks/

[Rogstanley]

17 minutes ago, Milo said:

Where are my children going to be educated? Where are they going to go when they’re sick? How are they going to get from A to B?

 

I live in a town with a population of around 25k - there is a monstrous development on the outskirts of the town that will house around 3,000 people, increasing the population by more than 10%. There are plans approved for an additional 3 blocks of ‘luxury urban apartments’ for around another 500 people. Mainly commuters as we are half an hour train ride from central London. 

 

Current state of affairs is that the roads are already choked - gridlocked during morning and evening rush, trains into London are squeezed to capacity. Doctors are squeezed to capacity. Hospitals are squeezed to capacity. We’ve just been informed that the class sizes at our kids school are to be increased. Every summer we get put on water restrictions as there is apparently not enough water to service the current residents. 

 

 

Yeah, all nimby’s should be ignored. 

Wherever they put the houses all the associated infrastructure and services would need to be upgraded. The fact that is seemingly so rarely done is a failing of the government, it's what we pay taxes for.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

Where are my children going to be educated? Where are they going to go when they’re sick? How are they going to get from A to B?

 

I live in a town with a population of around 25k - there is a monstrous development on the outskirts of the town that will house around 3,000 people, increasing the population by more than 10%. There are plans approved for an additional 3 blocks of ‘luxury urban apartments’ for around another 500 people. Mainly commuters as we are half an hour train ride from central London. 

 

Current state of affairs is that the roads are already choked - gridlocked during morning and evening rush, trains into London are squeezed to capacity. Doctors are squeezed to capacity. Hospitals are squeezed to capacity. We’ve just been informed that the class sizes at our kids school are to be increased. Every summer we get put on water restrictions as there is apparently not enough water to service the current residents. 

 

 

Yeah, all nimby’s should be ignored. 

Yes, the nimbys should be ignored.

But that doesn't detract from the fact that you're right, local services and transport links should also be upgraded.

Whatever the houses go money needs to be spent.

[Guest]

Even private sector providers are calling out the lack of investment in health

 

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 hour ago, Rogstanley said:

Wherever they put the houses all the associated infrastructure and services would need to be upgraded. The fact that is seemingly so rarely done is a failing of the government, it's what we pay taxes for.

Its actually a failing of local authorities. They have the ability to block planning or ensure that builders make the necessary infrastructure improvements as a condition of planning. They often don't.

 

Local authorities should also be ensuring that brownfield sites are developed as a priority over building on greenfield land. 

[Guest]

So the government ordered the destruction of records relating to the windrush generation in 2010. Number 10 and the home office have denied that this has had an effect on the mistaken deportation of those caught up. Whistleblowers and FOI requests reveal the government is lying. Unforgivable.

 

Whistleblowers contradict No 10 over destroyed Windrush landing cards

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/whistleblowers-contradict-no-10-over-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard