lifted*fox Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 Just now, Strokes said: I hope it goes wrong too, I only voted for it to annoy people like you anyway and it will, still definitely annoy you lot more than me if it does go wrong. makes us about as petulant as each other then tbf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 and you know what man, the more I think about it - **** it, right - my attitude on it looks selfish, self-gratification; a bit dark BUT at least I'm honest and can admit I'm being selfish unlike some people on here who clearly have their own interests at heart but dress it up as some sort of lusting for a better UK for everyone when it absolutely 100% looks like it's going to be quite the opposite. such horse-shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 3 hours ago, lifted*fox said: haha, always brutally honest man, you know me - I can't find any false enthusiasm for this shit, it's a farce. and once I find my happy place man, you're always welcome to come and visit and take a break from post-Brexit Britain there. Can you take about 15m of us in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 3 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Well they do say that optimism is a learned behavior mate. As humans we're 7 times more pessimistic than optimistic apparently! Here's a link to a book I read about it that you'll probably never order https://www.amazon.co.uk/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/1473684315/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530813134&sr=8-1&keywords=learned+optimism+by+martin+seligman You wouldn't know it but in the real world I'm normally really quite positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 1 hour ago, lifted*fox said: and you know what man, the more I think about it - **** it, right - my attitude on it looks selfish, self-gratification; a bit dark BUT at least I'm honest and can admit I'm being selfish unlike some people on here who clearly have their own interests at heart but dress it up as some sort of lusting for a better UK for everyone when it absolutely 100% looks like it's going to be quite the opposite. such horse-shit. Well tbh with you mate, some of us have kids who will be the next generation and we kinda hope it all works out for their sake too. For those of us who are staying put on these shores then yeah, it's quite important that we have a better UK for everyone as that impacts on us as individuals too. Not to mention those of us who have pensions linked to stock market performance etc. Of course we've all got our own self interests at heart - that's perfectly understandable. But I don't think anyone of a sound mind really wants to see anyone else suffer therefore a better UK for everyone is fine with me. At least I'm being honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: You wouldn't know it but in the real world I'm normally really quite positive. I'd love to see the normally really positive real world Toddy on here too. Do people really have a different real world and on-line persona? That seems like hard work to me. I'm exactly the same on here as I am in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 I'm a **** wherever you find me tbf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 45 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I'd love to see the normally really positive real world Toddy on here too. Do people really have a different real world and on-line persona? That seems like hard work to me. I'm exactly the same on here as I am in real life. It's not really about negativity imo. I believe we have a range of issues that need to be resolved. Yes, o.don't agree with the current mob and their solutions but I did believe there are solutions and there can be a better world. Disagreeing with what we have doesn't mean I'm negative imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 5 July 2018 Share Posted 5 July 2018 4 minutes ago, toddybad said: It's not really about negativity imo. I believe we have a range of issues that need to be resolved. Yes, o.don't agree with the current mob and their solutions but I did believe there are solutions and there can be a better world. Disagreeing with what we have doesn't mean I'm negative imo. Mate, you said "You wouldn't know it but in the real world I'm normally really quite positive" I never said you were negative. I just said it would be nice to see normally really quite positive Toddy on here occasionally - that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 The outcome of today’s Chequers cabinet summiton Brexit policy was not yet known at the time of writing. Yet the 11th-hour proceedings, and everything that has led up to them since well before the 2016 referendum, underscore a huge and continuing political truth. That truth is not affected by the Chequers outcome – and it is not sufficiently often stated either. Yet it blights every aspect of our political life as a nation. Most revolutionaries have a plan for what they want to do after the revolution. Cromwell had one. So did Washington and Robespierre, Lenin and Mao. The plans may have been good ones or terrible ones, but at least they were plans. These revolutionaries were desperate to implement their projects. Britain’s Brexiters are not like that. They want their revolutionary act – leaving the European Union – and they have got it. But they accept absolutely no responsibility for what comes afterwards. Instead they arrogate to themselves the right to carp, criticise, reject, undermine and denounce as betrayal every aspect of every attempt to define the consequences of their revolution. They have no doctrine other than dislike of the EU. They have no programme to replace it. Their revolutionism is a performance not a project. It’s an act – vacuous, hollow, infantile, fanciful and foolish. The Chequers meeting has been a classic illustration of this fundamentally frivolous and destructive approach to politics. After two largely wasted years, and with the clock ticking towards Brexit in March 2019, Theresa May finally came up with a plan this week to try to give the Brexiters what they want – Brexit – but on terms that many remainers can live with. She and her officials have spent months trying to craft a compromise that would combine Brexit with terms that allows Britain to keep its promises on Ireland and to maintain jobs and the economy. And the response? As soon as they got the Chequers draft, the Brexiters did the only three things they ever do. First they denounced the draft as a betrayal, then they leaked their version of it to the anti-European press, and finally they closeted themselves away to threaten and plot against Mrs May. Detailed alternatives? Different drafts that might resolve difficulties, bring disputants together or persuade the EU? Dream on. Never at any stage do the Brexiters ever accept the practical duty of producing a detailed post-Brexit plan. Instead, David Davis smirks through meeting after meeting, Boris Johnson gabbily chases cheap headlines, Michael Gove spins a wordy web of courteous waffle and Liam Fox insists that black is white and white black. Mr Davis said this week that Mrs May’s ideas would not work. So, what might work instead? There was, predictably, no answer from Mr Davis. There never is. The Brexiters created the mess and the burden with which Mrs May has to wrestle. But it is never, ever, their fault. Nothing ever is. It is only, ever, Mrs May’s fault – or someone else’s fault: the civil service, the judges, business leaders, the Irish, the liberal elites or Brussels. Before the Brexit vote and since, the Brexiters have never put forward a detailed plan of their own. They did not do so this week. They spent 12 hours at Chequers not doing it. They won’t do it next week either. They don’t do plans. They only do fantasy. They spun a fantasy of takeover by Brussels; now they spin a fantasy of liberation from it. They have held our country, its politics, its press and its shared life hostage to their lazy second-rate dreariness for too long. It is time to take the fight to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TamworthFoxes Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Since brexit we are much better in world cups, that is not a coincidence, no chance. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 49 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said: Since brexit we are much better in world cups, that is not a coincidence, no chance. (We haven't left yet.) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUltimateWinner Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Just had a notification pop up on my phone saying that the cabinet have finally decided what type of Brexit they want. That's great, now we know what we want we can trigger article 50 and kick off the negotiating process with a clear vision! Oh wait... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Teresa May got everyone to go for the soft option then. LOL so much for that sweet sovereignty boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 (edited) Quote Cabinet Brexiters are struggling to counter May because they have no plan. They are all talk and no trousers. What alternatives do they propose? There are none. What customs system do they have apart from 'don't check the lorries'? There is none. What position do they have on the balance between alignment and trade? Nothing. They have no contribution at all except for their own preening self-indulgence. They have not engaged in any of the details of the debate, so they have nothing to contribute to it. This has been the case since the start: the greatest weakness of Brexit is the character and quality of those who promote it. By avoiding detail they did not escape it. They put themselves at its mercy. ... Pathway two sees the Cabinet fall apart, either immediately or in the near-future. What happens then? Perhaps May will go and be replaced by a Jacob Rees-Mogg type who'll deliver a no-deal Brexit. But the truth is, there is no parliament majority for no-deal. They can't get it through. If hard Brexiters take this to the wire, there is a good chance Brexit won't happen at all. Whichever way they look, the hard Brexiters are seeing dead ends. Their tawdry dream is falling apart around them. They will blame everyone but themselves. They'll blame Europe or May or Remainers or the civil service or the media. But they should be more circumspect. Their current strategic weakness is a product of their own ineptitude. They are the authors of their own misfortune. http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/06/week-in-review-wherever-brexiters-look-they-see-dead-ends Edited 6 July 2018 by lifted*fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 6 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: Teresa May got everyone to go for the soft option then. LOL so much for that sweet sovereignty boys No single market no customs union, fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Just now, Strokes said: No single market no customs union, fine by me. of course it is lol, you only voted for it to wind people up. not gonna go down well with the MattP's and the Webbo's of this world though. well, it won't but they'll change the goal-posts in an effort to save face, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Just now, Strokes said: No single market no customs union, fine by me. We'll have to see the details,atm it looks a little disappointing. With a bit of luck the EU will reject it and we can leave with no deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Seems pretty clear to me. Well done TM I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 Just now, Webbo said: We'll have to see the details,atm it looks a little disappointing. With a bit of luck the EU will reject it and we can leave with no deal. all your cabinet guys are pussies mate. they've let May do them dirty. no resignations. the hardcore Brexiteers in cabinet are backing down, tails between their legs. EU will entertain proposal to give May further support, reject it and keep leading her down the softest road possible. Brexit is dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: all your cabinet guys are pussies mate. they've let May do them dirty. no resignations. the hardcore Brexiteers in cabinet are backing down, tails between their legs. EU will entertain proposal to give May further support, reject it and keep leading her down the softest road possible. Brexit is dying. At least when this fails we can laugh and blame remainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 8 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Seems pretty clear to me. Well done TM I say 1-4 is no different to the superficial pre-ref leave guff, 5 is remain in all but name, 6 is a wishy washy vague nicety, 7 I'm not even sure what that means or how it differs from our current method of lawmaking especially when taken in conjunction with 5, 8 is about the only valid complaint I heard in the run up to the vote so fair enough that she's committed to taking action on it, 9 remains to be seen what kind of an impact that has if any (could go either way tbh), 10 good luck with that, 11 you would hope is obviously going to be the case because of mutual interest whatever happens, 12 is again vague and meaningless (have we ever been forced into defence actions by the EU, did they drag us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc.?). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: 1-4 is no different to the superficial pre-ref leave guff, 5 is remain in all but name, 6 is a wishy washy vague nicety, 7 I'm not even sure what that means or how it differs from our current method of lawmaking especially when taken in conjunction with 5, 8 is about the only valid complaint I heard in the run up to the vote so fair enough that she's committed to taking action on it, 9 remains to be seen what kind of an impact that has if any (could go either way tbh), 10 good luck with that, 11 you would hope is obviously going to be the case because of mutual interest whatever happens, 12 is again vague and meaningless (have we ever been forced into defence actions by the EU, did they drag us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc.?). That may all be true. I'm not that bothered either way tbh. Just think TM deserves a bit of credit for getting 26 ego's into a room and getting them all aligned in 12 hours without any resignations or major fall outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 5 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: That may all be true. I'm not that bothered either way tbh. Just think TM deserves a bit of credit for getting 26 ego's into a room and getting them all aligned in 12 hours without any resignations or major fall outs. Fair enough I'll give you that it's an act of leadership erstwhile thought beyond her but to me it's still just promises and no plan on how to enact those promises (ie. the leave campaign), is it really a tangible step forwards or just a bargaining chip to take to the EU so we can claim we're all on the same page now so you'd better be more forthcoming in negotiations? Safe to say I'm still firmly and cynically in the 'wait and see what comes of this' camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 6 July 2018 Share Posted 6 July 2018 4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Fair enough I'll give you that it's an act of leadership erstwhile thought beyond her but to me it's still just promises and no plan on how to enact those promises (ie. the leave campaign), is it really a tangible step forwards or just a bargaining chip to take to the EU so we can claim we're all on the same page now so you'd better be more forthcoming in negotiations? Safe to say I'm still firmly and cynically in the 'wait and see what comes of this' camp. Fair enough Carl. I'm in the 'It'll be what it will be and there's fvck all I can do about it so I'll just get on with my life regardless' camp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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