Guest MattP Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 Let's see these eight then Chris Williamson an absolute shoo in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Corbyn really does have a lot to answer for. Absolutely fantastic that this debate in the Labour Party has created debate outside it about the racist founding of Israel and the persecution of the Palestinian people. Well done to all involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claridge Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Absolutely fantastic that this debate in the Labour Party has created debate outside it about the racist founding of Israel and the persecution of the Palestinian people. Well done to all involved. True, wish people would bring up the disgusting behaviour of the Arabs towards Israel and their use of the Palestinian issue for their own ends. Edited 5 September 2018 by Claridge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 2 hours ago, leicsmac said: As the question wasn't answered a little ways back, mind if I repeat it? There are far worse things he could have said, and letterboxes and bank robbers have been used by many other people in the public eye which hasn't caused an outrage, most often on comedy shows. I think he knew exactly what the reaction would be; the only thing that mattered was that everyone was talking about Boris and not the article or its contents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said: So he "literally" said it.... Almost. I rest my case. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Absolutely fantastic that this debate in the Labour Party has created debate outside it about the racist founding of Israel and the persecution of the Palestinian people. Well done to all involved. And it will achieve what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 Also, as I'm piling on to Corbyn, I'll add my congratulations to him and his inner circle on their response at the time of the Salisbury Novichok poisoning. Bare in mind that this is a possible future PM who had access to privy council information from the security services, but instead chose not to believe it and instead throw doubt on it. He really is the left wing Trump equivalent with a similar approach to our own country's security services as the US president's approach to the FBI. I think it has been shown up for how poor it was today with the detail provided by our security services today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 58 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: And it will achieve what exactly? If it educates one person on the racist foundation of Israel and the Nakba its a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 6 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: If it educates one person on the racist foundation of Israel and the Nakba its a good thing. I disagree with your assertion that the foundation is one based on racism, but parking that to one side, I'm not sure how Corbyn promoting a conversation about Middle Eastern history is serving its voters in holding the government to account at what is one of the most important times in our country's history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 I'm just so glad British politics is now a proxy war for a middle eastern conflict. It's just what we need at this quiet time with nothing else that might effect us to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 5 September 2018 Share Posted 5 September 2018 4 hours ago, breadandcheese said: Also, as I'm piling on to Corbyn, I'll add my congratulations to him and his inner circle on their response at the time of the Salisbury Novichok poisoning. Bare in mind that this is a possible future PM who had access to privy council information from the security services, but instead chose not to believe it and instead throw doubt on it. He really is the left wing Trump equivalent with a similar approach to our own country's security services as the US president's approach to the FBI. I think it has been shown up for how poor it was today with the detail provided by our security services today. I'm certainly not going to try to defend all of Corbyn's (or any other politician's!) actions, but was the detail provided by our security services today also provided at the time Corbyn expressed his doubts? And, of course, we still don't know what would come out if this were to go to trial, which is unlikely, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post urban.spaceman Posted 5 September 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 5 September 2018 Am I seriously the only one who is baffled by the obsession with Israel and Palestine? It's bad enough that neither side seems particularly interested in actually achieving peace, everyone else in the world seems more concerned with picking a side rather than actually trying to sort out a centuries-old petty squabble over who gets to live on a fairly insignificant and **** ugly piece of land. They should either sort it out or both **** off cos I'm sick of ****ing hearing about it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: There are far worse things he could have said, and letterboxes and bank robbers have been used by many other people in the public eye which hasn't caused an outrage, most often on comedy shows. I think he knew exactly what the reaction would be; the only thing that mattered was that everyone was talking about Boris and not the article or its contents. No disagreement there, it is all about him, after all. I do still wonder if this was an elaborate attempt to test his favour with the harder right though because if he goes for leadership he's going to need all the allies he can get. 35 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Am I seriously the only one who is baffled by the obsession with Israel and Palestine? It's bad enough that neither side seems particularly interested in actually achieving peace, everyone else in the world seems more concerned with picking a side rather than actually trying to sort out a centuries-old petty squabble over who gets to live on a fairly insignificant and **** ugly piece of land. They should either sort it out or both **** off cos I'm sick of ****ing hearing about it. Yep. And all began by words written in books more than a thousand years ago. I mean, how stupid is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salisbury Fox Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, inckley fox said: I'm certainly not going to try to defend all of Corbyn's (or any other politician's!) actions, but was the detail provided by our security services today also provided at the time Corbyn expressed his doubts? And, of course, we still don't know what would come out if this were to go to trial, which is unlikely, sadly. Of course they didn't name people back then but it was determined very quickly that Novichok could only be produced by a state actor and given the target it was pretty obvious who was involved. I would therefore say that Corbyn picked a side based upon his internal bias which is one of his many weaknesses. I mean the man was suggesting giving samples to Russia FFS giving them an opportunity to further develop their own narrative. I would add that there would have been other intelligence available at the time pointing the finger at Russia but Corbyn just loves a conspiracy theory. Edited 6 September 2018 by Salisbury Fox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Am I seriously the only one who is baffled by the obsession with Israel and Palestine? It's bad enough that neither side seems particularly interested in actually achieving peace, everyone else in the world seems more concerned with picking a side rather than actually trying to sort out a centuries-old petty squabble over who gets to live on a fairly insignificant and **** ugly piece of land. They should either sort it out or both **** off cos I'm sick of ****ing hearing about it. Hear hear. I haven't said a word about any of this bull. In all honesty, on a list of things that's going to sway my decision to vote, a party's stance on Israel and Palestine is roughly number 3,754,842 on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life and his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. I doubt many will agree so time for another break from FT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rincewind said: There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life and his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. I doubt many will agree so time for another break from FT. The only thing you've written there with any sense, logic or truth behind it is your last sentence. Edited 6 September 2018 by breadandcheese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 No Friends of Israel groups? Corbyn has not campaigned for peace? Don't believe all what the MSM says. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 28 minutes ago, Rincewind said: There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life and his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. I doubt many will agree so time for another break from FT. How on earth anyone can still write this and believe it is beyond me. You may as well throw in the Facebook post that claims he won the Nobel peace prize as well. Anyway I'm off to lay a wreath at the killers of some Israeli athletes and then going to sit with some holocaust deniers and compare Zionists to the Nazis, I'm doing it for peace. If only one side stopped everything would be fine. If you see me there it's a smear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 10 minutes ago, Rincewind said: No Friends of Israel groups? Corbyn has not campaigned for peace? Don't believe all what the MSM says. Who has he met on the Israeli side whilst campaigning for peace Ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 37 minutes ago, Rincewind said: There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life and his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. I doubt many will agree so time for another break from FT. Ok, I'm going to dissect your post point by point as I can't believe people still believe this rubbish on Corbyn. There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. - Number of issues here. Firstly a clarification is needed on this as to what you mean by "their government". Are you referring to UK government or Israeli government and who do you mean by people supporting Israel? More to the point, why does it stand to reason in your argument? There is no direct link there. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life - No he hasn't. He has been an anti-Western campaigner all his life. An anti-imperialist campaigner all his life. These do not automatically equate to a peace campaigner. his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people - Clearly he has a gripe with this, as most people do if there are war crimes being committed. However, Corbyn's main gripe with Israel is its formation and doesn't believe it should exist as a Jewish state. This goes far beyond what you've written. He talks of a two state solution, but insists upon a hardline stance on the right of return of Palestinian refugees that should Israel accept, would bring about its destruction as a Jewish democratic state within a generation. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. - So when British Jews, who were born here, work here, pay tax here, vote here, have as much influence on Israeli policy as you Ken, say there is antisemitism within the Labour party, it's all a smear and there's no genuine concerns? They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. - British Jews are British. Their paycheck at the end of the month is from their employer, not the state of Israel. So I don't think they're afraid of Corbyn cutting off non-existent income from Israel. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. - Laughable. Corbyn has done nothing to advance peace. He's met terrorists who have killed more Israelis than he's ever met. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rincewind said: There are a lot of rich and powerful people supporting israel so it stands to reason that anything said against their Government. Corbyn has been a peace campaigner all his life and his gripe is with the Israili Government bombing the shit out of the Palestine people. All the smears have nothing to do with antisemitism but more to do with money and the personanel interests. They are afraid that if Corbyn is in power he will cut off links with Israel and their income. Corbyn is one of the few who is trying to bring peace in the region. I doubt many will agree so time for another break from FT. G'won Rincy. Anti colonialism is a position any leftist naturally comes to in their politics. If you are against the extraction of wealth from your own working class its easy to come to the same conclusion for another peoples working class. That's why the colonisation of Palestine is an anathema on the left. Edited 6 September 2018 by Sharpe's Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboFox Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 6 September 2018 Share Posted 6 September 2018 "Democracy roadshow" - This is actually happening, you may as well just hang "deselect Chukka" on the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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