Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[lifted*fox]

57 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Nick Clegg joins Facebook as their VP for Global Affairs & Comms 

 

slightly ironic that pro-remain Clegg joins Facebook, the very platform Vote Leave used to cheap and manipulate the Brexit referendum. 

 

money, money, money. ffs. 

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

slightly ironic that pro-remain Clegg joins Facebook, the very platform Vote Leave used to cheap and manipulate the Brexit referendum. 

 

money, money, money. ffs. 

I'd imagine the whole idea of it from Facebook is for him to be lobbying the EU while he's in his job.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

British politics is going barmy.

 

 

Full solidarity with Bobby Gillespie for his reaction to that.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Full solidarity with Bobby Gillespie for his reaction to that.

He was totally out of it I think from his comments, which was clearly for the best.

[lifted*fox]

put all these dancing cvnts in a rocket and fire it into the sun. 

 

stick TM in there as well. ****ing about dancing onto stage like a giraffe on ket whilst she's ****ing our country up. 

[RoboFox]

1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Nick Clegg joins Facebook as their VP for Global Affairs & Comms 

 

They were both cool back in 2010.

[Strokes]

51 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

put all these dancing cvnts in a rocket and fire it into the sun. 

 

stick TM in there as well. ****ing about dancing onto stage like a giraffe on ket whilst she's ****ing our country up. 

That doesn’t sound very environmentally friendly mate.

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Full solidarity with Bobby Gillespie for his reaction to that.

Bobby Gillespie (Me)

Everyone dancing (the political class)

[yorkie1999]

So the remainers are gathering in the south and the brexiters are rallying in the north with the kings in Brussels overseeing the sheriffs in the provinces. Has Europe really changed over the last 1000 years.

Edited 20 October 2018 by yorkie1999

[lifted*fox]

700,000+ decent people march for democracy in London.

 

 

Meanwhile, LOL. 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

10 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

700,000+ decent people march for democracy in London.

 

Organisers said it was 670,000 and you can be sure that's a big exaggeration.

 

Marching for democracy as well - I'm sure they would be doing this had Remain won.......

 

A second referendum is absolutely fine providing the result of the first is implemented. 

[Sampson]

On 19/10/2018 at 16:05, MattP said:

He was totally out of it I think from his comments, which was clearly for the best.

Yeah Gillespie was a bit of a car crash in the actual show though. Clearly never discussed politics for about 19 seconds in his entire life before.

Edited 21 October 2018 by Sampson

[Guest MattP]

 

[SMX11]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Even Delia Smith can't string a sentence together! All about feelings and virtue signalling. I think these mass demonstrations consist mostly of empty vessels. 

[The Guvnor]

WTF.

Well what do I say I have nothing to say. Well done Delia, that helped.

[lifted*fox]

first referendum was a non-binding advisory vote. 

 

as I've said many times before - leavers 'won' nothing. they simply showed that there was a 52% desire at the time (52% if you discount the cheating, illegally-funded highly-targeted false information advertising) to leave the EU. 

 

there is nothing democratic about the first vote with it's mass interference. 

 

a people's vote is not a 'second referendum' it's a vote on the possible implementation methods needed to carry out the first result. 

 

but this is what the 'winners' don't get - it's a continuation of democracy and a further way for the people to choose their future. 

 

crying 'BUT OUT DEMOCRACY IS UNDER THREAT' is the single most pathetic thing I've ever seen. 

 

two years down the line and all this government has shown is that there is no way to leave the EU currently that doesn't massively damage our economy and reduce our ability to live / move and work in 27 other countries.

 

the only leavers that remain now are those that they are willing to jump off a cliff edge with a blindfold on because they are that desperate to say they 'won' something.

 

it's not about progress, it's not about a better future for the UK - it's about 'winning' - hence the 'you lost, get over it' rhetoric we see all the time.

 

damage limitation - willing to **** shit up because it's easier to do than swallowing your pride and admitting you that you were deceived and lied to. I understand - it's not easy to admit you've been duped but there we go... 

 

the above about sums it up tbh. 'losers' vote' - smfh. 

[bovril]

41 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Sorry, but you can't complain that leavers are stereotyped as knuckle dragging racists (which I agree is unfair) but then find videos on social media to support your own stereotyping. It's hypocritical. We all need to get over it. 

The whole thing is a mess. The two camps are getting further and further apart. Remain think leave voters are all little-England, xenophobic, football fan, Mail-reading tossers in the provinces and leave think remain voters are elitist, quinoa-eating, Guardian reading cry-baby snowflakes. Both sides seem more interested in punishing the other than actually making any progress.

Meanwhile there is the very real chance that the country could break up and the crazies come back in Northern Ireland. We have people using terminology like "enemies of the people" and "quislings" as if it's 1920s Russia, police bracing themselves for an increase in hate crime and the government stockpiling food. And for what? "Taking back control"? What a fvck up. Completely pissed off about the whole thing. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Sorry, but you can't complain that leavers are stereotyped as knuckle dragging racists (which I agree is unfair) but then find videos on social media to support your own stereotyping. It's hypocritical. We all need to get over it. 

The whole thing is a mess. The two camps are getting further and further apart. Remain think leave voters are all little-England, xenophobic, football fan, Mail-reading tossers in the provinces and leave think remain voters are elitist, quinoa-eating, Guardian reading cry-baby snowflakes. Both sides seem more interested in punishing the other than actually making any progress.

Meanwhile there is the very real chance that the country could break up and the crazies come back in Northern Ireland. We have people using terminology like "enemies of the people" and "quislings" as if it's 1920s Russia, police bracing themselves for an increase in hate crime and the government stockpiling food. And for what? "Taking back control"? What a fvck up. Completely pissed off about the whole thing. 

Yup.

 

And all the time, stuff that needs a unified response, in the UK and out in the wider world, isn't getting addressed.

[Guest MattP]

22 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

first referendum was a non-binding advisory vote. 

 

as I've said many times before - leavers 'won' nothing. they simply showed that there was a 52% desire at the time (52% if you discount the cheating, illegally-funded highly-targeted false information advertising) to leave the EU. 

 

there is nothing democratic about the first vote with it's mass interference. 

 

a people's vote is not a 'second referendum' it's a vote on the possible implementation methods needed to carry out the first result. 

 

but this is what the 'winners' don't get - it's a continuation of democracy and a further way for the people to choose their future. 

The government said it would implement the result of the vote and it has a duty to do that.

 

Remain spent more than Leave, moaning about alleged overspending for leave is ludicrous when the government spent 9 million just before purdah on a remain leaflet sent to every household in the country.

 

But anyway, hypothetically....

 

Why would a peoples vote be binding?

 

What would the question be? 

 

If democracy is this important because people may have changed their mind how often do we have a referendum on membership? 

 

Why would any leave voter trust you to accept the result of the second one?

Edited 21 October 2018 by MattP

[lifted*fox]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

And for what? "Taking back control"? What a fvck up.

 

It really is a **** up - because as Femi elaborates below, there currently is NO brexit scenario where we 'take back control'.

 

 

The remainers in this thread will do what they can to discount and laugh at the 700,000 / 670,000 - however many thousands of people marched the streets yesterday - but they really have no right to. 

 

Deep down they know that Brexit is a shambolic mess that doesn't deliver what they want either. As I've stated before - pushing on with it anyway is damage limitation, a pride thing. If Brexit goes ahead and it's a total ****-up they will still be able to say 'well I backed it fully - it was those pesky 'remoaners' not getting on-board that cost us a good deal' which just isn't true. The government has had two years to get a 'good deal' and they can't because every possible scenario means they can't have their cake and eat it. 

 

The only deal available is a no-deal and nobody voted to be economically poorer with less control. Only the staunchest of leavers want a no-deal now and that's because 'WE WON MATE GET OVER IT'. 

 

pathetic, get in the ****ing bin. your politicians lied to you, they've had your pants down and then they've ran for the hills. 

[Guest MattP]

9 minutes ago, bovril said:

Sorry, but you can't complain that leavers are stereotyped as knuckle dragging racists (which I agree is unfair) but then find videos on social media to support your own stereotyping. It's hypocritical. We all need to get over it. 

The whole thing is a mess. The two camps are getting further and further apart. Remain think leave voters are all little-England, xenophobic, football fan, Mail-reading tossers in the provinces and leave think remain voters are elitist, quinoa-eating, Guardian reading cry-baby snowflakes. Both sides seem more interested in punishing the other than actually making any progress.

Meanwhile there is the very real chance that the country could break up and the crazies come back in Northern Ireland. We have people using terminology like "enemies of the people" and "quislings" as if it's 1920s Russia, police bracing themselves for an increase in hate crime and the government stockpiling food. And for what? "Taking back control"? What a fvck up. Completely pissed off about the whole thing. 

To be fair there is some truth in the stereotypes

 

Leave events are often a mixture of shire Tories, old people and football fans from my experience and when you tune into a Remain event or march it looks like the longest Waitrose queue in history with a few nutters thrown in who seem to protest for a living.

 

I didn't like the use of the term traitors or quislings but for a small minority its hard to think of anything else - I mean the article by Clegg and Mandelson in the German paper urging the EU to be tough on us is treacherous. They are quislings to do that to their own nation. 

[Webbo]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

Sorry, but you can't complain that leavers are stereotyped as knuckle dragging racists (which I agree is unfair) but then find videos on social media to support your own stereotyping. It's hypocritical. We all need to get over it. 

The whole thing is a mess. The two camps are getting further and further apart. Remain think leave voters are all little-England, xenophobic, football fan, Mail-reading tossers in the provinces and leave think remain voters are elitist, quinoa-eating, Guardian reading cry-baby snowflakes. Both sides seem more interested in punishing the other than actually making any progress.

Meanwhile there is the very real chance that the country could break up and the crazies come back in Northern Ireland. We have people using terminology like "enemies of the people" and "quislings" as if it's 1920s Russia, police bracing themselves for an increase in hate crime and the government stockpiling food. And for what? "Taking back control"? What a fvck up. Completely pissed off about the whole thing. 

Let's be fair. Leave voters had every right to expect that the result of the referendum would be respected. If that had happened none of this division would exist.

 

the same people who have spent 2 years telling us we're too thick to understand the issues and should be ignored are now saying they want our voices to be heard. It's a transparent device to reverse a democratic decision and it's no wonder  people are angry.

[lifted*fox]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yup.

 

And all the time, stuff that needs a unified response, in the UK and out in the wider world, isn't getting addressed.

 

years upon years upon years of taking up all parliamentary time and effort to remove us from something that benefits us all when we should be working together against threats such as Russia, climate change, etc. the money already spent on Brexit, the campaigns, the meetings, the marketing - imagine how that time / money could have already helped our struggling services. 

 

as I've said before - this will go down in the history of the world as being one of the biggest swindles of our time, people will look back upon this period in total disbelief that so many people can be tricked into throwing themselves onto the fire by dishonest criminal spiv politicians. people will read the history, open-mouthed at how people blindly followed liars and cheats into the abyss.

 

people who initially fell into the trap will be forgiven but whose who continue to push it all the way - the Gove, JRM crowd and their followers will not be looked back upon kindly by history. They will be looked back upon with disdain and utter confusion. 

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

The only deal available is a no-deal and nobody voted to be economically poorer with less control.

Sorry but this just isn't true. Tusk has consistently reiterated that Norway and Canada style deals are both on the table.

 

Parliamentary arithmetic is always going to be tricky but let's not forget the house has ALREADY voted to leave the single market and the customs union.

 

End of the day she's got to stare down the ERG, the remain faction or the DUP.

 

That's tough but don't accuse leavers of lies and manipulation and then peddle the myth no deal is the only deal avaliable.

[bovril]

23 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Let's be fair. Leave voters had every right to expect that the result of the referendum would be respected. If that had happened none of this division would exist.

 

Pie in the sky. Those divisions were always there. If anything at least Brexit has allowed us to see them. 

 

I work in a city during the week and go back to the shires at the weekend. People are so far apart it's unbelievable. Both sides completely mistrust and honestly seem to despise the other. It doesn't even seem to be about the EU anymore, just about punishing those whom people believe have wronged them. 

 

Edited 21 October 2018 by bovril