Poll - Stadium expansion after 3 seasons in top flight

[DatfoxesKid23]

I will always attend regardless of which league we are in. it would take something major to make me not attend

Edited 13 August 2017 by DatfoxesKid23

[Gerard]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

The fact we ended up in the relegation zone 3/4 of the way into the season says we aren't yet. You need several years of comfortable mid table finishes to be "established" IMO.

 

A club like ours will probably never be "established".

 

We won a title and got to the QF of the Champions League and we're still not established.

 

I'd like us to increase our base level though by encouraging our support to get bigger and to do that we need a bigger stadium.

[fleckneymike]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

Compete financially.

 

Just because we've won a PL title and two League Cups since any of those clubs won anything doesn't mean we'll be the most likely to win something next.

 

Money comes and goes mainly on wages and transfer fees. Clubs usually live close to the edge whatever their income. It would be a horrible shame for us to never try to progress and eventually get relegated in several years time and then watch a Forest or Derby get in our position and build their grounds to 40,000+ and dominate East Midlands football whilst we rue what might have been. We'd be thinking if only we were ambitious and not just happy to make up the numbers as little old Leicester with our packed out 32,000 ground.

 

Relegation for us is inevitable, it's a case of when not if. I want the club to build a legacy and expand the support so we're far better equipped to come back next time. Lets not accept we're no better than West Brom, Stoke, etc.

Everton last won something in 1995!

 

Newcastle in 1969 ffs. 

 

West Ham in 1980. 

 

We've won 2 league cups and a Premiership. Why on earth do I want to compete with them? What on earth have they done which is in anyway aspirational?

 

By all means expand the stadium but let's not kid ourselves that it'll make us more 'competitive'. 

[Ted Maul]

6 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

Everton last won something in 1995!

 

Newcastle in 1969 ffs. 

 

West Ham in 1980. 

 

We've won 2 league cups and a Premiership. Why on earth do I want to compete with them? What on earth have they done which is in anyway aspirational?

 

By all means expand the stadium but let's not kid ourselves that it'll make us more 'competitive'. 

In terms of silverware, we're an anomaly- not the rule.

 

Those 3 clubs have spent a lot more time in the top flight than we have, and getting to/staying in the top flight has always been our primary objective. 

[crisp packet]

Needs extending asap?

250k in the city for title parade.

regularly sell out at home ( 4/5 years) 

Grass roots, families and clubs etc all missing out at minute.

40k plus to all our Wembley finals.

 

Were massive now!

 

"If u build it ,they will come"

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, fleckneymike said:

Everton last won something in 1995!

 

Newcastle in 1969 ffs. 

 

West Ham in 1980. 

 

We've won 2 league cups and a Premiership. Why on earth do I want to compete with them? What on earth have they done which is in anyway aspirational?

 

By all means expand the stadium but let's not kid ourselves that it'll make us more 'competitive'. 

He's not talking in terms of competing for silverware, that's quite clear. In fact he's literally just explained what he means.

 

For all those trophies, we're still seen as the smallest club out of the group. Expanding the stadium, should first and foremost only be done to satisfy demand. But there is nothing wrong without also taking into account the other benefits of it. The extra money, which whilst not huge in terms of premier league money now. It can still pay the wages of a couple of players that others can't. That in turn (if you're run correctly) should give you the edge in terms of where you finish. The league usually goes in order of who spends the most on wages, barring the odd freak at either end.

 

It also makes you look like an ambitious club, a project people want to be on board with. When you're competing with that group of clubs in the 25-30k attendance bracket for players, taking us out of that group should give you an advantage in terms of appeal.

 

The next step on the club size ladder is the Villas, Evertons, Newcastle of the world. Yes, we've performed better in terms of silverware, but it doesn't get away from the fact they are bigger. They've all been criminally mismanaged over the years, but they've all spent far longer in the premier league that we have. If we can get ourselves into that bracket of club, it's a huge step forward.

[HighPeakFox]

I couldn't give a toss whether x club or ours is 'bigger' - it is a totally nebulous argument.

 

Build a bigger ground, more opportunities for more people to see our team, a chance to win new long term fans, a potential gateway to attracting better players.

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I couldn't give a toss whether x club or ours is 'bigger' - it is a totally nebulous argument.

 

Build a bigger ground, more opportunities for more people to see our team, a chance to win new long term fans, a potential gateway to attracting better players.

So you don't care about whether x club is bigger, but you're happy to reap the benefits of others seeing us as bigger?

 

Nobody wants to be bigger just so we can gloat about being bigger. We want to be bigger as it should give you a better chance of long term success*.

 

*IF you are managed correctly from top to bottom.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

So you don't care about whether x club is bigger, but you're happy to reap the benefits of others seeing us as bigger?

 

Nobody wants to be bigger just so we can gloat about being bigger. We want to be bigger as it should give you a better chance of long term success*.

 

*IF you are managed correctly from top to bottom.

I don't care for the pointless argument, it's not difficult to comprehend.

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't care for the pointless argument, it's not difficult to comprehend.

You've just pointed out the benefits to being a bigger club in your argument, so surely you do in a way? I don't particularly care if we're as big or bigger than Newcastle, but I want us to be the best and the biggest we can be.

[HighPeakFox]

13 minutes ago, Babylon said:

 I want us to be the best and the biggest we can be.

There you go, you get it - that's all I want too, the rest is for the birds.

[hackneyfox]

11 hours ago, DatfoxesKid23 said:

I will always attend regardless of which league we are in. it would take something major to make me not attend

How old are you now?

I used to attend with a fair number of people who went every week and had done for a few seasons, then families etc arrive and suddenly LCFC are no longer the most important thing in their lives.

[DatfoxesKid23]

5 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

How old are you now?

I used to attend with a fair number of people who went every week and had done for a few seasons, then families etc arrive and suddenly LCFC are no longer the most important thing in their lives.

well I'm currently 24 and I have been going to watch matches since I was 8 years old so 2001 I went with my cousins and my dad and I still do 

[deep blue]

16 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

How old are you now?

I used to attend with a fair number of people who went every week and had done for a few seasons, then families etc arrive and suddenly LCFC are no longer the most important thing in their lives.

Whether they drop out for a while when kids come along, or not, they will often come back to it and bring their kids along to the matches - new fans for our future - but only if the ground is big enough for them to get tickets.

[Guest Bilo]

Of course we could get relegated in the years to come, but I'd say 12 of the 20 clubs in the PL and perhaps more are one poor managerial appointment, a disappointing transfer window, injury crisis or other mishap away from falling into the Championship themselves. Nobody is suggesting we build a new Emirates for ourselves, just that we make a fairly sensible and modest extension to the stadium to cope with the demand that patently already exists when you hear of the numbers who can't get tickets.

 

 

[fleckneymike]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

He's not talking in terms of competing for silverware, that's quite clear. In fact he's literally just explained what he means.

 

For all those trophies, we're still seen as the smallest club out of the group. Expanding the stadium, should first and foremost only be done to satisfy demand. But there is nothing wrong without also taking into account the other benefits of it. The extra money, which whilst not huge in terms of premier league money now. It can still pay the wages of a couple of players that others can't. That in turn (if you're run correctly) should give you the edge in terms of where you finish. The league usually goes in order of who spends the most on wages, barring the odd freak at either end.

 

It also makes you look like an ambitious club, a project people want to be on board with. When you're competing with that group of clubs in the 25-30k attendance bracket for players, taking us out of that group should give you an advantage in terms of appeal.

 

The next step on the club size ladder is the Villas, Evertons, Newcastle of the world. Yes, we've performed better in terms of silverware, but it doesn't get away from the fact they are bigger. They've all been criminally mismanaged over the years, but they've all spent far longer in the premier league that we have. If we can get ourselves into that bracket of club, it's a huge step forward.

If it's not about competing for silverware then what are we bothering doing playing football? What is our ambition?

 

Why is it a huge step forward to join a group of teams who have been less successful than us?

[Babylon]

Just now, fleckneymike said:

If it's not about competing for silverware then what are we bothering doing playing football? What is our ambition?

 

Why is it a huge step forward to join a group of teams who have been less successful than us?

If you aren't going to read, then it's pointless in having this conversation. It's not about silverware because that's not what he was discussing, his first two words were literally "compete financially". The end goal is two things, stability in the top flight and winning things.

 

We are the exception and not the rule when it comes to trophies, they are usually won by the biggest teams with the most money. Expanding the stadium takes you to another level financially and another level in terms of appeal for players, that's what's being discussed.

 

Why is it a huge step forward? Because as said it gives you a competitive advantage IF used correctly. Those teams haven't used that to their advantage. If we carry on getting the most out of our resources as we have done since Pearson came back in, then using that advantage well could cement us as a top 8 team for a long time.   

[fleckneymike]

41 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If you aren't going to read, then it's pointless in having this conversation. It's not about silverware because that's not what he was discussing, his first two words were literally "compete financially". The end goal is two things, stability in the top flight and winning things.

 

We are the exception and not the rule when it comes to trophies, they are usually won by the biggest teams with the most money. Expanding the stadium takes you to another level financially and another level in terms of appeal for players, that's what's being discussed.

 

Why is it a huge step forward? Because as said it gives you a competitive advantage IF used correctly. Those teams haven't used that to their advantage. If we carry on getting the most out of our resources as we have done since Pearson came back in, then using that advantage well could cement us as a top 8 team for a long time.   

I have read it and the logic doesn't work. You want us to emulate clubs who haven't won anything in order to win things whilst ignoring our own success in winning things. 

 

The 'average' finishing position over the life of the premiership is as follows for the top 8

 

Man Utd

arsenal

chelsea

liverpool

Tottenham 

everton

villa

newcastle

 

 

 

 

 

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

I have read it and the logic doesn't work. You want us to emulate clubs who haven't won anything in order to win things whilst ignoring our own success in winning things. 

 

The 'average' finishing position over the life of the premiership is as follows for the top 8

 

Man Utd

arsenal

chelsea

liverpool

Tottenham 

everton

villa

newcastle

Who said we want to emulate them, I've said several times now that a lot of teams in that bracket have been mismanaged. What we want is the extra financial power and appeal that comes with being in that bracket of club.

 

Your list sort of proves the point. All the biggest clubs in the top 8. Everton, Villa, Newcastle 6th, 7th, 8th.... I don't see any Norwich, Stoke, Leicester, Derby, West Brom sized clubs in that list. Which is why it's a good thing to move form that bracket to the next.

[Gerard]

32 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Who said we want to emulate them, I've said several times now that a lot of teams in that bracket have been mismanaged. What we want is the extra financial power and appeal that comes with being in that bracket of club.

 

Your list sort of proves the point. All the biggest clubs in the top 8. Everton, Villa, Newcastle 6th, 7th, 8th.... I don't see any Norwich, Stoke, Leicester, Derby, West Brom sized clubs in that list. Which is why it's a good thing to move form that bracket to the next.

 

That was the point I was going to make that his list doesn't help his argument at all.

 

Our major trophy haul in the last quarter of a century has been phenomenal, we're the 6th highest in the country and only the five biggest clubs in the country have done better than us. Without belittling our achievements we won the league with a team that cost just over £20m and we won a couple of cups which is a bit of a lottery anyway but the point is our trophy haul is off the scale when measured against expectation.

 

A fairer way to judge success is by the mean of league finishes over a substantial time period. His 6th-8th positions in his all time PL list is the type of clubs we should aspire to compete with on a long term basis financially. Everton, Villa and Newcastle are clubs who are bigger than us but we have the potential to be mentioned in that category of clubs.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 August 2017 by Gerard

[fleckneymike]

3 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

That was the point I was going to make that his list doesn't help his argument at all.

 

Our major trophy haul in the last quarter of a century has been phenomenal, we're the 6th highest in the country and only the five biggest clubs in the country have done better than us. Without belittling our achievements we won the league with a team that cost just over £20m and we won a couple of cups which is a bit of a lottery anyway but the point is our trophy haul is off the scale when measured against expectation.

 

A fairer way to judge success is by the mean of league finishes over a substantial time period. His 6th-8th positions in his all time PL list is the type of clubs we should aspire to compete with on a long term basis financially. Everton, Villa and Newcastle are clubs who are bigger than us but we have the potential to be mentioned in that category of clubs.

 

 

 

 

It proves my point entirely. Of that top 8 only three have actually won the bloody league. A 'fair' way to judge success is the traditional method of 'success' which entails winning things. 

 

Of all the Premier League winners Chelsea and Man City won it thanks to a billionaire owner. Blackburn won it thanks to a millionaire owner. United and Arsenal arguably didn't win it due simply to a sudden injection of wealth. 

 

Not one club club won it because of more plastic seats. 

[Fox92]

Brighton is on general sale so this expansion ain't needed then

[Bob Weasel Fox]

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Brighton is on general sale so this expansion ain't needed then

Oh dear oh dear.  

 

Its badly needed bud

[sylofox]

Been told office staff to be relocated to the other side of the river. Building work to start on the west stand within 12months.

 

Yes the west stand.

[jonthefox]

18 minutes ago, sylofox said:

Been told office staff to be relocated to the other side of the river. Building work to start on the west stand within 12months.

 

Yes the west stand.

More boxes and more premium seats. Makes sense financially I suppose.