Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Sampson]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Tbh given the amount that fall by the wayside if their careers don't pan out (and sometimes even if they do) because they've not been able to learn how to function in society as someone else demands it sounds like exploitation to me.

 

A response to this might be "but they can always quit", which is true, but how easy is it for someone who has been devoted to the sport at the behest of others to really do something else with their lives? They'd spend years, perhaps, just catching up.

Yes not too mention that this doesn't just happen as a free choice as adult. It starts with kids as young as 6 years old who have to forego education in other areas to concentrate on playing one game where the overwhelming majority don't even make it.

 

Not labelling its definitely one thing, but there's definitely a lot of stuff involved in the lives of professional sportspeople and children who are potential professional sportspeople we'd consider unethical in other areas of society of a first world liberal democracy.

[LiberalFox]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Tbh given the amount that fall by the wayside if their careers don't pan out (and sometimes even if they do) because they've not been able to learn how to function in society as someone else demands it sounds like exploitation to me.

 

A response to this might be "but they can always quit", which is true, but how easy is it for someone who has been devoted to the sport at the behest of others to really do something else with their lives? They'd spend years, perhaps, just catching up.

You're literally describing so many kids though not just in professional sports. Exploited is too strong a word in my opinion.

Edited 6 August 2021 by LiberalFox

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

You're literally describing so many kids though. Exploited is too strong a word in my opinion.

I think you could add some areas of the arts to this too so it is a wide ranging thing, yes.

 

I don't think the term "exploited" is too strong though tbh, when someone follows a career path so narrow from childhood (with such consequences) for reasons that are not 100% their own, then IMO it's safe to say there's some measure of exploitation of the person going on.

[LiberalFox]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I think you could add some areas of the arts to this too so it is a wide ranging thing, yes.

 

I don't think the term "exploited" is too strong though tbh, when someone follows a career path so narrow from childhood (with such consequences) for reasons that are not 100% their own, then IMO it's safe to say there's some measure of exploitation of the person going on.

When I think of exploited I think of the way places like China "cultivate" children to be top level gymnasts. That feels exploitative because there seems very little concern for individual wellbeing and I don't think that's the case with the liberal nations. Ultimately you only really get one shot to be an elite athlete and that means starting young. Perhaps the bigger issue is erroneously believing our lives are defined by what we learned or didn't learn as children and/or young adults when science suggests there is very little cognitive degradation before age 70.  

[Captain...]

8 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Sorry but no. Pearson absolutely changed us on and off the field and without him we wouldn't be in the PL. Ranieri guided a side that nearly got relegated from the PL to win the PL.... the following season. It's a hell of a lot more than "right people in the right place at the right time" for both of them.

100% agree, but they did that not because they are both amazing managers, they were the right manager in the right place at the right time.

 

It's not meant as a criticism of what they did, just that they couldn't have done it anywhere else with anyone else. Their strengths worked perfectly with what they were required to do at that time. They are both legends in my eyes, but that doesn't mean they are legendary managers on a universal scale.

[Koke]

I'm enjoying our success but I don't understand some of our fans who brag about winning League One and Championship, and say we've won 3 different leagues. We should be embarrassed that League One is even in our Honours list. Even winning the Championship isn't something to brag about 7 years later. If you wanna get one over other clubs like Spurs, don't include League One and Championship as part of your argument. It's small time, and even though I hate this word, it makes us look very tinpot. 

 

Edited 8 August 2021 by Koke

[Jimothy]

3 minutes ago, Koke said:

I'm enjoying our success but I don't understand some of our fans who brag about winning League One and Championship, and say we've won 3 different leagues. We should be embarrassed that League One is even in our Honours list. Even winning the Championship isn't something to brag about 7 years later. If you wanna get one over other clubs like Spurs, don't include League One and Championship as part of your argument. It's small time, and even though I hate this word, it makes us look very tinpot. 

 

I wouldn't use it to make the point we are better than another team, but it certainly a good way of showing how far we've come in short space of time.  And in the example of Spurs, since we got relegated in 2004, we spent a decade out the PL, went down to League 1, won that, won the Championship, won the premier league, won thr fa cup and now the community shield. All that time, they were in the top flight the whole time, and have won a league Cup.

[Claridge]

36 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I wouldn't use it to make the point we are better than another team, but it certainly a good way of showing how far we've come in short space of time.  And in the example of Spurs, since we got relegated in 2004, we spent a decade out the PL, went down to League 1, won that, won the Championship, won the premier league, won thr fa cup and now the community shield. All that time, they were in the top flight the whole time, and have won a league Cup.

Agree with this, 10 yrs ago we would of been pretty un heard of in world football and the the big clubs were probably 10 times more well known than us. Most football fans in the world will have heard of leicester city and players like vardy are world famous.

Big clubs are probably 2 or 3 times our size still, but on on our current path we will easily be the biggest club ever in 5 years

[Alf Bentley]

13 hours ago, Koke said:

I'm enjoying our success but I don't understand some of our fans who brag about winning League One and Championship, and say we've won 3 different leagues. We should be embarrassed that League One is even in our Honours list. Even winning the Championship isn't something to brag about 7 years later. If you wanna get one over other clubs like Spurs, don't include League One and Championship as part of your argument. It's small time, and even though I hate this word, it makes us look very tinpot. 

 

 

I disagree. Suffering hard times is part of the trajectory of life for most people and most football clubs. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Indeed, getting out of the crap and going on to much better things is something to be proud of - and going from 3rd tier to major trophies in 8-13 years is definitely something to reflect on with a warm glow.

 

Should Vardy be embarrassed that he once played for Stocksbridge Park Steels, Halifax and Fleetwood? His pre-LCFC history shows his achievements here in an even better light, surely?

 

It's not as if we're the only biggish club to play in the 3rd tier or lower (getting out as champions at the first time of asking).

 

Got me thinking about how far each of the current PL clubs had fallen during my living memory......

- Top tier only: Arsenal, Everton & Liverpool

- 2nd tier: Chelsea, Man Utd, Newcastle, Norwich, Southampton, Tottenham, West Ham

- 3rd tier: Aston Villa, Palace, Leeds, Leicester, Man City

- 4th tier: Brentford, Brighton, Burnley, Watford, Wolves

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I disagree. Suffering hard times is part of the trajectory of life for most people and most football clubs. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Indeed, getting out of the crap and going on to much better things is something to be proud of - and going from 3rd tier to major trophies in 8-13 years is definitely something to reflect on with a warm glow.

 

Should Vardy be embarrassed that he once played for Stocksbridge Park Steels, Halifax and Fleetwood? His pre-LCFC history shows his achievements here in an even better light, surely?

 

It's not as if we're the only biggish club to play in the 3rd tier or lower (getting out as champions at the first time of asking).

 

Got me thinking about how far each of the current PL clubs had fallen during my living memory......

- Top tier only: Arsenal, Everton & Liverpool

- 2nd tier: Chelsea, Man Utd, Newcastle, Norwich, Southampton, Tottenham, West Ham

- 3rd tier: Aston Villa, Palace, Leeds, Leicester, Man City

- 4th tier: Brentford, Brighton, Burnley, Watford, Wolves

Didn't realise just how unsuccessful Watford were til the 80s. Had they won the league in 83 it'd probably be seen as even more remarkable than our title win.

[Heathrow fox]

13 minutes ago, bovril said:

Didn't realise just how unsuccessful Watford were til the 80s. Had they won the league in 83 it'd probably be seen as even more remarkable than our title win.

Elton John and Graham Taylor did a remarkable job there.

[Alf Bentley]

Just now, Heathrow fox said:

Elton John and Graham Taylor did a remarkable job there.

 

Yes. I was about to say that, by the standards of the times, I suppose they came into some cash with Elton John - in days before international multi-billionaire corporations owned clubs.

 

But, as I recall, at least a couple of their players were there from the 4th to the 1st tier - and I presume players like John Barnes & Luther Blissett were good scouting finds?

Under Taylor, they had a reputation for playing direct football, but played more pleasing football than Wimbledon, who were much more "route one" and over-physical, as I recall (though they didn't had a much smaller fan base and less cash).

[Heathrow fox]

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yes. I was about to say that, by the standards of the times, I suppose they came into some cash with Elton John - in days before international multi-billionaire corporations owned clubs.

 

But, as I recall, at least a couple of their players were there from the 4th to the 1st tier - and I presume players like John Barnes & Luther Blissett were good scouting finds?

Under Taylor, they had a reputation for playing direct football, but played more pleasing football than Wimbledon, who were much more "route one" and over-physical, as I recall (though they didn't had a much smaller fan base and less cash).

I think Blissett was on the books at the start of the promotions.Barnes maybe a little later?Both born in Jamaica and both apprentices.Taylor had a brand of football that just swept everything aside.Loved a winger didn’t he.I watched an interesting doc on Wimbledon the other week.I don’t think I liked them much at the time but was very pleased they beat Liverpool in the FA cup final.

[SemperEadem]

Kasper looked a right dick Saturday when crying about a perfectly fair 50/50 with the attacking player stretching for the ball.

[Jimothy]

@Alf Bentley Norwich and Southampton have both been to the 3rd tier in your lifetime.

[bovril]

3 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

Kasper looked a right dick Saturday when crying about a perfectly fair 50/50 with the attacking player stretching for the ball.

Kasper is a right dick. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion. But he has the Man United air of entitlement to him, which is maybe not a bad thing for a footballer to have.

 

World class keeper though, and up there with Vardy as one our greatest of all time. 

[SemperEadem]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Kasper is a right dick. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion. But he has the Man United air of entitlement to him, which is maybe not a bad thing for a footballer to have.

 

World class keeper though, and up there with Vardy as one our greatest of all time. 

A good few years back now but I know he really rubbed some of the non football staff up the wrong way.

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

A good few years back now but I know he really rubbed some of the non football staff up the wrong way.

Hadn't heard that at all. 

[SemperEadem]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Hadn't heard that at all. 

Yeah stand up rows.

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

@Alf Bentley Norwich and Southampton have both been to the 3rd tier in your lifetime.

 

I did say "during my living memory", not "in my lifetime".......the brief descent of Norwich & Southampton to L1 about 12 years ago clearly escaped my living memory...... 

 

Seriously, I stand corrected.....and a little worried at my short-term memory!

I certainly should have remembered about Saints as Pearson kept them up at our expense on the last day in 2008, then they got rid of him and went down the next year.

 

Liverpool only returned to the top tier the year I was born, too, but age is a reasonable excuse there.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Kasper is a right dick. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion. But he has the Man United air of entitlement to him, which is maybe not a bad thing for a footballer to have.

 

World class keeper though, and up there with Vardy as one our greatest of all time. 

Banks.

Shilton.

Kasper.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On 06/08/2021 at 10:27, Dunge said:

Nigel Pearson: Good manager; legendary architect.

Who the hell is Nigel Pearson?

[Dunge]

1 hour ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

Who the hell is Nigel Pearson?

Ah, you know; some guy.

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, bovril said:

Kasper is a right dick. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion. But he has the Man United air of entitlement to him, which is maybe not a bad thing for a footballer to have.

 

World class keeper though, and up there with Vardy as one our greatest of all time. 

He always comes across as a nice guy who gets very passionate during the game to me.

[RoboFox]

The Forum Support section of FT is easily the most entertaining part of this site. It often gets overlooked.

 

Pure popcorn stuff.

 

Edited 9 August 2021 by RoboFox