Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Jimothy]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

This is the conclusion I come to what it comes to sports of skill rather than pure physical condition, too.

 

I'd posit that if there was an equivalent number of women interested in something like chess with exactly equal amount of opportunity to pursue it, then they would have a roughly equivalent amount of top level players.

 

And sorry, @Facecloth
I'm with you with the stronger and quicker element, but there's nothing IMO to suggest that blokes are *inherently* more accurate at aiming a competitive weapon than a lady is.

Well I would say the scores at previous Olympics and the world records in such events would say that given the same equipment men come out on top. I haven't checked them all, obviously, but the top female archer in Rio would have finished 18th in the men's competition, in 2012, 15th. Same equipment, same target.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Well I would say the scores at previous Olympics and the world records in such events would say that given the same equipment men come out on top. I haven't checked them all, obviously, but the top female archer in Rio would have finished 18th in the men's competition, in 2012, 15th. Same equipment, same target.

The statistics speak for themselves there.

 

However, that's not the only variable at play here, hence my thoughts on the matter.

[Jimothy]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The statistics speak for themselves there.

 

However, that's not the only variable at play here, hence my thoughts on the matter.

Oh I get there's wind etc that can effect scores, but the world record is quite a way behind too, so suggests that men get better scores most the time regardless of conditions. I'll do some proper research into these types of sports when I get time, as its interesting. 

 

I mentioned earlier that women have played on the darts and snooker tours and they haven't made much of an impact, hence why the win at the darts last year was such a big story and that was only round 1.

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Oh I get there's wind etc that can effect scores, but the world record is quite a way behind too, so suggests that men get better scores most the time regardless of conditions. I'll do some proper research into these types of sports when I get time, as its interesting. 

 

I mentioned earlier that women have played on the darts and snooker tours and they haven't made much of an impact, hence why the win at the darts last year was such a big story and that was only round 1.

 

Women perform comparably to men in extreme endurance sports like ultra-running and ultra-hiking.

 

Quite a few FKTs are/have been held by women.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Oh I get there's wind etc that can effect scores, but the world record is quite a way behind too, so suggests that men get better scores most the time regardless of conditions. I'll do some proper research into these types of sports when I get time, as its interesting. 

 

I mentioned earlier that women have played on the darts and snooker tours and they haven't made much of an impact, hence why the win at the darts last year was such a big story and that was only round 1.

I was thinking more about cultural and opportunity issues leading to sizes of talent pool and enthusiasm for the sport as factors as Alf postulated above tbh. Is there any sport of skill with a 50/50 split in terms of talent pool, resources and opportunity where men are still dominant? That's probably difficult to answer though as it's likely no such sport with such a split exists in the first place.

 

It's an interesting debate and it's impossible to be certain either way.

 

[Jimothy]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I was thinking more about cultural and opportunity issues leading to sizes of talent pool and enthusiasm for the sport as factors as Alf postulated above tbh. Is there any sport of skill with a 50/50 split in terms of talent pool, resources and opportunity where men are still dominant? That's probably difficult to answer though as it's likely no such sport with such a split exists in the first place.

 

It's an interesting debate and it's impossible to be certain either way.

 

I think thats always hard to answer for anything as it's an unquantifiable thing. There's possibly a faster man out there than Bolt who's never really got into running. Maybe there's a better footballer than Messi or golfer than Woods or tennis player than Djokovic but they never gave it a go, but we'll never know so we can only look at what we have seen. The only stats we do have is that most man who competes in these sport we've mentioned have scored better and performed better than the women (or certainly where I've looked). Maybe the gap will close as women's sport get more popular and it becomes more accepted that women become professionals sportman, although that's already pretty much widely accepted in most of the top nations, so maybe what we're seeing is the true gap in quality?

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

I think thats always hard to answer for anything as it's an unquantifiable thing. There's possibly a faster man out there than Bolt who's never really got into running. Maybe there's a better footballer than Messi or golfer than Woods or tennis player than Djokovic but they never gave it a go, but we'll never know so we can only look at what we have seen. The only stats we do have is that most man who competes in these sport we've mentioned have scored better and performed better than the women (or certainly where I've looked). Maybe the gap will close as women's sport get more popular and it becomes more accepted that women become professionals sportman, although that's already pretty much widely accepted in most of the top nations, so maybe what we're seeing is the true gap in quality?

It is (practically) unquantifiable, yeah, so it's very difficult to be definitive about it.

 

I think there's a way to go yet before women are competing in the same capacity with the same resources in such sports of skill even in the top nations - if indeed it ever happens - so IMO the gap in quality will always be questionable until then.

[Milo]

14 hours ago, tom27111 said:

 

Good point. 

 

Away from the Olympics, no reason why any form of Motorsport couldn't be the same either.

 

I know women have previously competed at various levels.

 

Horse racing too.

 

To be honest, in some circumstances, maybe golf?

 

Some of the guys drive it a mile, but it's not just about that. Some of the ladies will be able to hit it as far as some men. Then what can you do on the green?

 

I'd imagine some ladies can hit the ball off the tee as far as someone like Luke Donald or Paul Casey nowadays?

 

They've both challenged in the last few years.

 

Edit...snooker 

I think there would be a problem if women were allowed to compete in, say, a men’s golf tournament. 
 

If I were a lowish ranking male pro golfer, I’d spout equality and enter all the women’s golf tournaments that I could, in the knowledge that I’m more likely to win them than I am the men’s. 
 

Same for tennis. 
 

For info, there was an article on Women’s Hour this morning about the lack of south Asian women represented in sport. 

[Jimothy]

37 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It is (practically) unquantifiable, yeah, so it's very difficult to be definitive about it.

 

I think there's a way to go yet before women are competing in the same capacity with the same resources in such sports of skill even in the top nations - if indeed it ever happens - so IMO the gap in quality will always be questionable until then.

Really? I know some women's sports have less resources, such as football etc, but what proof do we have that say the Korean women don't get the backing the Korean men get in the archery? I've just seen a guy shoot 119 out of 120 to win gold. What extra has he received over the women that stops them reaching that level? As far as I can see they use the same equipment and the same targets and I see no reason why they wouldn't be using the same training facilities.

[Alf Bentley]

36 minutes ago, Milo said:

 

For info, there was an article on Women’s Hour this morning about the lack of south Asian women represented in sport. 

 

That's an interesting one. What conclusions did they reach?

 

I just wondered as women of South Asian descent have made major breakthroughs in other areas of British life - lots of news journalists on BBC & C4, a number of MPs for both main parties etc.

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Really? I know some women's sports have less resources, such as football etc, but what proof do we have that say the Korean women don't get the backing the Korean men get in the archery? I've just seen a guy shoot 119 out of 120 to win gold. What extra has he received over the women that stops them reaching that level? As far as I can see they use the same equipment and the same targets and I see no reason why they wouldn't be using the same training facilities.

In order for a truly definitive answer the equality of resources and talent pool would have to be across multiple top nations, not just Korea.

 

Perhaps I'm being a stick-in-the-mud here but I still think I need more proof before I'd believe that men have an inherent advantage in such areas of more cerebral skill than of strength and speed (which are more physiologically provable).

 

Interestingly enough, I just found something regarding archery that suggests that strength is indeed something of a factor at the present time and that without that being a thing women might close the gap:

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-men-and-women-compete-against-each-other-in-Olympic-archery

[leicsmac]

And with shooting:

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0216390

 

"We concluded that sports in which physical strength is a minor factor, as in the case of shooting, should revise their regulations in the interest of greater gender equality in sports."

[Jimothy]

21 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

In order for a truly definitive answer the equality of resources and talent pool would have to be across multiple top nations, not just Korea.

 

Perhaps I'm being a stick-in-the-mud here but I still think I need more proof before I'd believe that men have an inherent advantage in such areas of more cerebral skill than of strength and speed (which are more physiologically provable).

 

Interestingly enough, I just found something regarding archery that suggests that strength is indeed something of a factor at the present time and that without that being a thing women might close the gap:

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-men-and-women-compete-against-each-other-in-Olympic-archery

 

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And with shooting:

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0216390

 

"We concluded that sports in which physical strength is a minor factor, as in the case of shooting, should revise their regulations in the interest of greater gender equality in sports."

So in the end, these aren't sports that men and women can currently compete as there is still a physical advantage to men.

 

Only sports I can think of that can be truly level is darts and snooker or sports that involve driving or riding. But even then women struggle make an impact in motor sport and the previously mention darts and snooker even when given the chance. That may be down societal views prevent many taking it up, but again people not taking up sports male or female may be preventing us from see talents of either sex, so I'm not sure it can be used as a reason, surely there would have been a woman at some point who broke the glass ceiling if it were possible.

[Milo]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That's an interesting one. What conclusions did they reach?

 

I just wondered as women of South Asian descent have made major breakthroughs in other areas of British life - lots of news journalists on BBC & C4, a number of MPs for both main parties etc.

The conclusion was a mixture of patriarchal environment discouraging participation, and (curiously, I thought) lack of access to sporting clubs and activities. 

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Facecloth said:

 

So in the end, these aren't sports that men and women can currently compete as there is still a physical advantage to men.

 

Only sports I can think of that can be truly level is darts and snooker or sports that involve driving or riding. But even then women struggle make an impact in motor sport and the previously mention darts and snooker even when given the chance. That may be down societal views prevent many taking it up, but again people not taking up sports male or female may be preventing us from see talents of either sex, so I'm not sure it can be used as a reason, surely there would have been a woman at some point who broke the glass ceiling if it were possible.

The theory is that more women than men have been prevented from taking up such sports, so there is a discrepancy there and it will take a while for the effects of that to be cleared away.

 

Perhaps give it a few more decades where sports of skill have more equivalence in terms of representation and role models and thus talent pool and a more firm conclusion might be drawn. Interesting discussion either way.

[Finnegan]

On 26/07/2021 at 08:13, Webbo said:

You'd think that men and women could compete against each other equally in those sports but they don't. There's never been a woman who's dominated any of those sports, horsey stuff aside, so men must have an advantage. 

 

I actually don't understand why we have mens sports in any discipline to be honest. 

 

We should have Unisex sports and, where its unrealistic to expect women to compete, retain women's sports. 

 

It'd resolve a lot of the arguments about fair play if we just let the likes of Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd and Marta join men's teams. Doesn't really matter if they only end up being good enough for League One sides, you only get better by getting more experience and stepping up levels. 

 

Don't think size or strength is a good enough argument whilst Leicester City Women have a centre forward that looks like she could kick the shit out of Madders with her thighs alone. 

 

Plenty of smaller male footballers running around. 

 

Even if the uptake ends up being <1% in most major sports, as long as selection remains a meritocracy and no bright spark starts imposing quotas then the  option should always be there. 

[Milo]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I actually don't understand why we have mens sports in any discipline to be honest. 

 

We should have Unisex sports and, where its unrealistic to expect women to compete, retain women's sports. 

 

It'd resolve a lot of the arguments about fair play if we just let the likes of Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd and Marta join men's teams. Doesn't really matter if they only end up being good enough for League One sides, you only get better by getting more experience and stepping up levels. 

 

Don't think size or strength is a good enough argument whilst Leicester City Women have a centre forward that looks like she could kick the shit out of Madders with her thighs alone. 

 

Plenty of smaller male footballers running around. 

 

Even if the uptake ends up being <1% in most major sports, as long as selection remains a meritocracy and no bright spark starts imposing quotas then the  option should always be there. 

Brave idea, mate!

 

Does anyone have any kids that play in a mixed team? If so, how is it? 
 

[Parafox]

Could go either way (popular/unpopular) but I love a good thunderstorm. 

[Parafox]

Without quoting all the previous male v female posts, IMO men don't like being beaten by women with certain exceptions; 

 

[The Bear]

9 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Could go either way (popular/unpopular) but I love a good thunderstorm. 

I like watching them as long as I'm not out in them. 

[Corky]

10 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Could go either way (popular/unpopular) but I love a good thunderstorm. 

After a heatwave they are great.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

Could go either way (popular/unpopular) but I love a good thunderstorm. 

 

Me too.

 

One of my most enduring memories is of sitting in a cave on a mountain in Northern Greece watching the most spectular light show that I've ever seen before or since.

[Daggers]

The colour of the away shirt is blue and it reminds me of Cov - there, have at it you guttersnipes.

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, Daggers said:

The colour of the away shirt is blue and it reminds me of Cov - there, have at it you guttersnipes.

I felt the same about last seasons Northampton kit to be fair.

[Daggers]

6 minutes ago, Nick said:

I felt the same about last seasons Northampton kit to be fair.

That they looked like Cov? Which one, the burgundy, the pinstripe white, or the dayglo yellow?