volpeazzurro Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 3 hours ago, Matt said: My big arguement is that I know Shakespeare wasn't up to it, but getting a new manager in while Rudkin (And his 'team' - If there is one) is pointless. Until something changes internally within the club we'll just be treading water at best. So despite Rudkin, do you really not think that a decent manager couldn't get better out of all the talent we have at the club compared to Shakespeare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 3 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said: So despite Rudkin, do you really not think that a decent manager couldn't get better out of all the talent we have at the club compared to Shakespeare? Thats not what i've said. As i've said I know Shakespeare wasn't up to it, a new manager could get more out of the players without a doubt, just be abit more inventive and attacking would be an improvement but no matter who is the new manager he'll still be working with his hands tied while Rudkin is there. We fail in with transfers window after window! The team struggles to be improved and that will continue while Rudkin is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishOxide Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Stelling just said we want Wagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald reynard Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Pellegrini, with Appleton as his Assistant ? We know Pellegrini is not a 'tracksuit' manager, doesn't do training etc, but that is Appleton's forte. Seems a fairly logical partnership ? I don't think Pellegrini has a dedicated coaching team, who he takes everywhere he goes - and he has been out of the English game for a while. Appleton (and Stowell) could fill that gap ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outfox the Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 15 minutes ago, bald reynard said: Pellegrini, with Appleton as his Assistant ? We know Pellegrini is not a 'tracksuit' manager, doesn't do training etc, but that is Appleton's forte. Seems a fairly logical partnership ? I don't think Pellegrini has a dedicated coaching team, who he takes everywhere he goes - and he has been out of the English game for a while. Appleton (and Stowell) could fill that gap ? Ruben Cousillas and Brian Kidd were his Assistants at Man City. Kidd is still at the Etihad, but Cousillas is Pellegrini's Assistant in China. I think Cousillas has worked with him at all his Clubs; but he looks even older than Pellegrini, so I doubt he'll do much physical stuff in training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HybridFox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Seem to get the feeling Appleton will stay on as number 2, whoever is appointed. It does seem odd he didn't leave with Shakey unless some sort of agreement was in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weller54 Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 4 minutes ago, TK95 said: Seem to get the feeling Appleton will stay on as number 2, whoever is appointed. It does seem odd he didn't leave with Shakey unless some sort of agreement was in place Would you want to tell him that he's sacked?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outfox the Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 1 hour ago, bald reynard said: Pellegrini, with Appleton as his Assistant ? We know Pellegrini is not a 'tracksuit' manager, doesn't do training etc, but that is Appleton's forte. Seems a fairly logical partnership ? I don't think Pellegrini has a dedicated coaching team, who he takes everywhere he goes - and he has been out of the English game for a while. Appleton (and Stowell) could fill that gap ? 41 minutes ago, Outfox the Fox said: Ruben Cousillas and Brian Kidd were his Assistants at Man City. Kidd is still at the Etihad, but Cousillas is Pellegrini's Assistant in China. I think Cousillas has worked with him at all his Clubs; but he looks even older than Pellegrini, so I doubt he'll do much physical stuff in training! 36 minutes ago, TK95 said: Seem to get the feeling Appleton will stay on as number 2, whoever is appointed. It does seem odd he didn't leave with Shakey unless some sort of agreement was in place Pellegrini has often kept members of the existing Coaching staff when he's been appointed Head Coach / Manager, as he did with Brian Kidd at Man City. I think it's quite likely that Appleton and Stowell would be kept on if he came to City, though Cousillas would probably be his Assistant Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Author Share Posted 21 October 2017 1 hour ago, EnglishOxide said: Stelling just said we want Wagner. I bet he is on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Surely that Fonseca link is garbage? Sounds like a student on work experience trying to get himself noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volpeazzurro Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 1 hour ago, Matt said: Thats not what i've said. As i've said I know Shakespeare wasn't up to it, a new manager could get more out of the players without a doubt, just be abit more inventive and attacking would be an improvement but no matter who is the new manager he'll still be working with his hands tied while Rudkin is there. We fail in with transfers window after window! The team struggles to be improved and that will continue while Rudkin is there. Sorry, I must have misread you then but, whilst on the subject of Rudkin and all the apparent hate for him on here , does anyone on here really know what goes on behind the scenes or is it just guesswork? Does anyone really know what Rudkin does, I suspect not. I would guess that he conducts negotiations for players for example, about which I doubt many people on here, including me, realise the complexities, but I doubt he actually picks the targets himself. Susan Whelan has been with our owners for over 20yrs and is highly trusted by them, she is an impressive business woman but does anyone actually know what she does either? It's not as if they can come out and explain themselves for numerous reasons even if they wanted to. An example would be the overhyped 14 second late transfer debacle. Everyone automatically assumes it was down to incompetence, I doubt it personally, logic suggests to me there must have been a reason. Had the transfer been doable at the right price 1 week or a month before, I'm sure it would have been done like the Maguire deal. I'm sure the murky multimillion pound world of brinkmanship and double dealing doesn't quite work like that. Harry Rednapp on the day after his sacking at Birmingham told of an agreement to buy a Torino player, supposedly just requiring signatures only for Torino to drag it out and demand more money minutes before the deadline so they told them to do one. Tottenham 's Daniel Levy is renowned for trying to squeeze the last dollar out of a deal at the last minute. I suspect we don't know the half over the Silva deal or the ways they look for and court a new manager either. To us it's a passion and entertainment but to our owners it's quite understandably a business. We on here have varying opinions on Shakespeare, new managers and players. They, with recourse to ALL the facts have to make informed decisions, knowing that some will be unpopular. That goes for Rudkin as well who is an easy target for people's frustrations I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 5 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said: does anyone on here really know what goes on behind the scenes or is it just guesswork? I've got this - the answer is no, they don't, it's just guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bboy Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Just now, volpeazzurro said: Sorry, I must have misread you then but, whilst on the subject of Rudkin and all the apparent hate for him on here , does anyone on here really know what goes on behind the scenes or is it just guesswork? Does anyone really know what Rudkin does, I suspect not. I would guess that he conducts negotiations for players for example, about which I doubt many people on here, including me, realise the complexities, but I doubt he actually picks the targets himself. Susan Whelan has been with our owners for over 20yrs and is highly trusted by them, she is an impressive business woman but does anyone actually know what she does either? It's not as if they can come out and explain themselves for numerous reasons even if they wanted to. An example would be the overhyped 14 second late transfer debacle. Everyone automatically assumes it was down to incompetence, I doubt it personally, logic suggests to me there must have been a reason. Had the transfer been doable at the right price 1 week or a month before, I'm sure it would have been done like the Maguire deal. I'm sure the murky multimillion pound world of brinkmanship and double dealing doesn't quite work like that. Harry Rednapp on the day after his sacking at Birmingham told of an agreement to buy a Torino player, supposedly just requiring signatures only for Torino to drag it out and demand more money minutes before the deadline so they told them to do one. Tottenham 's Daniel Levy is renowned for trying to squeeze the last dollar out of a deal at the last minute. I suspect we don't know the half over the Silva deal or the ways they look for and court a new manager either. To us it's a passion and entertainment but to our owners it's quite understandably a business. We on here have varying opinions on Shakespeare, new managers and players. They, with recourse to ALL the facts have to make informed decisions, knowing that some will be unpopular. That goes for Rudkin as well who is an easy target for people's frustrations I feel. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 5 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said: Sorry, I must have misread you then but, whilst on the subject of Rudkin and all the apparent hate for him on here , does anyone on here really know what goes on behind the scenes or is it just guesswork? Does anyone really know what Rudkin does, I suspect not. I would guess that he conducts negotiations for players for example, about which I doubt many people on here, including me, realise the complexities, but I doubt he actually picks the targets himself. Susan Whelan has been with our owners for over 20yrs and is highly trusted by them, she is an impressive business woman but does anyone actually know what she does either? It's not as if they can come out and explain themselves for numerous reasons even if they wanted to. An example would be the overhyped 14 second late transfer debacle. Everyone automatically assumes it was down to incompetence, I doubt it personally, logic suggests to me there must have been a reason. Had the transfer been doable at the right price 1 week or a month before, I'm sure it would have been done like the Maguire deal. I'm sure the murky multimillion pound world of brinkmanship and double dealing doesn't quite work like that. Harry Rednapp on the day after his sacking at Birmingham told of an agreement to buy a Torino player, supposedly just requiring signatures only for Torino to drag it out and demand more money minutes before the deadline so they told them to do one. Tottenham 's Daniel Levy is renowned for trying to squeeze the last dollar out of a deal at the last minute. I suspect we don't know the half over the Silva deal or the ways they look for and court a new manager either. To us it's a passion and entertainment but to our owners it's quite understandably a business. We on here have varying opinions on Shakespeare, new managers and players. They, with recourse to ALL the facts have to make informed decisions, knowing that some will be unpopular. That goes for Rudkin as well who is an easy target for people's frustrations I feel. Agree with most of what you're saying, but I can't let that pass. Over hyped? You're joking. £22 million plus wages, a player banned for 4 months, a team left horribly exposed in midfield... fcking disaster. It is under- hyped IMO. It's all gone quiet now. I can;t understand why there isn't riots in the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phube Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 If only we could have got Rafa or Silva... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriderHiryu Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 30 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Surely that Fonseca link is garbage? Sounds like a student on work experience trying to get himself noticed. This guy will get a top job very soon in Europe. An unknown quantity (especially for a team like us), but he's done a great job with Shakhar who have only lost one game all season which was to Man City. By all accounts they are playing some lovely stuff despite having the situation of being unable to train or play in their home ground due to the political situation. They beat Napoli and Feyenord already this year and won the treble domestically last season. Not saying we should get him, but he fits the "exciting young manager" bill if that's the way we want to go. He had a setback at Porto, losing his job there but has bounced back well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Author Share Posted 21 October 2017 6 hours ago, Hammo said: If, as is widely contended on here, Rudkin is at the heart of our problems, why on earth do the Thais persist in keeping faith with him? Loyalty can only go so far before the bonds break, especially when there is so much money and reputation at stake. And we know that our owners do not suffer fools gladly. Any ideas, anyone? They keep Rudkin as a secret sex toy in a gimp costume when he is not ****ing over the managerial staff he is being used and pumped for all he is worth perhaps? Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Author Share Posted 21 October 2017 2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said: This guy will get a top job very soon in Europe. An unknown quantity (especially for a team like us), but he's done a great job with Shakhar who have only lost one game all season which was to Man City. By all accounts they are playing some lovely stuff despite having the situation of being unable to train or play in their home ground due to the political situation. They beat Napoli and Feyenord already this year and won the treble domestically last season. Not saying we should get him, but he fits the "exciting young manager" bill if that's the way we want to go. He had a setback at Porto, losing his job there but has bounced back well. Sounds a decent manager in fairness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volpeazzurro Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 2 hours ago, murphy said: Agree with most of what you're saying, but I can't let that pass. Over hyped? You're joking. £22 million plus wages, a player banned for 4 months, a team left horribly exposed in midfield... fcking disaster. It is under- hyped IMO. It's all gone quiet now. I can;t understand why there isn't riots in the street. I understand what you mean and I didn't explain myself well. Quite rightly it's highlighted, it's a lot of money and we still haven't effectively got the player for the sake of 14 seconds! But ...all the media speculation is biased in suggesting that this is down to one man's incompetence which of course sells papers. Even Sir Gary has jumped on the bandwagon but neither he or the press know the facts. What if for example a deal had been eventually agreed and we can reasonably assume because an extension had been applied for and agreed, that negotiations were ongoing and possibly tense. If at the last minute the selling club renaged on the deal and wanted more money, every million counts in the real world. Who knows what went on, who had to be consulted etc. In this scenario would you reasonably expect the club to tell all to the press and risk future relationships with other clubs for blabbing? It's called diplomacy. If they did tell all and risk their reputation, does keeping a few supporters happy and 'in the know' help them in future dealings? I personally do not, it's not worth it for the bigger picture. I think there's more to it than meets the eye and the club's hands are effectively tied. It's because of our owners that we're even discussing deals worth multi million pounds. It's their money to spend how they want and would logically do so in what they believe is in both the interests of the club and themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriderHiryu Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 I have a feeling that in the next week or two there will be a mad scramble for jobs. I expect Billic and Koeman to go soon and as clubs that are around the same level as us (IE players we are linked with, finances, etc), they will be competing with us for the same managers. West Ham are in London and have a large stadium and Everton have a billionaire owner (though considering the Lukaku sale didn't spend that much net). I could see Appleton staying in charge for quite a bit if that happened as compared to West Ham and Everton I think we are semi decent. We've been lackluster but haven't yet had an embarrassing defeat, whereas those two look pretty shocking at times. I feel like the owners got rid of Shakespeare because they want us to push for Europe, not just be another team battling relegation, even if we probably wouldn't have got relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsr-burnley Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 14 hours ago, Ric Flair said: He's in his late 40's and won't have earnt that much as a player so to suddenly go from £500,000 a year to £2,000,000 or more is huge and the safety net of a big pay off. He's on a sight more than £500,000 a year. I don't know where you get that figure from. But the players' bonuses last season, for the ones that played all season, were about that amount; and you can be sure that the manager's bonus wasn't less than the players'. When Dyche joined us 5 years ago, he no doubt got the going rate for a Championship manager - I suspect that would be around the half a million mark. Perhaps less, but not by that much. Since then he has signed three more contracts, the last one especially on a "write your own figure" basis. Our board of directors have no doubt about who is responsible for Burnley's position. If Dyche hasn't got a clause stipulating that his salary is at least as high as the highest paid player, I'd be amazed. I'd say he's be on about £2m a year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 Let's just all agree on some obscure manager from a far away land all put a quid on him getting the job at various bookmakers and watch the media shitstorm follow. If we have to go through this again and again let's at least make it worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted 21 October 2017 Share Posted 21 October 2017 4 minutes ago, Aus Fox said: Let's just all agree on some obscure manager from a far away land all put a quid on him getting the job at various bookmakers and watch the media shitstorm follow. If we have to go through this again and again let's at least make it worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 21 October 2017 Author Share Posted 21 October 2017 17 minutes ago, Aus Fox said: Let's just all agree on some obscure manager from a far away land all put a quid on him getting the job at various bookmakers and watch the media shitstorm follow. If we have to go through this again and again let's at least make it worth while. #VoteBob ok I live in Groby which isn’t exactly a far away land (ahem lol) but let’s see now . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridport007 Posted 22 October 2017 Share Posted 22 October 2017 Got to say...not necessarily for us, but, Chris Hughton....respect!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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