Ashes 2017

[AKCJ]

Thats that then.

[Guest MattP]

Finally see dome changes hopefully now we've lost.

[GaelicFox]

Can’t bat 

 

can’t bowl 

 

can’t field 

 

can’t plan , prepare and perform 

 

we are a disgrace to The memories of the great ghosts of English cricket past 

 

Test Cricket is dying and dying fast if we don’t arrest this slide then we are going to drive it over the edge 

 

 

[FrankieADZ]

theyve been awful from start to finish, only took the edge in 2 sessions out of the 3 tests,

 

only players imo whos came out of it with credit are Malan and Overton the big players havent turned up, 

 

actually pretty pitiful the lack of fight from them, unless its in the pub of course

Root or any of the engand team are scrapping the barrel if there are many positives from any of the tests, 

sad thing is i think we'll probably see the same team for the next test on Boxing day, think id rather see some of the Lions team get a chance,

 

need to start building for the future for me and give some new blood a chance in the last 2 tests

Edited 18 December 2017 by FrankieADZ

[yorkie1999]

25 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

Can’t bat 

 

can’t bowl 

 

can’t field 

 

can’t plan , prepare and perform 

 

we are a disgrace to The memories of the great ghosts of English cricket past 

 

Test Cricket is dying and dying fast if we don’t arrest this slide then we are going to drive it over the edge 

 

 

Hardly ghosts, we had a half decent side not long back. Problem for me is we've no stand out characters anymore.

[ealingfox]

I would hope the problem isn't motivation with Cook, theoretically he should have plenty left in the tank. The all-time Test run rankings would be my motivation if I were in his position. Only a few hundred off the top 6 as it is, and he could have 5 years left easily. With a bit of graft he should be able to catch Tendulkar.

Edited 18 December 2017 by ealingfox

[ealingfox]

Then again this:

 

Only six sides in history have scored 400+ in the 1st innings of a Test - and lost by an innings:

 

Eng v Aus, The Oval 1930
SL v Eng, Cardiff 2011
Eng v Ind, Mumbai 2016*
Eng v Ind, Chennai 2016*
Pak v Aus, Melbourne 2016
Eng v Aus, Perth 2017*

 

*3 of England's last 5 away Tests

 

Is a pretty serious concern and says a lot. 

[Guest MattP]

Surely a few changes for the next test? Maybe even start to build now for the Test Championship and future series. Amazing it took this long.

 

Decide if they are sticking with Vince and if not bring in Jennings, decide who is going to be our spinner, if Crane doesn't play when Ali takes three wickets in three matches then you have to ask what the point of taking him was in the first place. Des Cook still want to play?

 

Start to build a team around Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Crane, Overton - fill the gaps in.

 

Ben Stokes has a lot to answer for this mind.

[Finnegan]

Is Cook still in the team because there's nobody else or is it like Welbeck and Sturridge always getting in your footy team even though they're shit? 

 

He seems to have about one good innings in twenty. 

 

I remember all the chat about how the captaincy was holding him back and that once he dropped it he could focus on his game and improve but then he's still absolutely gash. 

 

 

[RowlattsFox]

The squad for New Zealand should be interesting. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cook, Anderson and Broad 'rested'

[Guest MattP]

32 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Is Cook still in the team because there's nobody else or is it like Welbeck and Sturridge always getting in your footy team even though they're shit? 

 

He seems to have about one good innings in twenty. 

 

I remember all the chat about how the captaincy was holding him back and that once he dropped it he could focus on his game and improve but then he's still absolutely gash.

Reputation means a lot, he's the best opener we have ever had so dropping him isn't going to happen.

 

He'll still get picked because of what he's capable of, when on form he'll win you a match on his own, he looks woeful at the minute though, Rooney still being picked is a good comparison.

 

He's still only 32 which is young, whether he has the desire to continue is the problem, if an opener loses that it's not going to work.

[AKCJ]

6 hours ago, ealingfox said:

Then again this:

 

Only six sides in history have scored 400+ in the 1st innings of a Test - and lost by an innings:

 

Eng v Aus, The Oval 1930
SL v Eng, Cardiff 2011
Eng v Ind, Mumbai 2016*
Eng v Ind, Chennai 2016*
Pak v Aus, Melbourne 2016
Eng v Aus, Perth 2017*

 

*3 of England's last 5 away Tests

 

Is a pretty serious concern and says a lot. 

It says that we can't bowl to save our lives outside of England.

 

 

Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Finn, Roland-Jones, Ball, Overton, Stokes, Plunkett, Wood.... the list is almost endless yet they all relatively similar.

I don't follow cricket closely enough to see who we've got waiting in the wings or who we can look to bring in apart from the Curran brothers but we best hope we've got some decent youngsters with a bit of fire in their bellies because the England attack isn't currently good enough to trouble batting line ups outside of the country.

 

We could easily waste the talents of Root and Stokes because we don't have anyone else in the side capable.

[AKCJ]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

Reputation means a lot, he's the best opener we have ever had so dropping him isn't going to happen.

 

He'll still get picked because of what he's capable of, when on form he'll win you a match on his own, he looks woeful at the minute though, Rooney still being picked is a good comparison.

 

He's still only 32 which is young, whether he has the desire to continue is the problem, if an opener loses that it's not going to work.

Cook will stay on IMO, at least I hope he does.

 

We don't have anyone good enough to challenge him at the moment and I think he will play himself into form.

 

As you say, he's still young. People think he's older because he broke into the side at such a young age.

 

[Osavo]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

It says that we can't bowl to save our lives outside of England.

 

 

Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Finn, Roland-Jones, Ball, Overton, Stokes, Plunkett, Wood.... the list is almost endless yet they all relatively similar.

I don't follow cricket closely enough to see who we've got waiting in the wings or who we can look to bring in apart from the Curran brothers but we best hope we've got some decent youngsters with a bit of fire in their bellies because the England attack isn't currently good enough to trouble batting line ups outside of the country.

 

We could easily waste the talents of Root and Stokes because we don't have anyone else in the side capable.

That's the problem though, you look around county cricket and there is no one forcing their way into the team with something a bit different. Players such as Porter, Coad, Helm and Overton bowled well last season, but offer absolutely nothing that our current bowlers don't. 

 

We lack genuine pace. Wood offers that but is extremely injury prone. Shame that Jofra Archer isn't eligible until 2022 as feel he could be excellent for us, hopefully he doesn't opt to play for the Windies instead. 

[Finnegan]

What's participation in grass roots cricket like compared to twenty or thirty years ago? 

 

Is it just simply declining and Australia, South Africa and India are just naturally going to pull away as every generation goes by? 

[m4DD0gg]

1. Sack Strauss.
2. Replace Bayliss with an Englishman.
3. Play in all schools; waivers signed by over protective parents or refused entry on application.
4. Show on terrestrial TV.
5. Sit the ECB down with all the county chairman to try and work out how to save cricket from extinction from the grass roots up.

[GaelicFox]

9 hours ago, MattP said:

Surely a few changes for the next test? Maybe even start to build now for the Test Championship and future series. Amazing it took this long.

 

Decide if they are sticking with Vince and if not bring in Jennings, decide who is going to be our spinner, if Crane doesn't play when Ali takes three wickets in three matches then you have to ask what the point of taking him was in the first place. Des Cook still want to play?

 

Start to build a team around Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Crane, Overton - fill the gaps in.

 

Ben Stokes has a lot to answer for this mind.

I love you matt your a grade A poster but behave yourself with that last line 

 

He got in a scrap FFS no one died and no one was seriously hurt 

 

a joke he was kicked out for that 

[GaelicFox]

8 minutes ago, m4DD0gg said:

1. Sack Strauss.
2. Replace Bayliss with an Englishman.
3. Play in all schools; waivers signed by over protective parents or refused entry on application.
4. Show on terrestrial TV.
5. Sit the ECB down with all the county chairman to try and work out how to save cricket from extinction from the grass roots up.

Yes

yes 

yes 

yes 

FCUK YES 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, m4DD0gg said:

1. Sack Strauss.
2. Replace Bayliss with an Englishman.
3. Play in all schools; waivers signed by over protective parents or refused entry on application.
4. Show on terrestrial TV.
5. Sit the ECB down with all the county chairman to try and work out how to save cricket from extinction from the grass roots up.

I'm not gonna get too deep into what's wrong because i'm hardly a massive Cricket fan and on a whole I don't know alot about what i'm talking about but I do like to get involved in an Ashes series but showing it on terrestrial TV is a massive one.

 

I've been Australia a few times and a few times whilst the Ashes has been on, they were outraged and so shocked when I told them it was on Sky (now BT) not terrestrial, I think its law (Perhaps not law but certainly protected) that national things like this must be free to everyone in Australia.

 

As i've said a few times as far as i'm concerned i've not really been interested or bothered with this series because it was on BT, not only that but I couldn't even watch highlights because they were also on BT, people slag Sky off but atleast when Sky had it there was some consolation that those who didn't have Sky they had some highlights package on terrestrial.

 

How are people supposed to have an interest, follow the sport when they can't watch it!

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, m4DD0gg said:

1. Sack Strauss.
2. Replace Bayliss with an Englishman.
3. Play in all schools; waivers signed by over protective parents or refused entry on application.
4. Show on terrestrial TV.
5. Sit the ECB down with all the county chairman to try and work out how to save cricket from extinction from the grass roots up.

Out of interest why do you want Bayliss specifically replaced by an Englishman? I just want England to be coached by the best and it doesn’t exist in an Englishman. 

 

And it was a Zimbabwean what got England’s shit together at Test Cricket after hitting the bottom. 

[Guest MattP]

13 hours ago, Finnegan said:

What's participation in grass roots cricket like compared to twenty or thirty years ago? 

 

Is it just simply declining and Australia, South Africa and India are just naturally going to pull away as every generation goes by? 

It's about the same in terms of numbers.

 

South Africa certainly won't pull away, we hammered them in the summer and some of the white players are now starting to sign county contracts rather than commit to International cricket as the quota system takes hold, De Villiers, Millar, Morkel are all about ready to retire as well. I can see them becoming another Zimbabwe.
 

In September last year the CSA declared that with immediate effect the national team has to play an average minimum of 54% black players and average minimum of 18% black African players over the season. It's not only harmful in terms of losing talented non black players but the talented black kids they have like Kagiso Rabada are already breaking down injured because they are having to play every match to reach the targets.

 

13 hours ago, m4DD0gg said:

1. Sack Strauss.
2. Replace Bayliss with an Englishman.
3. Play in all schools; waivers signed by over protective parents or refused entry on application.
4. Show on terrestrial TV.
5. Sit the ECB down with all the county chairman to try and work out how to save cricket from extinction from the grass roots up.

1. Maybe, but just imagine the PR doing this, it's bad enough now without getting rid of someone a week after his wife was diagnosed with cancer and he's on personal leave.

 

2. Agree with replacing Bayliss, doesn't have to be English though.

 

3. Not going to happen, some schools just aren't interested. As soon as kids start dying because we've forced them to play you'll have all sorts of trouble as well.

 

4. Highlights certainly, live cricket no, it was crap on the BBC, Channel 4 did an ok job but we still missed live Ashes wickets as they had gone over to the racing and even once missed the last over of the day as Hollyoaks had started. Anyone who thinks a return to terrestial will bring about better players needs to remember the late 80's and early 90's where we had the worst England team of all time off the back of live terrestial coverage. Counties like Leicestershire wouldn't have a chance of surviving with the Sky money either. The money that has gone into the game at grassroots could never have happened with the pittance the BBC used to pay for it. We also have to remain competitive money wise or players will go to the IPL etc

 

5. I don't buy all this extinction lark, I remember going to Headlingley on a Saturday in 1998 and it was half full, Leicestershire v Australia barely pulled in 250 punters, it was a dying sport twenty years ago, now it's full Friday and every weekend of every test match, county attendance are at the highest ever - ( Over the 2016 season, attendances for the three domestic competitions totalled more than 1.59 million spectators - the highest season aggregate since the ECB was formed in 1997 and a 3% increase on 2015. - http://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/story/_/id/19064584/elizabeth-ammon-state-english-county-cricket )

 

We shouldn't throw away twenty years of hard work on one bad series.

 

13 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

I love you matt your a grade A poster but behave yourself with that last line 

 

He got in a scrap FFS no one died and no one was seriously hurt 

 

a joke he was kicked out for that 

Cheers mate appreciated. For what it's worth I would have taken Stokes, innocent until proven guilty and all that,

 

I'm annoyed at him though for getting himself into a position where it could happen, if you are out at 3am in the middle of a series this can occur, if he wants to get pissed just go out for a bit then when you want to kick on do it in the hotel bar like cricketers have always done.

 

You can't have sportsman throwing punches in the streets in the camera phone age.

[Voll Blau]

I would say grassroots participation, based on my own experience of trying to get sides together, has definitely declined in the last 10 years.

 

We really didn't capitalise on the 2005 summer when the whole country went mental for Test cricket. I know there's always been an element of it there, but it seems the cricket authorities are becoming far more complacent as time goes by in terms of just thinking private schools (and other countries' schools) will produce us decent pro players in this country.

 

Obviously there are good youth programmes at a lot of clubs, but there's so much more that could be done to widen the pool of talent across England at youth level.

 

That said, I think more needs to be done to retain cricketers when they hit 18-25 - an awful lot of good talents I know have just drifted out of the game purely because they feel the sport is too time-consuming and takes up too much of their weekend.

Edited 19 December 2017 by Voll Blau

[Finnegan]

Has the rise of short formats also had a noticeable hit on the stock of quality test match cricketers and would you say that's a global trend? 

 

I'm always hearing that this "isn't a good Australia team" despite the fact the Aussies are mad for cricket. Are even they focusing more on ODI and t20? 

 

I'm guessing there's more money in that? I assume the Universe Boss racks up a lot more wages touring the world playing t20 for a different team every couple of months than Alistair Cook does playing five day cricket? 

Edited 19 December 2017 by Finnegan

[Guest MattP]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Has the rise of short formats also had a noticeable hit on the stock of quality test match cricketers and would you say that's a global trend? 

 

I'm always hearing that this "isn't a good Australia team" despite the fact the Aussies are mad for cricket. Are even they focusing more on ODI and t20? 

 

I'm guessing there's more money in that? I assume the Universe Boss racks up a lot more wages touring the world playing t20 for a different team every couple of months than Alistair Cook does playing five day cricket? 

Big effect on batting, not many players have the patience for test match cricket anymore, don't think we'll ever see a innings like Mike Atherton's to save a Test Match in Jo'burg again.

 

Central contracts depend on length, experience, value and how much cricket you play - these are the latest ones and they'll increase hugely in 2020 when the new TV deal kicks in as it's worth over double what Sky paid last time.

 

Player	Retainer fee	Test fee	ODI fee	T20 fee
Alastair Cook	£1.5 Million	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Alex Hales	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Eoin Morgan	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Joe Root	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Jason Roy	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Jonny Bairstow	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Jos Buttler	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Moeen Ali	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Adil Rashid	£700,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Ben Stokes	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
David Willey	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Chris Woakes	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
James Anderson	£700,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Jake Ball	£120,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Stuart Broad	£900,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Steven Finn	£700,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Liam Plunkett	£450,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Mark Wood	£700,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500
Gary Ballance	£120,000	£15,000	£7,500	£3,500

 

It's huge money if you are a talented and up for T20 though you can top this up hugely , Ben Stokes is set to earn $1.6million for eight weeks work in India (he has to give 10% to his county as it's during the season), the top players are getting £750,000+ all expenses for 2 months in Australia for the Big Bash - even average players like Plunkett can earn £20,000 a week in these competitions.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Crane set to start in Melbourne according to Athers.