How can we get a message to Claude?

[RODNEY FERNIO]

Still fuming about our line up against Man City and still fuming about our line up against Fleetwood.

The only voice they'll listen to is called money ... they certainly won't listen to our voice. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Answer: we could pack the stadium out for the replay against Fleetwood?

 

Simple really. If we don't, then surely the owners/Puel will conclude we're not bothered either.

[Shram]

I think Puel got it right for both Man City and Fleetwood, however weak the side City put out there were no guaruentees we’d have won just a better chance of winning.

 

With Fleetwood we’ve had a manic festive period (the busiest in the league i think) and already 3 injuries to first team regulars the risk on a crappy pitch would have been higher. The team put out simply played shit and Fleetwood raised there game, otherwise it was strong enough to beat them. Also ha e to consider the benefit to the squad, Puel’s new he needs to find other systems and we also need more better form from the likes of Ihanacho and Slimani, over the course of the season cup games included having a better squad with more confidence amongst them just about justifies the approach to a weaker team.

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

How many Cups and Leagues have we won in the last 30 year’s resting people?

 

Answer: ZERO.

 

That tells me it’s not the way to go to win trophies.

 

Regarding your view we can’t possibly win a Cup as we could play Man Utd, Arsenal etc. These have already lost to lower league teams in Cup competitions this season. 

 

Why on earth could we not beat  PL teams if we played a full strength side and therefore progress? 

 

Sorry you argument does not hold water. 

 

Well should we always play our best XI regardless of fatigue or maybe concentrate on the cups and rotate for league games?

 

If we did that there was a good chance we got relegated in 2015 and 2017. 

 

It's all very well armchair managers in hindsight saying what we should be doing. I seem to recall before the Southampton away match last month people were lambasting Puel for his team selection and within a couple of hours he was some sort of genius after a 4-1 away win with the likes of Andy King in the side.

 

Sport science will tell you that the players can't properly recover playing games twice a week so the manager has decisions to make rather than just selecting the same XI every match. If we beat Man City on penalties this wouldn't be a topic of discussion so it's a couple of spot kicks that define Puel as either an idiot or a genius for his team selection. We finished the Man City with a really strong team and we're still in the FA Cup and big favourites to progress so it's fine margins.

Edited 9 January 2018 by Gerard

[yorkie1999]

I’ve just gotta get a message to you, oh Claude, oh Claude 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Still fuming about our line up against Man City and still fuming about our line up against Fleetwood.

The only voice they'll listen to is called money ... they certainly won't listen to our voice. 

Are you the angry guy that sits near me in L1 that calls absolutely everyone a c**t?

[jonthefox]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Answer: we could pack the stadium out for the replay against Fleetwood?

 

Simple really. If we don't, then surely the owners/Puel will conclude we're not bothered either.

He’s got a point y’know.

[murphy]

48 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Are you the angry guy that sits near me in L1 that calls absolutely everyone a c**t?

No that's me you c**t!    

 

[murphy]

13 hours ago, Captain... said:

How do we tell Claude Puel that we the fans want to take the FA Cup seriously?
 

....

Did you read the Fleetwood pre match thread?

 

Most people were calling for a heavily weakened/rotated team.  We got away with it - just - and now everybody blames Puel for doing exactly what they wanted.  How do we get out own fans to take the FA cup seriously?

 

The Fleetwood game panned out exactly how I thought it would with that team.

[Leeds Fox]

20 minutes ago, murphy said:

Did you read the Fleetwood pre match thread?

 

Most people were calling for a heavily weakened/rotated team.  We got away with it - just - and now everybody blames Puel for doing exactly what they wanted.  How do we get out own fans to take the FA cup seriously?

 

The Fleetwood game panned out exactly how I thought it would with that team.

 

I think people were happy with the rotation but they weren’t happy with the performance. The team that we put out should have been good enough to progress, and definitely shouldn’t have been as bad as they were. 

[Dan]

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Answer: we could pack the stadium out for the replay against Fleetwood?

 

Simple really. If we don't, then surely the owners/Puel will conclude we're not bothered either.

The club have already concluded that by only opening one stand. That shows ultimately their attitude to it.

[Foxxed]

So Puel heavily rotating against Fleetwood in order to give fitness and assess the team. There was about 30 million pounds of talent on that field. Even with new tactics we should have won. I don't think this is "not taking it seriously" but taking a calculated risk. 

 

Besides, what message are you going to send? "Have you considered playing a stronger side, Claude? Maybe the rewards of progresssing are not worth the risks of improved match fitness and assessing different tactics and players." He probably did and decided against the wisdom of the crowd. I don't think he's a moron. He's done very well so far. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Kitchandro]

3 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Answer: we could pack the stadium out for the replay against Fleetwood?

 

Simple really. If we don't, then surely the owners/Puel will conclude we're not bothered either.

I think that's a little unfair. There's been no indication that it will be treated as anything other than a reserve match so why should anyone bother?

 

The away end was full on Saturday, so what was the excuse then?

[Dan]

I don't mind rotation, even in league games when it's necessary I'm in favour of it, I just think he made too many changes again and we got a very disjointed performance as a result.

 

Before the game I said I'd have made about 3/4 changes, specifically starting Barnes so that we can help him integrate into our system quicker. Having seen what unfolded I absolutely stand by that. He showed a couple of neat touches early on but ended up looking lost, and quite honestly how can people blame him? No-one looked like they had a clue what they were doing. They looked like they'd never met each other before.

 

What I'll forgive Puel on is that he's still learning the squad, and I think he's still deciding who is any real use to us. Quite honestly I'd happily sell a lot of the side who played at Fleetwood and I hope that's what he's thinking too. I hope that's what was achieved from that game that he's ruthless.

 

That side should've beaten Fleetwood but when you've made that many changes you're already running a risk. I think we'll see them off at home but I'm worried he'll go and do it against at Peterborough and they can put that side to bed.

[Kitchandro]

28 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

So Puel heavily rotating against Fleetwood in order to give fitness and assess the team. There was about 30 million pounds of talent on that field. Even with new tactics we should have won. I don't think this is "not taking it seriously" but taking a calculated risk. 

 

Besides, what message are you going to send? "Have you considered playing a stronger side, Claude? Maybe the rewards of progresssing are not worth the risks of improved match fitness and assessing different tactics and players." He probably did and decided against the wisdom of the crowd. I don't think he's a moron. He's done very well so far. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

There's giving someone the benefit of the doubt (not that he's really earnt it) and then there's being biased. I don't think anyone with a football brain envisaged us creating many chances with that line up. There is no indication that there was a serious calculation in the risk. Are we to believe he completely miscalculated in the league cup quarter-final as well? You don't need to 'assess' these tactics, anyone with half a brain could tell you they weren't going to work.

 

So - either he's too stupid to learn learn from his mistakes and is too tactically inept to see those teams wouldn't work, or he just isn't bothered. Or both. But it has to be at least one of those, because that's 2 cup ties in a row that we've not progressed from (albeit we still have a chance in the 2nd one). If he is surprised at how badly we performed in both games then we should be having a serious look at him because that is a concern.

 

Frankly, I'd rather him play the team we played at Fleetwood in league matches, since the rest of the league is so bad we've no chance of going down. The league should not be the 'priority', if there needs to be one (and there doesn't in reality, resting that many players at once is nonsense).

 

I also don't accept that he's done 'very well' - we were the absolute pits under Shakespeare and an improvement in results was inevitable with the new manager bounce because we know that's what these players are like. On the whole, performances have been marginally better but most recent matches have been as bad as what we were seeing from Shakey. We've forfeited a great chance of winning a trophy and are going the same way about the only other competition we have a chance in this season.

 

 

Edited 10 January 2018 by Kitchandro

[murphy]

9 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

I think people were happy with the rotation but they weren’t happy with the performance. The team that we put out should have been good enough to progress, and definitely shouldn’t have been as bad as they were. 

Then what is the point of this thread?  People were happy with rotation but also want Puel to take the cup seriously, what does that mean?

 

I believe there were 8 changes for the Fleetwood game.  The point is not the value of the players in the team that some are suggesting but more the fact that the team is not used to playing with each other.

 

We should beat lower league opposition, but only if you pick a strong fluent side, otherwise you are asking for trouble.  We had a full week to recover before Chelsea.

 

 

[LittlethorpeFox]

23 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Who says a full strength team would have done any better? All we were missing really was Schmeichel (no extra impact, we got a clean sheet), Ndidi (who knows what he would have been like on that pitch), Mahrez (again capable of something special but that pitch was terrible for a footballer) and Maguire (defender, not sure how much impact he could have had, set pieces maybe, bringing the ball forward).

 

Also, we have a squad with fringe players that need game time when possible, for this Fleetwood game we put a side out that should have won with plenty of players getting minutes in the team. Man City I must agree is probably a different story but again, not sure Man City are beatable unless it's a special day (Leicester playing superb and Man City slightly off).

 

If we play a full strength team and pick up some more injuries we may completely drop out of the PL race for 7th which is our best chance of European football. The cup is too much about luck and on the day performance. It's always easy to judge in hindsight and you never know the consequence of your actions until afterwards. I am sure he has best intentions to balance success with keeping a large squad happy and match fit.

 

Either way, the manager will put out a team capable of winning a match. It could be worse, look at Arsenal, that team lineup (including subs) just took the complete pi55.

Well said and thank for saving me the time writing a similar post. Other than Kasper/Maguire (we kept a clean sheet anyway), the rest of the team were really first team other than maybe King, but he has more experience than anyone against that type of opposition so probably a good idea to play him and of course Harvey Barnes, and I thought everybody loved CP youth policy... ? or is that only when we win with younger players.... ?

[jayfox26]

On 09/01/2018 at 10:16, Kitchandro said:

He shouldn't need telling. I'm sure he's aware, actually.

 

In fact it shouldn't make any difference what we want, as a professional he should be ambitious enough to want to win trophies and not just 'survive'.

That's probably what they told him at Southampton.....

[Leeds Fox]

49 minutes ago, murphy said:

Then what is the point of this thread?  People were happy with rotation but also want Puel to take the cup seriously, what does that mean?

 

I believe there were 8 changes for the Fleetwood game.  The point is not the value of the players in the team that some are suggesting but more the fact that the team is not used to playing with each other.

 

We should beat lower league opposition, but only if you pick a strong fluent side, otherwise you are asking for trouble.  We had a full week to recover before Chelsea.

 

 

 

I didn’t start the thread! 

 

What I meant was that it seemed people were happy see some of the squad get more minutes. 

 

The team that was put out, in my opinion had should have had enough quality to beat Fleetwood. I never mentioned the price of players. 

 

I take your point about it not being a fluent side but that’s something that’s neat on impossible to do and ring the changes. 

 

If he’d played a team full of under 23s I’d say he wasn’t taking the cup seriously, but he used it to assess the squad in a competitive game, it was probably the only game he has the opportunity to do it. 

 

Anyway, strong side for the replay and against the Posh if we get through. 

 

 

[jayfox26]

9 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

There's giving someone the benefit of the doubt (not that he's really earnt it) and then there's being biased. I don't think anyone with a football brain envisaged us creating many chances with that line up. There is no indication that there was a serious calculation in the risk. Are we to believe he completely miscalculated in the league cup quarter-final as well? You don't need to 'assess' these tactics, anyone with half a brain could tell you they weren't going to work.

 

So - either he's too stupid to learn learn from his mistakes and is too tactically inept to see those teams wouldn't work, or he just isn't bothered. Or both. But it has to be at least one of those, because that's 2 cup ties in a row that we've not progressed from (albeit we still have a chance in the 2nd one). If he is surprised at how badly we performed in both games then we should be having a serious look at him because that is a concern.

 

Frankly, I'd rather him play the team we played at Fleetwood in league matches, since the rest of the league is so bad we've no chance of going down. The league should not be the 'priority', if there needs to be one (and there doesn't in reality, resting that many players at once is nonsense).

 

I also don't accept that he's done 'very well' - we were the absolute pits under Shakespeare and an improvement in results was inevitable with the new manager bounce because we know that's what these players are like. On the whole, performances have been marginally better but most recent matches have been as bad as what we were seeing from Shakey. We've forfeited a great chance of winning a trophy and are going the same way about the only other competition we have a chance in this season.

 

 

Ridiculous comments. "The rest of the league is so bad, we've no chance of going down". We are not safe from relegation yet and a few bad results and we'll be looking over our shoulder. And we didn't play badly against City in the cup, granted we were better 2nd half and in et but we should have won that game. None of us know what targets Puel has been set by the owners. Things to remember are he still doesnt have his own squad so expecting us to go all out for the league cup and fa cup as well as focusing on the league is just unrealistic. And also he finished 8th with Southampton and got to the league cup final and got sacked so yeh maybe he isnt bothered about the cups. If next season he has his own squad and does the same thing then yeh i can understand him getting criticised but for me we should be focusing on finishing top.7.and rebuilding the squad (starting in jan and continuing in the summer).

[NotTheMarketLeader]

13 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

Well should we always play our best XI regardless of fatigue or maybe concentrate on the cups and rotate for league games?

 

If we did that there was a good chance we got relegated in 2015 and 2017. 

 

It's all very well armchair managers in hindsight saying what we should be doing. I seem to recall before the Southampton away match last month people were lambasting Puel for his team selection and within a couple of hours he was some sort of genius after a 4-1 away win with the likes of Andy King in the side.

 

Sport science will tell you that the players can't properly recover playing games twice a week so the manager has decisions to make rather than just selecting the same XI every match. If we beat Man City on penalties this wouldn't be a topic of discussion so it's a couple of spot kicks that define Puel as either an idiot or a genius for his team selection. We finished the Man City with a really strong team and we're still in the FA Cup and big favourites to progress so it's fine margins.

The quick answer is;

 

We are in no danger of being relegated this season so none of the remainder of that side of your argument applies.

 

When selecting four or five Championship level players as we did it was a big risk going away to League One outfit. It was never going to be a cakewalk.

 

Re: recovery times; two games in a week does give time to recover, but if we ignore that, it wasn’t an issue for the Fleetwood game anyway.

 

In 11 days we will have played that one game at Fleetwood.

Edited 10 January 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[The whole world smiles]

Managers know football fans value the cups and want to win them.

 

They also know that 3 or 4 bad results in the premier league and those same fans will be cranking up the pressure for them to be sacked so focus on that instead. You can't blame managers for having a self preservation attitude seeing as fans and owners are so ruthless and impatient.

[Trav Le Bleu]

15 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The club have already concluded that by only opening one stand. That shows ultimately their attitude to it.

Further stands as needed (which I think happened vs Leeds in the Carabao cup and we still got a good turnout), so we could still fill the ground. I'm sure the owners are doing it this way because there has been negative feedback from the public.

[Trav Le Bleu]

15 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

I think that's a little unfair. There's been no indication that it will be treated as anything other than a reserve match so why should anyone bother?

 

The away end was full on Saturday, so what was the excuse then?

Supporting your club should be unconditional, but apparently there's people who don't think this way. You may have noticed how we sell less season tickets in the Championship?

[dayday]

We have a great chance of progressing through rounds 3 and 4, so minimal changes for me, this could be finally our year