England Squad Announced

[Guest MattP]

We need to build a gulag for the people who made that video.

[lgfualol]

Cant wait for Dier and Henderson's sideways passing masterclass vs Panama.

[Jaspa]

Drop Welbeck immediately and replace with another CM, even give Milner a call and see if he fancies one last tournament, still Shelvey or Cook that I would take over Welbeck.

 

Can understand Cahill as there's not really an experienced head at the back apart from Young, you can't trust Dier to organise a defence despite having a cranium large enough to get stuck in doorways he seems to have the intellect of a syfillitic eighteenth century lead paint salesman and mercury addict.

 

We'll see how it goes anyway, it's the mentality which has been our main weakness so let's see how the team applies themselves in competitive action under Saafgayt.

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

I'd probably lineup with something like this in the games against Tunisia & Panama with Alli pushed up behind Vardy & Kane, probably have to go a tad more defensive against Belgium though with Walker moving into RWB and throwing Jones/Cahill as the third CB. 

I'd go with the same line up but have Walker RWB and have Dier CB. Get Sterling floating centrally behind the front two, where he can cause some damage.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Vardy is the better finisher but Kane's all round game is far superior.

 

In an ideal world we'd have a midfield that could allow us to play them both but we can't have a 2 man midfield with the shite we've got there.

 

It's not really, is it? Let's be honest. We just like to say things like that because we think we're being too biased if we recognise Vardy and Mahrez as being legitimately world class. 

 

We cry when pundits don't give us recognition then we fall in to the same traps.

 

Kane is an outright penalty box poacher, his contribution is pretty much exclusively finishing. He's better at shooting from outside the box than Vardy (who almost never tries) but that's about it. 

 

Kane has the worst shots to goals ratio of any player in the top six goal scorers in the Premier League this year. You'll struggle to find anyone other than Messi and Ronaldo that took more shots than Kane anywhere in Europe this year. 

 

Tottenham's constant waves of attack with him set up to be the focal point flatter him, statistically, but he's actually exceptionally wasteful.

 

He offers little by way of key passes and has managed three assists all season. 

 

I'd stop a long way short of calling him crap, obviously, he's a very good striker but the idea that he's head shoulders above any other England player is statistically disproveable (I may have just made up a word) without any need for opinions or bias. 

 

England - Southgate in particular - need to get over their cult of Harry (the new cult of Rooney) if they want to actually be successful. 

 

That or clone Eriksen, Son and Co' and make them English. 

[ScouseFox]

the defence and the attack could both be really good if he chooses the right options. that bit in the middle is horrific though. Henderson and dier. lord help us.

 

think I went on a rant in some other thread about 6 months ago that we've got some of, if not the best, players in the prem if not europe in at least 3 or 4 positions, we've just got no depth to form a whole team of good players. walker, stones, sterling, alli and kane are all genuinely world class. 

 

think it's a pretty good squad. it was never going to be amazing because we don't have enough amazing players. but we can make a first eleven (with maybe 2 or 3 subs) that could go deep into a tournament no problem. 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

We'd be bonkers to not play Kane and Vardy together.

[Finnegan]

Just now, ScouseFox said:

the defence and the attack could both be really good if he chooses the right options. that bit in the middle is horrific though. Henderson and dier. lord help us.

 

think I went on a rant in some other thread about 6 months ago that we've got some of, if not the best, players in the prem if not europe in at least 3 or 4 positions, we've just got no depth to form a whole team of good players. walker, stones, sterling, alli and kane are all genuinely world class. 

 

think it's a pretty good squad. it was never going to be amazing because we don't have enough amazing players. but we can make a first eleven (with maybe 2 or 3 subs) that could go deep into a tournament no problem. 

 

 

Deep in to the tournament being the last sixteen like? 

 

 

[Turbogre]

Leon Bailey
Sancho
lascelles

Lookman

tarkowski

Shelvey

 

Should all be there. 

[ScouseFox]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Deep in to the tournament being the last sixteen like? 

 

 

well yeah probably but it does have potential to do good things. 

 

like I said I think we've got more world class players who're in a prolonged period of great form than we have had since probably the '06 "golden generation". but it obviously all depends on how we set up, who we actually start etc. and the draw and the rest of it. 

 

pretty confident we will get to at least the last 8 though. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

We ain't gonna win it but i'd be disappointed with anything shy of quarters with the fixtures we do and could have.

[AKCJ]

39 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It's not really, is it? Let's be honest. We just like to say things like that because we think we're being too biased if we recognise Vardy and Mahrez as being legitimately world class. 

 

We cry when pundits don't give us recognition then we fall in to the same traps.

 

Kane is an outright penalty box poacher, his contribution is pretty much exclusively finishing. He's better at shooting from outside the box than Vardy (who almost never tries) but that's about it. 

 

Kane has the worst shots to goals ratio of any player in the top six goal scorers in the Premier League this year. You'll struggle to find anyone other than Messi and Ronaldo that took more shots than Kane anywhere in Europe this year. 

 

Tottenham's constant waves of attack with him set up to be the focal point flatter him, statistically, but he's actually exceptionally wasteful.

 

He offers little by way of key passes and has managed three assists all season. 

 

I'd stop a long way short of calling him crap, obviously, he's a very good striker but the idea that he's head shoulders above any other England player is statistically disproveable (I may have just made up a word) without any need for opinions or bias. 

 

England - Southgate in particular - need to get over their cult of Harry (the new cult of Rooney) if they want to actually be successful. 

 

That or clone Eriksen, Son and Co' and make them English. 

Vardy's a sensational striker. No denying.

 

Kane is better. No denying.

[Finnegan]

20 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Vardy's a sensational striker. No denying.

 

Kane is better. No denying.

 

But based on what? 

 

Seriously now, other than reputation and hype, what are you actually basing your view on the two of them on? 

 

You believe you SHOULD think Kane is better, you know that Kane broke record for quantity this season and that Vardy didn't, yes sure. 

 

But by what measurable criteria is Harry Kane actually better than Jamie Vardy? Tottenham are measurably better than Leicester, definitely, hence a higher number of goals, points, chances, etc. 

 

And don't give me that "statistics aren't everything, sometimes you just KNOW a player is better!" stuff because that's nonsense. It's just rubbish chucked around by people like Shearer and Owen who were undoubtedly great at sport but clearly aren't exactly genius academics. 

 

Kane is great by the way, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. But Vardy's record this season has been frankly terrifying, especially given how poor we've been for large parts. 

 

How many strikers in Europe with more than fifteen goals to their name this year can boast a <4 attemptsper goals ratio? 

 

Now that he's leaving, we've all finally come to give Riyad his dues. We need to stop viewing Vardy as a plucky non league over achiever and acknowledge that he's legitimately one of the best strikers in the world. I'm being serious really. 

Edited 16 May 2018 by Finnegan

[ScouseFox]

we are a much better team with vardy playing and not kane but it's a moot point, kane is our captain (is he?) and he will be the first name on the team sheet, play for 90 minutes no matter what and probably spend his whole time getting in the way. 

 

the friendly in march, can't remember who we played but it might've been Italy, where vardy scored and kane was injured was one of those times that we have looked actually quite enjoyable to watch going forward. the movement and pace on the break from the likes of vardy, sterling, rashford, lingard and even alli suits THE TEAM much better than kane playing. teams like man city and Liverpool are the model. they don't have a number 9 so to speak, they have a ridiculous wealth of talent who all interchange and all cause absolute havoc to opposition defences. which we could have if we went with a line up like rashford/lingard, alli & sterling behind vardy. we'd drag any team in the world all over the shop. 

[Finnegan]

Just to add a tiny bit more perspective - if Harry Kane had Jamie Vardy's economy he'd have scored 51.8 Premier League goals this season. 

 

Even when you adjust a little for the fact that more of Kane's shots will have been punts from outside the box, that's staggering. 

 

Conversely, if Vardy had Kane's economy he'd have scored 11.6. 

 

 

Edited 16 May 2018 by Finnegan

[AKCJ]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But based on what? 

 

Seriously now, other than reputation and hype, what are you actually basing your view on the two of them on? 

 

You believe you SHOULD think Kane is better, you know that Kane broke record for quantity this season and that Vardy didn't, yes sure. 

 

But by what measurable criteria is Harry Kane actually better than Jamie Vardy? Tottenham are measurably better than Leicester, definitely, hence a higher number of goals, points, chances, etc. 

 

And don't give me that "statistics aren't everything, sometimes you just KNOW a player is better!" stuff because that's nonsense. It's just rubbish chucked around by people like Shearer and Owen who were undoubtedly great at sport but clearly aren't exactly genius academics. 

 

Kane is great by the way, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. But Vardy's record this season has been frankly terrifying, especially given how poor we've been for large parts. 

 

How many strikers in Europe with more than fifteen goals to their name this year can boast a <4 attemptsper goals ratio? 

 

Now that he's leaving, we've all finally come to give Riyad his dues. We need to stop viewing Vardy as a plucky non league over achiever and acknowledge that he's legitimately one of the best strikers in the world. I'm being serious really. 

 

Based on the fact Kane is consistently scoring goals at the highest level at world class rates. Come of it mate. You're trolling here, surely?

[Tielemans63]

1 hour ago, Turbogre said:

Leon Bailey
Sancho
lascelles

Lookman

tarkowski

Shelvey

 

Should all be there. 

Bailey's not actually eligible for England mate, I don't think. 

 

The others I agree with though. I can kind of understand Cahill as he's leadership material and he might be a good pick for what he brings off the pitch as much as on it. Welbeck is just a a waste of a pick though, it's not even as though he offers something completely different.

 

As you say, a guy like Sancho, in red hot form would surely be a much more valuable pick. 

 

Other than that, I don't think it's too bad a squad. No point in taking Wilshere as his body wouldn't cope with the stress of several games in quick succession and Shelvey is a bit of a dickhead isn't he?

Edited 16 May 2018 by Paddy.

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Based on the fact Kane is consistently scoring goals at the highest level at world class rates. Come of it mate. You're trolling here, surely?

 

Harry Kane has the worst conversion out of the top six goalscorers in the Premier league.

 

I'm not trolling you, I'm piling up quite a large stack of evidence and all I'm getting back is "yeah but Kane is better."

 

I was blatantly trolling when I tried to have this discussion on the official fifa forums because I knew a whole bunch of incredulous twelve year old wouldn't be able to get their heads round the idea that Kane's goalscoring record is as much Eriksen, Ali, Son, Dier, Lamela and everyone else's record as it is his.

 

His goalscoring record is brilliant but it's a reflection just as much on Tottenham as him as its largely due to weight of numbers not accuracy. 

 

I figured on here I'd find a few more people less brainwashed by the Sky sports machine who could look at Vardy's track record and judge it on its merit. 

 

Comparing a Tottenham player to a Leicester player on simply "number of goals" is silly. It's like comparing a heavyweight to a welterweight. In most seasons a Tottenham striker is going to score more goals than a Leicester striker. That's why you look at economy and averages to level the field. 

 

It's like Wilfred. No Man City or Tottenham or Liverpool player is going to make as many tackles as Ndidi because they keep the ball more than we do. Rubbish teams will always have better tackling stats and good ones will always score more goals. 

 

 

Edited 16 May 2018 by Finnegan

[RowlattsFox]

Vardy against anyone good and Kane against anyone who sits men behind the ball. I’d love to play them together but I don’t see how we fit our creative midfield players in the same side as 2 strikers. 

 

You could maybe have Sterling and Ali has part of the central 3 alongside Henderson or Dier against Panama and Tunisia and play both vardy and Kane ahead of them but you can’t do that against anyone half decent. 

 

Vardy needs service, he’s exceptional with the service he gets but it’s needs to be the right sort generally although he’s been much more varied this season. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

think cahill was the right call, would've gambled with someone like Lookman rather than Welbeck though, I know he puts a shift in but he offers nothing quality wise

[AKCJ]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Harry Kane has the worst conversion out of the top six goalscorers in the Premier league.

 

I'm not trolling you, I'm piling up quite a large stack of evidence and all I'm getting back is "yeah but Kane is better."

 

I was blatantly trolling when I tried to have this discussion on the official fifa forums because I knew a whole bunch of incredulous twelve year old wouldn't be able to get their heads round the idea that Kane's goalscoring record is as much Eriksen, Ali, Son, Dier, Lamela and everyone else's record as it is his.

 

His goalscoring record is brilliant but it's a reflection just as much on Tottenham as him as its largely due to weight of numbers not accuracy. 

The only evidence I'm seeing is the whole shots conversion thing.

 

Very impressive on Vardy's part but Vardy has been largely anonymous for large parts of our games this season whereas absolutely everything goes through Kane and that's why Spurs are in the Champions League despite playing 38 away games this season.

 

Oh and Harry Kane would score more for us than Jamie Vardy would score for Spurs

Edited 16 May 2018 by AKCJ

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

The only evidence I'm seeing is the whole shots conversion thing.

 

Very impressive on Vardy's part but Vardy has been largely anonymous for large parts of our games this season whereas absolutely everything goes through Kane and that's why Spurs are in the Champions League despite playing 38 away games this season.

 

Everything goes through Kane and Vardy is just a finisher? 

 

Alright, that's why Kane has made 657 passes this season compared to Eriksen 2258, Ali 1251(thats insanely low, what's he been playing at?) , Dier 2248, Dembele 1422 (in half as many minutes as Kane or Ali.)

 

Probably should have done that per 90 minutes as it'd make my point even more but I'm getting lazy now as I want to go make a cuppa and put my feet up. 

 

Point is the same though, that's rubbish. Kane isn't a playmaker, he's there to finish and he does sure. But he's not exactly Mauro Icardi is he? Mauro is probably the most Kane like player I can think of and as far as I'm aware has an infinitely better economy. 

 

Which is brilliant because he's not likely to start for Argentina haha. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

 

think i'd go for something along this, only worry with this would be delph as a wing back, but i just dont fancy either rose or young, both are shite

Edited 16 May 2018 by The Horse's Mouth

[Stinkenzo]

1 hour ago, kingfox said:

Experience over form rules again

I hate this argument so much. We play internationals over two years to mould a team together, to build chemistry. This is not the time nor place to just call up anyone who had a good month. Just done a very quick look at some stat websites to try and find in form English players and came across Joel Ward, Wan Bissaka and James Tomkins, Dom Solanke to name a few. Would you genuinely prefer a Crystal Palace backline instead of the usual Cahill/Stones etc.? Bare in mind there will have been numberous stages this season where they will have been utter shit. Its not unusual to see a number of players in Cahill's position (been around a long time, ageing) to get drifted out after a major tournament. See Rooney/Milner and slowly Joe Hart after Euro 2016.

 

The keeper situation tickles me too. Joe Hart doesn't particularly deserve a place but the abuse he gets is unwarranted, and it is always made out that Butland/Pickford/Pope are absolutely streets ahead of him. As it happens 3 of those 4 play for clubs with some of the highest amount of goals conceded this season. Pickford im certain was poor at best at the start of the season. Butland shipped quite a lot too. Then you're looking at a situation where your best GK this season is someone nobody had heard of 8 months ago. There is a whopping 9 caps between our 3 chosen GKs, that must be a record low to take to a tournament finals!? Just like for club it is important for your keeper and defence to have a good understanding, it would be so risky to chuck Pope in there.

 

The only names that underwhelm me there are Delph, who is picked in a position I think he's rarely played this season and already lacks creativity/quality, an Welbeck.

[Bert]

Play Kane as number 10 as he always drops deep and Vardy as the main striker.