Facecloth Posted 3 February 2019 Share Posted 3 February 2019 1 hour ago, Countryfox said: Fairly straightforward. Toddy is accusing ‘grey haired’ people of ruining the future of their children and grandchildren by voting to leave ... which is basically bolox. And I was trying to point this out in a sort of jokey non aggressive manner ... until you poked your big hooter in. But you're not are you, you saying someone might in future say something about toddy that toddy hasn't said himself. Now if you'd said in future people might say the same about toddy as toddy is saying now, it's make sense. In the end you're the one talking bollocks, not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 3 February 2019 Share Posted 3 February 2019 1 hour ago, Toddybad said: Tbf I'm probably putting a spin on the conversations happening within my own family where old leavers can't adequately explain their choices, and have no clue about any facts /evidence /numbers beyond a few beliefs they have that are demonstrably false. You can imagine the sort of relative I am in these circumstances ?? Yeah I have one or two annoying twerps in my family too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 3 February 2019 Share Posted 3 February 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Strokes said: Yeah I have one or two annoying twerps in my family too..... ? Edited 3 February 2019 by Toddybad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 3 February 2019 Share Posted 3 February 2019 9 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Two years ago, I would have been surprised at how disconnected from the reality people are. My expectations then were that it would become apparent that (a) we wouldn't get a good deal with the EU; and (b) No Deal would be disastrous. My hope was that this would cause many voters to rethink and to switch either to Remain or, at worst, to Soft Brexit. It has been clear for months that my negative expectations about deal/no deal were justified - and that my hope that people would change their thinking in the light of reality was NOT justified. A poll was just quoted on Marr. Can't remember exact figures but approx. 42% want No Deal, 43% want a second referendum. Polls consistently show a lot of support for No Deal. So, people being disconnected from the reality doesn't surprise me now. As for WHY people are disconnected from the reality, I'd say: - Politics/economics in general is complicated and only a small minority have sufficient time and interest to gain a decent understanding; - The functioning of the EU and Brexit is particularly complicated and people (on all sides) have a particularly low level of understanding; - In recent years, there's been a big increase in cynicism about the trustworthiness of politicians & other public figures (business people, specialist experts, journalists etc.)....and a profusion of extra info, much of unreliable/partisan For me, that combination of factors explains why few people have changed their minds and support for No Deal is high. I'm sure a lot of people would relate to Izzy's comment for that reason: it's just noise, until it affects them personally. The problem with No Deal is that most people would not be affected until AFTER No Deal - and by then it'd be too late to avoid many of the disastrous impacts, for months, probably years. I'm still hopeful that No Deal will be avoided, but who knows? I don't mean these comments to be insulting to Izzy, to Leave voters or to those supporting No Deal. I don't understand every aspect of politics/EU/Brexit myself and if I have a better understanding than most, that's only because, unlike most people, I find politics, economics and the EU very interesting so I've read and thought about it a lot. That's not to do with being "thick" or "smart". There are loads of important things that I know sod all about: technology, house construction, plumbing/electrics, science etc. I know sod all about them because I've not had sufficient interest to learn about them. It's not because I'm thick, I'm just ignorant because time is limited and I've had other priorities....and a lot of people have less time and more stress in their lives than I have. Also, although that ignorance makes me vulnerable to cowboy builders/electricians/plumbers or whatever, I'm confident that most such tradespeople are competent and trustworthy. I'd have to be unlucky to get conned. Whereas a lot of people believe that MOST politicians and other public figures are dishonest, part of the reason why it's "just noise" when they're told about the risks of No Deal etc. How we restore some trust in politics and other parts of public life are a big question - and our democracy and future security are at risk if we don't. This situation also shows just what a bad idea it was to decide such an important issue by a 50%+1 referendum, when the issue was so complicated, a lot of people felt deeply insecure and trust in politicians/big business/experts was so low. I say that as someone who quite welcomed the referendum at the time. We'd had decades of ill-informed carping about the EU and I naively imagined we could have a proper, informed public debate. I was wrong, big time! Quite possibly the nicest put down I've ever received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 3 February 2019 Share Posted 3 February 2019 2 minutes ago, Izzy said: Quite possibly the nicest put down I've ever received Genuinely not intended to be a put-down at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47047719 ****ing embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 16 hours ago, Facecloth said: you saying someone might in future say something about toddy that toddy hasn't said himself. So what ? ... what exactly does it matter who says what about who ?? ... the original post was to make a point about an opinion that I thought was wrong ... and to be honest we have moved on from that ... what is the big deal ?? How does this affect you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 6 minutes ago, Countryfox said: So what ? ... what exactly does it matter who says what about who ?? ... the original post was to make a point about an opinion that I thought was wrong ... and to be honest we have moved on from that ... what is the big deal ?? How does this affect you ? WTF are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 Video footage has emerged of the domestic life of @Countryfox and @Facecloth: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Video footage has emerged of the domestic life of @Countryfox and @Facecloth: I'm not arguing, I'm just confused by what point he's trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 4 minutes ago, Facecloth said: I'm not arguing, I'm just confused by what point he's trying to make. I understand. The bloke's head has been fried by too much time on Caribbean beaches. Needs to invest in an orange sunhat to match his orange shorts, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 18 minutes ago, Facecloth said: I'm not arguing, I'm just confused by what point he's trying to make. FFS ! ... the point is that not everyone with a fookin grey hair is thick and voted to leave ! ... and one day Tod will be old too !! What is fookin hard to understand about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 Well, I think we've all learned the importance of accurate punctuation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 39 minutes ago, bovril said: Well, I think we've all learned the importance of accurate punctuation. I maintain it was what leave voters voted for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 1 hour ago, Countryfox said: FFS ! ... the point is that not everyone with a fookin grey hair is thick and voted to leave ! ... and one day Tod will be old too !! What is fookin hard to understand about that. I'll be just for men-ing so the selfish leaver superpower won't apply ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 6 hours ago, Innovindil said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47047719 ****ing embarrassing. Why embarrassing? Illegal certainly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 (edited) I don't understand this backstop thing. So there's a failsafe: if agreements fail with the EU, Northern Ireland stays in the EU's common market. This means there's no hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland. And having no hard border is very arguably the linchpin of peace in Northern Ireland. But the Tories aren't happy with this and refuse to sign off on any deal that has the backstop in it? What's May going to go and do now? Remove the backstop, have a hard border, and ignite another civil war in Northern Ireland and resurrect the IRA? Edited 4 February 2019 by Foxxed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 1 hour ago, bovril said: Well, I think we've all learned the importance of accurate punctuation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 27 minutes ago, Foxxed said: I don't understand this backstop thing. So there's a failsafe: if agreements fail with the EU, Northern Ireland stays in the EU's common market. This means there's no hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland. And having no hard border is very arguably the linchpin of peace in Northern Ireland. But the Tories aren't happy with this and refuse to sign off on any deal that has the backstop in it? What's May going to go and do now? Remove the backstop and ignite another civil war in Northern Ireland and resurrect the IRA? The only alternative to the backstop is a full customs union, realistically. The ERG are idiots of the highest order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 2 minutes ago, Toddybad said: The only alternative to the backstop is a full customs union, realistically. The ERG are idiots of the highest order. It’s not just ERG voting against the deal, if it was the deal would have sailed through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 26 minutes ago, Strokes said: It’s not just ERG voting against the deal, if it was the deal would have sailed through. No, but he asked specifically about the backstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 8 minutes ago, Toddybad said: The only alternative to the backstop is a full customs union, realistically. The ERG are idiots of the highest order. Are the Tories against the backstop because of the sea change it would bring? GB reacts to an economic world outside the Common Market. Northern Ireland, to an economic world inside the Common Market. They'd hardly be the same country. It would be the beginning of end of the Union. And if we have no backstop, then we have a hard border: aka a civil war in Northern Ireland again. Briliian choices. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderbyFox Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 1 hour ago, Foxxed said: I don't understand this backstop thing. So there's a failsafe: if agreements fail with the EU, Northern Ireland stays in the EU's common market. This means there's no hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland. And having no hard border is very arguably the linchpin of peace in Northern Ireland. But the Tories aren't happy with this and refuse to sign off on any deal that has the backstop in it? What's May going to go and do now? Remove the backstop and ignite another civil war in Northern Ireland and resurrect the IRA? It's the DUP that are dead against the Backstop as well as the ERG isn't it? If May loses them then she has even less of a functioning government than she has now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 (edited) Edit: Nevermind. Edited 4 February 2019 by Foxxed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 4 February 2019 Share Posted 4 February 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said: It's the DUP that are dead against the Backstop as well as the ERG isn't it? If May loses them then she has even less of a functioning government than she has now Edit: Apparently the backstop would mean a UK wide common market. Edited 4 February 2019 by Foxxed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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