Also in the news

[yorkie1999]

21 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Germany are in the customs union and are not free to sign trade agreements. Unless I’m missing something.

We're still in the customs union, for now, yet we seem to be signing agreements. Aaaargh politics.

Edited 15 February 2019 by yorkie1999

[urban.spaceman]

42 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Aaaargh politics.

This has been my philosophy for the last 10 years. 

[Wymsey]

Over 200,000 signatures signed (clicked on the link via Leicester Mercury website, but personally haven't signed as the subject debate has only been informed to the public over the past couple of days).

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231521?fbclid=IwAR3nsFFWFiMBdFli1YpCOHSD3NIa-iVN7Zh9IOYGLsEvdE77Ll-vIyQe_DA

 

Am not sure what's the best solution for this young woman's situation.

But it can be recommended if she's able to return to the UK, there should be certain strict restrictions in place to potentially avoid contact with possible terrorist-supporting individuals and certainly a de-radicalisation programme mentioned by a couple of other posters.

Edited 15 February 2019 by Wymeswold fox

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

They just interviewed one of the kids protesting about the climate on the radio.

 

Presenter: what would you say to the government who are saying that you’re missing out on extremely important school time and potentially damaging your education?

Kid: Well, what would be the point of becoming highly educated if the government aren’t going to bother listening to highly educated people?

 

On. Point.

[urban.spaceman]

One down, just a few thousand more to go...

 

He’s only been Pope six years. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Countryfox]

4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FafVtHWn4X8

[Izzy]

49 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Ah, that old "I went on holiday and accidentally joined ISIS" chestnut.

 

We've all been guilty of that - especially after a few beers 

[Guest MattP]

14 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

That's up there with the Jihadi who claimed he went to Afghanistan to do a computer course.

[Guest MattP]

The shadow education secretary

 

[urban.spaceman]

23 hours ago, Izzy said:

Ah, that old "I went on holiday and accidentally joined ISIS" chestnut.

 

We've all been guilty of that - especially after a few beers 

 

9 hours ago, MattP said:

That's up there with the Jihadi who claimed he went to Afghanistan to do a computer course.

One of my favourite episodes of Monty Python’s Flying Circus is Mr Pither, who goes on a cycling tour of Cornwall and accidentally ends up in against a firing squad in the Soviet Union. 

 

I suspect thats what happened here, too. 

Edited 17 February 2019 by urban.spaceman

[urban.spaceman]

 

Initial thoughts:

- no regrets about anything. 

- only left because her children died (though there’s no evidence either of them extisted yet)

- had seen all the videos of beheadings and was absolutely fine with it

- “its Islamically allowed”

- she says she’s glad she did go to Isis because that’s where she met her husband and she wouldn’t have met anyone like him in the UK (because he’s a ****ing terrorist love)

- the fact she’s so confident that there’s no evidence that she did anything wrong should surely set alarm bells ringing

- there may still be an argument that she was “groomed” but there MUST be questions about the beliefs and ideology of her family, as well as the community in Bethnal Green. 

 

As far as I’m she surrendered her rights to live in the UK when she left. She never wanted to be “one of us” and still has a callous attitude towards non-Muslims/wrong Muslims. 

 

She’s a terrorist with no remorse and therefore deserves no sympathy or help. Make an example of her; take her child into care and never let her back in. 

[Kopfkino]

Tbh I find it a little disconcerting that people think the UK can just wash its hands of its international responsibilities. Whether you like it or not she's a British citizen, has rights, but tbh most importantly she is our responsibility. 

[Strokes]

54 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Tbh I find it a little disconcerting that people think the UK can just wash its hands of its international responsibilities. Whether you like it or not she's a British citizen, has rights, but tbh most importantly she is our responsibility. 

As much as it goes against my instincts, I agree. She is a British national and if she has committed an offence in or against this country, she should face justice here. 

[Salisbury Fox]

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

Tbh I find it a little disconcerting that people think the UK can just wash its hands of its international responsibilities. Whether you like it or not she's a British citizen, has rights, but tbh most importantly she is our responsibility. 

Agreed, although I don't feel we should go out of our way to repatriate her by putting anyone in danger. 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

Tbh I find it a little disconcerting that people think the UK can just wash its hands of its international responsibilities. Whether you like it or not she's a British citizen, has rights, but tbh most importantly she is our responsibility. 

I agree, you cannot render somebody stateless even if it seems like the obvious thing to do, it's not fair on Syria and the genuine refugees who live around her. Personally, I think if it came to a situation of her coming back, her child gets immediately put into social care and she faces investigation and trial. I don't for one moment believe she'd be allowed to come back and slot back into a normal life? That would be madness.  

[Realist Guy In The Room]

9 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

Agreed, although I don't feel we should go out of our way to repatriate her by putting anyone in danger. 

She’s a pregnant woman, not John Matrix.

[Salisbury Fox]

Just now, Realist Guy In The Room said:

She’s a pregnant woman, not John Matrix.

Oh yeah forgot, we can just pop in the maternity ward and pick her up.  If you were a member of the consular staff would you want to go into Syria to pick her up? 

[ARTY_FOX]

So let’s say they let her in, that sets the precedent for others that want to come back. They then commit an act of terrorism here where even one person is killed. How do the people responsible for these people coming back then feel? She has no remorse, she’s not bothered about the murders she should stay there. 

Edited 18 February 2019 by ARTY_FOX

[Guest MattP]

When was the last time a group of MP's resigned from a major political party because of the bigotry in it?

 

In 2019 that's pretty incredible.

 

I think this is going to get very nasty over the next few weeks and months. 

[AKCJ]

15 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Tbh I find it a little disconcerting that people think the UK can just wash its hands of its international responsibilities. Whether you like it or not she's a British citizen, has rights, but tbh most importantly she is our responsibility. 

For me, she lost her rights when she decided to join an international terrorist organisation that's famous for robbing other people of basic human rights.

 

 

Edited 18 February 2019 by AKCJ

[stripeyfox]

22 hours ago, MattP said:

The shadow education secretary

 

maybe she should just ditch trying to be a vegetarian. It really doesn't seem like shes cut out for it!
 

[davieG]

Seven MPs have resigned from the Labour Party in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and anti-Semitism.

The seven - who are calling themselves the Independent group are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey.

Ms Berger said Labour had become institutionally anti-Semitic and she was "embarrassed and ashamed" to stay in the party.

Mr Leslie said the party had been "hijacked" by the far left.

[davieG]

Shamima Begum: Lawyer says IS teenager 'damaged' by ordeal
51 minutes ago

Ms Begum was 15 and living in Bethnal Green, London, when she left the UK in 2015

 

Shamima Begum - the UK schoolgirl who joined the Islamic State group in Syria but now wants to come home - is "damaged" and will need mental health support, her family's lawyer has said.

Tasnime Akunjee also told the BBC that her family are prepared to raise her newborn baby "away from IS thinking".

Ms Begum, now 19, left Bethnal Green four years ago aged 15.

 

She was found in a Syrian refugee camp last week and has since given birth to a boy. She wants to return to the UK.

In an interview with Sky News at the weekend, Ms Begum said she did not regret travelling to Syria, but that "people should have sympathy" towards her.

On Monday, lawyer Mr Akunjee told BBC Breakfast that Ms Begum - who is legally a UK citizen - had still not been in contact with her family.

He said the family are trying to get the government to provide travel documents for Ms Begum and her newborn son - who he said has a right to British citizenship.

"Her family will always want to bring their child home and bring her to safety, and particularly the innocent grandchild that now is in existence," said Mr Akunjee.

"The family fully expect her to be quite damaged and so they would want an assessment around Shamima, and also as much help around her mental health and recalibration effectively into normal thinking as possible.

"In terms of any criminal proceedings, that's something she invariably will face depending on what evidence is against her.

He added: "Clearly the family are most concerned not just to get her away [from IS] now but, as of yesterday, to make sure their grandchild - her child - is not influenced by that sort of thinking."

Ms Begum left Bethnal Green in February 2015 with two other schoolgirls, Kadiza Sultana and Amira Abase.

Kadiza is thought to have died when a house was blown up, and the fate of Amira is unknown.

Lawyer Mr Akunjee also called for an "urgent inquiry" into how Ms Begum and the other schoolgirls were able to travel to Syria.

Ms Begum was tracked down by the Times newspaper last week and was found to be nine months pregnant.

At the weekend, it was reported that she had given birth.

In an interview with Sky News, she said: "People should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through."

Ms Begum said she escaped from Baghuz, Islamic State's last stronghold in eastern Syria, two weeks ago.

Her husband, a Dutch convert to Islam, is thought to have surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters.

There has been widespread debate over whether Ms Begum should be stopped from returning to the UK.

Under international law, the UK is obliged to let back in a Briton without the claim to another nationality.

But the government does not have consular staff in Syria, and says it will not risk any lives to help Britons who have joined a banned terrorist group.

If Ms Begum is able to reach a British consulate in a recognised country, it is thought security chiefs could "manage" her return.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid wrote a comment piece in the Sunday Times and said he would "not hesitate" to prevent the return of Britons who travelled to join IS.

[Innovindil]

22 minutes ago, davieG said:

Shamima Begum: Lawyer says IS teenager 'damaged' by ordeal
51 minutes ago

Ms Begum was 15 and living in Bethnal Green, London, when she left the UK in 2015

 

Shamima Begum - the UK schoolgirl who joined the Islamic State group in Syria but now wants to come home - is "damaged" and will need mental health support, her family's lawyer has said.

Tasnime Akunjee also told the BBC that her family are prepared to raise her newborn baby "away from IS thinking".

Ms Begum, now 19, left Bethnal Green four years ago aged 15.

 

She was found in a Syrian refugee camp last week and has since given birth to a boy. She wants to return to the UK.

In an interview with Sky News at the weekend, Ms Begum said she did not regret travelling to Syria, but that "people should have sympathy" towards her.

On Monday, lawyer Mr Akunjee told BBC Breakfast that Ms Begum - who is legally a UK citizen - had still not been in contact with her family.

He said the family are trying to get the government to provide travel documents for Ms Begum and her newborn son - who he said has a right to British citizenship.

"Her family will always want to bring their child home and bring her to safety, and particularly the innocent grandchild that now is in existence," said Mr Akunjee.

"The family fully expect her to be quite damaged and so they would want an assessment around Shamima, and also as much help around her mental health and recalibration effectively into normal thinking as possible.

"In terms of any criminal proceedings, that's something she invariably will face depending on what evidence is against her.

He added: "Clearly the family are most concerned not just to get her away [from IS] now but, as of yesterday, to make sure their grandchild - her child - is not influenced by that sort of thinking."

Ms Begum left Bethnal Green in February 2015 with two other schoolgirls, Kadiza Sultana and Amira Abase.

Kadiza is thought to have died when a house was blown up, and the fate of Amira is unknown.

Lawyer Mr Akunjee also called for an "urgent inquiry" into how Ms Begum and the other schoolgirls were able to travel to Syria.

Ms Begum was tracked down by the Times newspaper last week and was found to be nine months pregnant.

At the weekend, it was reported that she had given birth.

In an interview with Sky News, she said: "People should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through."

Ms Begum said she escaped from Baghuz, Islamic State's last stronghold in eastern Syria, two weeks ago.

Her husband, a Dutch convert to Islam, is thought to have surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters.

There has been widespread debate over whether Ms Begum should be stopped from returning to the UK.

Under international law, the UK is obliged to let back in a Briton without the claim to another nationality.

But the government does not have consular staff in Syria, and says it will not risk any lives to help Britons who have joined a banned terrorist group.

If Ms Begum is able to reach a British consulate in a recognised country, it is thought security chiefs could "manage" her return.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid wrote a comment piece in the Sunday Times and said he would "not hesitate" to prevent the return of Britons who travelled to join IS.

Yeah...... Naaaaah.