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[Guest]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not an economist, so I can't give an opinion on that, but I object in principle to a tax that taxes money that has already been taxed once.

 

As a matter of interest, do other countries have VAT?

All European countries do. The rate is higher in France (TVA)  than in the UK for example but there are low rates for certain categories (like building).

 

I think your double tax thoughts are a little out. Sure it's another tax but that's like saying property tax or local tax or in fact any tax are double/triple taxes. We have multiple taxes and income tax is just one of many.

 

VAT is generally seen as  a fair tax and an efficient tax. People on low income don't spend as much on goods with VAT, the rich spend more so pay more. 

 

Removing a VAT would leave a massive whole in the government's finances .

 

 

46 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Because people get taxed on their wages and then get taxed when they spend those wages? Not sure what's confusing honestly. 

 

Perhaps it's confusing because in reality we have many taxes, so why call it a double tax?

 

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Nonsense.

 

You are taxed when you earn it then taxed again when you spend what's left.

 

And you're taxed when you buy a house and you're taxed when you own a house and you're taxed when you have a car ....

[Foxin_Mad]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

They will be in for a shock if they are being paid via loans; HMRC are collecting back taxes as if they were salary

Well I hope the wosit gets stung to be honest. He should also be paying the correct amount for his children instead of doing up his own house.

[Grebfromgrebland]

All these Tories that want tax cuts can only mean one thing and that's more privatisation of anything and everything.

 

Will also mean no public services or NHS as the thinking will be that as we pay less tax we can afford to buy all the things that tax used to pay for.

 

Like police, nhs, libraries, schools, roads, jail's, mental health services, children's services.

 

You see, less tax means that you're on your own and you can afford it because that £2000 a year you save on tax will allow you to pay £250,000 for that operation that your child needs.

 

In addition you can pay for pot holes on the motor way to be fixed. Because you've paid a bit less tax.

 

This is what brexit is, and the Tory party can feel the end game coming which has taken 30 years to get to this point. 

 

They will push for brexit no matter the cost because the financial rewards are so big that they will lie on prime time tv, to your face even threaten to shut down parliament to get this through.

 

Billions of pounds are at stake here for the winners and hundreds of millions have been spent with money pouring on from Russia and America to push this through. 

 

And if it works here this process for using the media to create hate to get votes will be used as a template around the world.

[Innovindil]

16 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

All these Tories that want tax cuts can only mean one thing and that's more privatisation of anything and everything.

 

Will also mean no public services or NHS as the thinking will be that as we pay less tax we can afford to buy all the things that tax used to pay for.

 

Like police, nhs, libraries, schools, roads, jail's, mental health services, children's services.

 

You see, less tax means that you're on your own and you can afford it because that £2000 a year you save on tax will allow you to pay £250,000 for that operation that your child needs.

 

In addition you can pay for pot holes on the motor way to be fixed. Because you've paid a bit less tax.

 

This is what brexit is, and the Tory party can feel the end game coming which has taken 30 years to get to this point. 

 

They will push for brexit no matter the cost because the financial rewards are so big that they will lie on prime time tv, to your face even threaten to shut down parliament to get this through.

 

Billions of pounds are at stake here for the winners and hundreds of millions have been spent with money pouring on from Russia and America to push this through. 

 

And if it works here this process for using the media to create hate to get votes will be used as a template around the world.

Do you sell what you're on or is it personal use only? Genuinely curious. 

[Foxin_Mad]

22 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

All these Tories that want tax cuts can only mean one thing and that's more privatisation of anything and everything.

 

Will also mean no public services or NHS as the thinking will be that as we pay less tax we can afford to buy all the things that tax used to pay for.

 

Like police, nhs, libraries, schools, roads, jail's, mental health services, children's services.

 

You see, less tax means that you're on your own and you can afford it because that £2000 a year you save on tax will allow you to pay £250,000 for that operation that your child needs.

 

In addition you can pay for pot holes on the motor way to be fixed. Because you've paid a bit less tax.

 

This is what brexit is, and the Tory party can feel the end game coming which has taken 30 years to get to this point. 

 

They will push for brexit no matter the cost because the financial rewards are so big that they will lie on prime time tv, to your face even threaten to shut down parliament to get this through.

 

Billions of pounds are at stake here for the winners and hundreds of millions have been spent with money pouring on from Russia and America to push this through. 

 

And if it works here this process for using the media to create hate to get votes will be used as a template around the world.

But if Corbyn bankrupts the country we wont have any of these things anyway. Sadly we can magic up money.

 

State run banks, railways and utilities purchased at a price deemed fit by the Labour Party is no way to run a successful economy, how long till the money put runs out? I would imagine any moderately successful people will move away quite quickly.

 

I notice people always champion the Nordic model, they do of course realise that the Nordic model is more privatised (an a lot better) than our own I would hope. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/dec/18/private-healthcare-lessons-from-sweden

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20004508.2018.1429768

 

[theessexfox]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Nonsense.

 

You are taxed when you earn it then taxed again when you spend what's left.

Surely to make up the 16% hole in public finances, there would just be higher income tax anyway, so it amounts to nearly the same thing?

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Foxin_Mad said:

There are avoidance schemes for all I am sure.

 

Income Tax is avoided by a broader spectrum though, I think. 

 

I know an average person, with an average job who is a bit of a tit.

 

They claim their official earnings as 10k per year and get the reset paid in some kind of loan sorted by an accountant. They also do not pay the correct amount of Maintenance for their 2 children as a result.

 

I report to HMRC on the basis that their lifestyle does not correspond to their income. This must be happening quite a bit with self employed/small business owners. HMRC say everything is above board.

 

I know no-one on earth who can afford 3 news TV, new cars, new kitchen, new windows, new driveway on 10k a year! its a joke!

 

 

Plus he'll only be paying £2.95 a week NIC and yet still expect full nhs treatments.

[Kopfkino]

23 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

But if Corbyn bankrupts the country we wont have any of these things anyway. Sadly we can magic up money.

 

State run banks, railways and utilities purchased at a price deemed fit by the Labour Party is no way to run a successful economy, how long till the money put runs out? I would imagine any moderately successful people will move away quite quickly.

 

I notice people always champion the Nordic model, they do of course realise that the Nordic model is more privatised (an a lot better) than our own I would hope. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/dec/18/private-healthcare-lessons-from-sweden

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20004508.2018.1429768

 

Many many countries contract out health services to private providers in far greater numbers than us. The only reason it receives so much fake opposition here is the false belief in NHS exceptionalism. In fact about the only good consistently part of the NHS I've encountered was Macmillan, a service that counts in the privatisation figures. 

 

And also the Nordic countries have a famed progressive tax system with higher VAT with less exemptions than in the UK. Go figure, or maybe its because VAT is a good tax as part of a coherent tax strategy.

[Foxin_Mad]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Plus he'll only be paying £2.95 a week NIC and yet still expect full nhs treatments.

And a pension. I really hope it catches up with him at some point. 

[Foxin_Mad]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

Many many countries contract out health services to private providers in far greater numbers than us. The only reason it receives so much fake opposition here is the false belief in NHS exceptionalism. In fact about the only good consistently part of the NHS I've encountered was Macmillan, a service that counts in the privatisation figures. 

 

And also the Nordic countries have a famed progressive tax system with higher VAT with less exemptions than in the UK. Go figure, or maybe its because VAT is a good tax as part of a coherent tax strategy.

Very True Indeed.

 

Privatisation is not always bad. It can be done well, unfortunately most of the companies that run services in this country are awfully managed, and needlessly tied up in public sector red tape.

 

The railways have improved since the days of British Rail but are held back by the incompetence of the DfT and a broken franchising model. 

 

The NHS needs reform, Education needs reform not more money. 

 

I also strongly believe it is better to support people going through a bad time extensively financially rather than pick up the results in crime, drug abuse, physical harm which all have a much greater cost further down the line. 

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

Surely to make up the 16% hole in public finances, there would just be higher income tax anyway, so it amounts to nearly the same thing?

 

That would depend on whether the higher earners are taxed at the rate they should be or not. VAT seems like a Tory sort of tax, to me. 

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

That would depend on whether the higher earners are taxed at the rate they should be or not. VAT seems like a Tory sort of tax, to me. 

It’s an eu requirement isn’t it?

[Foxin_Mad]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

That would depend on whether the higher earners are taxed at the rate they should be or not. VAT seems like a Tory sort of tax, to me. 

Who gets to determine who 'should' be taxed at what rate? Jealous people in the Labour party?

 

The problem with high income tax is it very much negates the desire to work hard, to have aspiration and to better yourself. If you are getting to the point where the Labour government 'take and redistribute' what you are working a 40hr week for, really what is the point of having any aspiration to be better to earn more than the point at which you are defined  'THE EVIL RICH'....I might as well just sit and let someone else do it for me

 

The other question is will they pay it? will the loopholes be closed? Or will they just leave the UK? 

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s an eu requirement isn’t it?

 

Apparently, but not at the rate we charge it. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430504

[Foxin_Mad]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Apparently, but not at the rate we charge it. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430504

Most of the EU is similar or higher than ours:

 

https://taxfoundation.org/vat-rates-europe-2019/

 

Not that the benefits/pitfalls of VAT are a reasons to leave/remain. 

[String fellow]

So, no more free television licences for the over 75s. If the government actually wants to lose the next election, this is a great way to go about it. What next - no more free prescriptions for the over 60s? 

[yorkie1999]

22 minutes ago, String fellow said:

So, no more free television licences for the over 75s. If the government actually wants to lose the next election, this is a great way to go about it. What next - no more free prescriptions for the over 60s? 

Just about wipes out last years pension increase for them.

[Buce]

49 minutes ago, String fellow said:

So, no more free television licences for the over 75s. If the government actually wants to lose the next election, this is a great way to go about it. What next - no mor,e free prescriptions for the over 60s? 

 

I suspect you're joking but I think that it is a logical progressional for them to introduce means-testing on prescriptions for pensioners, to be eventually followed by means-tested State pensions.

 

They have just about pared social security benefits to the bone in the pursuit of ideological austerity - robbing pensioners is the only place left for this shameful government to go to pay for its tax cuts for the rich, once the myth of a Brexit dividend is exposed.

[Mike Oxlong]

 

[Facecloth]

6 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

Aside from the hilarity of someone saying Jeremy ****, was there really any need for "its usually men who say that" comment? You had a slip of the tongue, apologise and move on, no need make a sexist generalisation.

[Mike Oxlong]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Aside from the hilarity of someone saying Jeremy ****, was there really any need for "its usually men who say that" comment? You had a slip of the tongue, apologise and move on, no need make a sexist generalisation.

Poor attempt at deflection

 

What a c@nt 

[Heathrow fox]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Just about wipes out last years pension increase for them.

I think the council tax rises had done that already ☹️

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Aside from the hilarity of someone saying Jeremy ****, was there really any need for "its usually men who say that" comment? You had a slip of the tongue, apologise and move on, no need make a sexist generalisation.

From my experience it is pretty fair but I agree there's no need to even say it. I don't buy she's never said it before in her life either.

[Grebfromgrebland]

8 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

All these Tories that want tax cuts can only mean one thing and that's more privatisation of anything and everything.

 

Will also mean no public services or NHS as the thinking will be that as we pay less tax we can afford to buy all the things that tax used to pay for.

 

Like police, nhs, libraries, schools, roads, jail's, mental health services, children's services.

 

You see, less tax means that you're on your own and you can afford it because that £2000 a year you save on tax will allow you to pay £250,000 for that operation that your child needs.

 

In addition you can pay for pot holes on the motor way to be fixed. Because you've paid a bit less tax.

 

This is what brexit is, and the Tory party can feel the end game coming which has taken 30 years to get to this point. 

 

They will push for brexit no matter the cost because the financial rewards are so big that they will lie on prime time tv, to your face even threaten to shut down parliament to get this through.

 

Billions of pounds are at stake here for the winners and hundreds of millions have been spent with money pouring on from Russia and America to push this through. 

 

And if it works here this process for using the media to create hate to get votes will be used as a template around the world.

Sorry I've been watching The Virtues and feel down about the world. It's all too real.

[ealingfox]

Jeremy Cvnt