Strokes Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: On the flip side does anybody have any idea why Labour and Brexit would benefit so strongly from Javid being the Tory leader? I can't think of any reason why so many Conservative voters would go AWOL in that scenario... No idea, i like Javid and him or Hunt are the guys I would like to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 2 hours ago, Buce said: Imagine a Tory government ran by Bozo for five years in post hard-brexit-clusterfvck Britain. Then get yourself over to the Depression thread. Probably why it was sensible for parliament to actually pass May's deal. If what you say does happen the "revoke/secondref" crowd can't say they weren't warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 So there's a document saying we are nowhere near ready for an October Brexit been leaked and Boris can't remember if he's admitted before to taking cocaine or not. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-boris-johnson-poll-speech-tory-leadership-election-latest-a8954676.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-cocaine-drugs-speech-tory-leadership-campaign-launch-a8955051.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 59 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: So there's a document saying we are nowhere near ready for an October Brexit been leaked and Boris can't remember if he's admitted before to taking cocaine or not. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-boris-johnson-poll-speech-tory-leadership-election-latest-a8954676.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-cocaine-drugs-speech-tory-leadership-campaign-launch-a8955051.html The European Union must be seething with us to be honest. Granted another extension and all we've done is gone on holiday, forced the PM to resign and then go back on holiday. Patience for another extension is surely being severely tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: Probably why it was sensible for parliament to actually pass May's deal. We're in such a strange situation that it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the very deal that cost Mrs May her job could actually be the deal we end up with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said: So there's a document saying we are nowhere near ready for an October Brexit been leaked and Boris can't remember if he's admitted before to taking cocaine or not. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-boris-johnson-poll-speech-tory-leadership-election-latest-a8954676.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-cocaine-drugs-speech-tory-leadership-campaign-launch-a8955051.html That's drugs for you. Just say no, kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48591001 It was almost inevitably going to come to this, wasn't it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 32 minutes ago, purpleronnie said: We're in such a strange situation that it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the very deal that cost Mrs May her job could actually be the deal we end up with. It wouldn't surprise me one bit, new PM slightly tweeks something and gives the house an excuse to pass it through. The propaganda war after this will be as important as the negotiation for what follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hundreds Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 4 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said: Im still baffled how so many people can still vote for Labour. They have no clue on Brexit remain or leave, Corbyn is an absolute joker, their policies are based on fiction and magic unicorns. They should be annihilated in places like Stoke Because the alternative is Boris Johnson. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 (edited) More lies and Project Fear from the experts: No-deal Brexit will be 'commercial suicide', manufacturers tell MPs Industry draws link between politicians’ talk of crashing out of EU and firms losing clients. A no-deal Brexit will be “commercial suicide” with tens of thousands of jobs already lost in the UK because of the political uncertainty, manufacturing representatives have said. As Boris Johnson broke cover to launch his Conservative party leadership campaign, in which he repeated his pledge to leave the EU by 31 October, industry representatives were telling MPs that crashing out of the bloc was “economic vandalism”. Seamus Nevin, the chief economist with Make UK which represents some of the country’s largest manufacturers, said: “There is a direct link between politicians talking up the prospect of no deal and British firms losing customers overseas and British people losing jobs. “A no-deal Brexit would be nothing short of commercial suicide.” He told the House of Commons Brexit select committee that some businesses were already “downsizing or completely shutting down in the UK”. Some were very profitable and leaders in their sector, but were struggling because of the political uncertainty. Nevin said he was aware of one company, which he could not name because of a confidentiality agreement, that was planning to quit Britain. “That will result in several thousand job losses,” he said adding that a no-deal Brexit “would be nothing short of an act of economic vandalism” and “undo 25 years of economic progress and consign a generation of highly skilled workers to the scrapheap.” His assessment came as stark contrast to Johnson’s upbeat declaration that he would deliver Brexit and transform the UK into a powerhouse that would “go neck and neck with Germany” in manufacturing and technology. Johnson declared he would “stick up for every business in this country” but, in a mixed message, also declared he was not aiming for no deal but was prepared to leave the EU without a deal. “I think if we block it, we will face mortal retribution from the electorate,” he said. Businesses told MPs that a Halloween Brexit would be a disaster. Tim Rycroft, the chief operating officer with the Food and Drink Federation, said shortages of food would begin to appear within two weeks of a no-deal Brexit. Fresh fruit and vegetables would be held up on the Calais-Dover journey because of mandatory food health checks, but so too would processed chicken originating in the UK, he said. “We produce a lot of chicken but they are sent to [the] EU for processing and then re-imported.” Rycroft said other foodstuffs that would be affected would be bread and confectionary as the UK does not produce enough dried milk or high protein wheat. He said: “We will see selective shortages and probably unpredictably and that might go on for several weeks and potentially months after a no-deal exit.” he said. Nevin also challenged claims that the port of Calais would be able to deliver a frictionless Brexit in the event of a crash out. He told MPs the port had done a trial of sanitary and phytosanitary tests that would be mandatory on the EU side and this had led to delays of 25km. The Democratic Unionist party MP for east Antrim, Sammy Wilson, put it to him that the port of Calais had said it would be ready for no deal. Wilson asked Nevin: “So the assurances given by the mayor of Calais are not true?” “That’s correct,” Nevin replied. Edited 12 June 2019 by Buce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO1 Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 (edited) Confectionary! The Donald can help you guys out with that. A special Deal. http://hostesscakes.com/products The ships are coming. The snack cake Golden Child. Edited 12 June 2019 by SO1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: The European Union must be seething with us to be honest. Granted another extension and all we've done is gone on holiday, forced the PM to resign and then go back on holiday. Patience for another extension is surely being severely tested. I'm pretty sure that's correct, and If that's the case totally justified, however I believe the EU will keep offering extensions as long as we want believing the longer this drags on the increased chance of a revocation or a second referendum of which no doubt the options will be so biased towards a remain vote that will be the conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 Was it Boris yesterday saying he wouldn't pay the 39 billion settlement and use the money to cut taxes for a bit for 50-80k earners? Is the 39 billion an optional thing because I thought it was a binding and lawful debt to be paid to be able to leave? Genuine question... just wondered if he might be sailing close to well err war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Was it Boris yesterday saying he wouldn't pay the 39 billion settlement and use the money to cut taxes for a bit for 50-80k earners? No, it was the emergency money put aside for a 'No Deal' scenario (you know, the 'No Deal' he is threatening to leave with) that he's planning to waste on that. 30 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Is the 39 billion an optional thing because I thought it was a binding and lawful debt to be paid to be able to leave? Genuine question... just wondered if he might be sailing close to well err war? No, it's money we are contractually obliged to pay, a debt. If we renege on it, our international reputation will be in the gutter and our creditworthiness zero - just what you need when you're trying to negotiate trade deals. Edited 12 June 2019 by Buce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 32 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Was it Boris yesterday saying he wouldn't pay the 39 billion settlement and use the money to cut taxes for a bit for 50-80k earners? Is the 39 billion an optional thing because I thought it was a binding and lawful debt to be paid to be able to leave? Genuine question... just wondered if he might be sailing close to well err war? As I understand it. £39 billion is the agreed rate, with the EU for divorce but nothing final until everything is final. We have certain obligations, things that we have committed too but also a share of EU assets as a net contributor but that figure is one agreed by TM and barnier as the net balance. I don’t know if it can be lawful that we pay nothing but I’m sure that figure is heavily weighted in the EUs favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 34 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Is the 39 billion an optional thing because I thought it was a binding and lawful debt to be paid to be able to leave? Genuine question... just wondered if he might be sailing close to well err war? The HoL report concluded we are not obliged to pay it, but it's certainly up for debate. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/04/uk-could-quit-eu-without-paying-a-penny-say-lords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 3 minutes ago, Strokes said: As I understand it. £39 billion is the agreed rate, with the EU for divorce but nothing final until everything is final. We have certain obligations, things that we have committed too but also a share of EU assets as a net contributor but that figure is one agreed by TM and barnier as the net balance. I don’t know if it can be lawful that we pay nothing but I’m sure that figure is heavily weighted in the EUs favour. Why's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hundreds Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 I'm sure we'll get a bostin' trade deal if we don't pay it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said: Because the alternative is Boris Johnson. But Erm Jermey Corbyn...……………and a Socialist Utopia ala Venezuela. Why note vote for a party with a leader that has a brain instead?! Edited 12 June 2019 by Foxin_Mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 8 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said: But Erm Jermey Corbyn...……………and a Socialist Utopia ala Venezuela. Why note vote for a party with a leader that has a brain instead?! And you think that's Boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 Pretty important won for the government. Government defeats cross-party bid to allow MPs to legislate to rule out no-deal The government has won by 309 votes to 298 - a majority of 11. That means the motion has been defeated, and MPs won’t get control of Commons business on Tuesday 25 June to enable them to pass legislation blocking a no-deal Brexit. Updated at 4.53pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 Although £39bn is an agreed rate, all the experts reckon that the vast majority of it relates to sums we clearly owe (e.g. for being in the EU now, commitments made over time etc.). I'm sure there are some sums that could be quibbled over, but not most of it. I wonder how the legal position is affected by May signing up the Withdrawal Agreement? That House of Lords opinion that Matt quotes dates from more than 2 years ago, before the WA. I've not read the WA, but I presume it gives some reasons/breakdown for the £39bn figure agreed? If so, May's agreement to it would weaken any UK attempt to avoid payment on a legal technicality, surely? Even if there were some legal technicality for avoiding payment (dubious), it would be a shameful - and counter-productive - stance to adopt. It would be like LCFC refusing to pay for Iheanacho on a technicality, and then expecting other clubs to do great transfer deals with us......"bostin' deals", indeed! This article assesses Boris' real reasons for promising an October departure, deal or no deal, & threatening to refuse payment of the £39bn: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/12/boris-johnson-brexit-general-election ....Make impossible demands, raise unreasonable expectations, then in true Trump style blame the "intransigent EU" and "Remainer parliament" for not getting his way & being forced to call a general election... ....then the Tory Party campaign on a No Deal manifesto, stealing Farage's clothes and votes so as to win a majority under FPTP against an opposition divided between Lab, LD, SNP etc. (although only a rough indication, the polls posted earlier show that it's a feasible strategy....then, when No Deal chaos ensues and/or renegotation is required, no problem as he has 5 years in power after conning the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 5 minutes ago, MattP said: Pretty important won for the government. Government defeats cross-party bid to allow MPs to legislate to rule out no-deal The government has won by 309 votes to 298 - a majority of 11. That means the motion has been defeated, and MPs won’t get control of Commons business on Tuesday 25 June to enable them to pass legislation blocking a no-deal Brexit. Updated at 4.53pm Any detail on how they got that majority, Matt? I see that about 5 Tory MPs rebelled, enough to defeat the govt after the Change UK defections etc. Even with the DUP, they only have a majority of about 5 now, don't they? That suggests that perhaps as many as 10 Opposition MPs backed the Govt or at least abstained, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Any detail on how they got that majority, Matt? I see that about 5 Tory MPs rebelled, enough to defeat the govt after the Change UK defections etc. Even with the DUP, they only have a majority of about 5 now, don't they? That suggests that perhaps as many as 10 Opposition MPs backed the Govt or at least abstained, doesn't it? I've not seen the figures yet but yeah appears about ten Tories voting for the motion. I don't think they should be expecting to be the local candidate when we do go to the polls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 12 June 2019 Share Posted 12 June 2019 52 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said: I'm sure we'll get a bostin' trade deal if we don't pay it. How good a trade deal will we get if we pay it first then negotiate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts