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[Innovindil]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Without supporting evidence? It looks dodgy as ****.

 

We all know harvesting goes on anyway and it appears to be legal, I don't think it should be - you should only get a postal vote if you are incapable of getting to the polling station. 

 

"On Mahmood’s involvement, a Labour spokesperson said: “Peterborough council, who organise the count, always announce the results in a public area of the venue. There were hundreds of people there. The Labour Party had 19 official guests who were allowed in to the restricted areas. He was not one of them.

“Members of the public can of course support Labour, but this individual did not play any role in Labour’s campaign.”

Mr Mahmood was not the only person jailed previously due to vote rigging in Peterborough with six being sent to prison in 2008.

The electoral fraud took place in Central ward, and at last week’s by-election the highest number of postal votes (1,445) out of all wards were recorded in Central - around 180 more than second place"

Looks dodgy but the "evidence" isn't really evidence. Bad guy being there =/= bad guy electoral fraud. 

Edited 12 June 2019 by Innovindil

[Buce]

14 minutes ago, MattP said:

Without supporting evidence? It looks dodgy as ****.

 

We all know harvesting goes on anyway and it appears to be legal, I don't think it should be - you should only get a postal vote if you are incapable of getting to the polling station. 

 

"On Mahmood’s involvement, a Labour spokesperson said: “Peterborough council, who organise the count, always announce the results in a public area of the venue. There were hundreds of people there. The Labour Party had 19 official guests who were allowed in to the restricted areas. He was not one of them.

“Members of the public can of course support Labour, but this individual did not play any role in Labour’s campaign.”

Mr Mahmood was not the only person jailed previously due to vote rigging in Peterborough with six being sent to prison in 2008.

The electoral fraud took place in Central ward, and at last week’s by-election the highest number of postal votes (1,445) out of all wards were recorded in Central - around 180 more than second place"

 

Allegations beliefs and social media posts, or things that you think 'look dodgy' are not evidence.

 

Allegations of electoral fraud have been made about last week’s by-election in Peterborough with claims of postal vote rigging and intimidation - but the authorities insist there is no evidence of any wrongdoing.

Labour’s Lisa Forbes won the seat by 683 votes ahead of the Brexit Party’s Mike Greene, but a senior Conservative has alleged there was “harvesting” of postal votes, while the Tories have highlighted the involvement in the campaign of Labour activist Tariq Mahmood who was jailed in 2008 for postal vote interference.

 

Mr Mahmood was pictured with Ms Forbes and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn during the campaign and was also present at the election count - just as he has been at previous elections.

 

However, Labour has categorically denied that Mr Mahmood had any involvement in the campaign.

 

Cambridgeshire police is currently investigating two allegations of electoral fraud, including one message shared on social media allegedly showing someone bragging that he and two others had ‘burned more than 1,000 votes for the Brexit Party’.

Mr Greene, responding to it on Twitter, wrote: “Just not funny... if even 1 persons vote was destroyed then our democracy is threatened. More than ever we need to #ChangePoliticsForGood

“(NAME DELETED) should be investigated - this kind of post just spreads hate.”

The second incident being investigated is a report of a “suspicious incident involving postal votes on Tuesday (June 4)”, a police spokesman said.

 

 

He added: “Peterborough City Council and Cambridgeshire Constabulary are working closely to reduce the risk of election fraud and ensure voters have confidence in the electoral system.”

Peterborough City Council, which ran the election, has been inundated with so many queries and complaints that it issued a lengthy statement on Monday evening to try and reassure people that there was no evidence to suggest wrongdoing.

In particular, it referenced the fact that the 69.6 per cent return of postal votes (9,898 in total, with 400 rejected) at this election was much lower than the 81 per cent at the 2017 General Election (11,930 in total).

But council deputy leader Cllr Wayne Fitzgerald is convinced that illegal activity took place. The Conservative cabinet member told the Peterborough Telegraph: “I have grave concerns over postal vote harvesting within certain sections of the community, particularly focused on the urban city wards of Park, Central, North and East.

 

“We know it goes on with reports of it happening in Asian communities with people coerced.

 

“My view is postal votes should be scrapped entirely unless you are physically impaired.”

Asked if he had raised this issue with the council’s elections team, Cllr Fitzgerald said: “I’m assured by the chief executive police do covert actions.

“I am making constant complaints to electoral services.”

Peterborough City Council last year signed up to take part in a pilot scheme to prevent voter fraud, with certain voters needing to show identification.

 

 

However, with three high-profile elections taking place in a five week period the council pulled out of the scheme for this year.

Despite this, the authority insisted that the date of birth and signature which are required on postal voting forms are cross-checked with the same information given when a postal vote application is submitted.

Moreover, a spokeswoman said the matching process takes place on a large TV screen at the Town Hall, with approved party agents able to watch and challenge any postal votes.

Nevertheless, Conservative city councillor Shazia Bashir, who was formerly a Labour supporter, alleged to the PT that a few years ago she had seen electoral fraud first-hand in Eastern European and Asian areas of the city and firmly believes it still happens now.

She also claimed voters are told to take photographs to prove who they voted for, even though polling stations display signs stating that photography is forbidden.

Election observation group Democracy Volunteers sent a team of activists to cover the by-election and “identified an emerging concern in the frequency in which individuals were observed to be photographing their completed ballot papers”.

However, when contacted by the PT, a spokesman for the group said: “Our observer team is not aware of any evidence of voter intimidation or postal vote fraud in this election at this time.”

Labour has also branded the allegations of electoral fraud as “false and baseless”.

On Mr Mahmood’s involvement, a Labour spokesperson said: “Peterborough council, who organise the count, always announce the results in a public area of the venue. There were hundreds of people there. The Labour Party had 19 official guests who were allowed in to the restricted areas. He was not one of them.

“Members of the public can of course support Labour, but this individual did not play any role in Labour’s campaign.”

Mr Mahmood was not the only person jailed previously due to vote rigging in Peterborough with six being sent to prison in 2008.

The electoral fraud took place in Central ward, and at last week’s by-election the highest number of postal votes (1,445) out of all wards were recorded in Central - around 180 more than second place.

But despite this both the council and police claim there is no current evidence to suggest there has been any wrongdoing this time around.

The council, which has its own electoral fraud hotline, said: “Prior to polling day, Peterborough City Council received one unconfirmed report regarding alleged bribery which was referred to the police and on which no further action will be taken.

“One other concern was received on polling day which was also referred to the police but could not be substantiated. No other complaints have been received by the council.”

The Electoral Commission said Peterborough “is an area that has had a higher number of allegations in the past than other parts of the country”.

Eight allegations were investigated by Cambridgeshire Constabulary in 2017, which included tampering with ballot papers, undue influence and multiple voting.

Seven allegations saw no further outcomes, while one for false statements to candidates was “resolved locally”.

Eight allegations were also made last year which led to a Green Party candidate being convicted for forging signatures on a form to stand in the local elections.

An Electoral Commission spokesman said: “We know that there have been some allegations concerning postal votes at the by-election. It’s important to stress that the Electoral Administration Act 2006 introduced new measures to improve the security of postal and proxy votes.

“From January 1, 2007 all postal and proxy voters in England and Wales have been required to give their signature and date of birth when applying for a postal or proxy vote. A signature and date of birth are also required on the postal vote statement sent with the ballot papers,

“One hundred per cent of these must be checked against the original personal identifiers. Peterborough have confirmed that 100 per cent of postal votes were checked.”

Meanwhile, articles published online have alleged eye-witness accounts of coercion and bribery taking place at the by-election - albeit without any visual proof to substantiate the claims.

But such is the belief among many individuals that there has been foul play, that one online petition calling for an investigation has so far received more than 24,000 signatures, while a crowdfunding appeal to raise £30,000 to fund a legal challenge has also raised nearly £1,000.

 

Edited 12 June 2019 by Buce

[Brizzle Fox]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Whatever you think of Boris, on pure ballot box evidence he appears to be a serious vote winner.

 

Won Labour left leaning twice as mayor and led Vote Leave to victory.

 

First name recognition and fame is huge.

And this is the crux of the matter here. Johnson may be morally and ideologically bankrupt but for some unfathomable reason he still tends to connect with enough of the public as he appears a bit bonkers and they've seen him on the telly a few times. He's a brand and that's what politics seems to be about these days. 

 

I watched Rory Stewart's launch event at the Southbank last night and he was brilliant. Destroyed the negativity and fantasy politics of so many of the other candidates. Looks a bit weird but extremely charismatic. A different level but of course has no chance at this time. 

 

He of course knows this and is playing a long game as at some point once the Brexit cluster**** is behind us, politics will surely move back towards the centre ground and this is when him and others like him across both main parties will come back into their own. 

 

Well I hope so anyway 

[Carl the Llama]

We're in a sorry state if anybody's vote would be swung by a serial and insistent liar who acts like a fool and whose 'values' have been demonstrated to not be based on his personal beliefs regarding what's best for the country but what he thinks will benefit his career.

 

On the flip side does anybody have any idea why Labour and Brexit would benefit so strongly from Javid being the Tory leader?  I can't think of any reason why so many Conservative voters would go AWOL in that scenario... 

[davieG]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

We're in a sorry state if anybody's vote would be swung by a serial and insistent liar who acts like a fool and whose 'values' have been demonstrated to not be based on his personal beliefs regarding what's best for the country but what he thinks will benefit his career.

You're a bit late they already voted in Trump.

[MC Prussian]

21 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Out of curiosity, what funding method would you prefer?

- Subscription fees, like Sky?

- Advertising, like ITV?

- A combination of the two above?

- Pay-per-view?

- Govt. funding from general tax revenue?

 

And how would the poorer elderly, particularly the isolated/immobile, afford it, if it wasn't fully funded by general tax or advertising?

Keep some sort of state subsidy? Just accept more early deaths, hospitalisations & mental health problems among the elderly?

 

Difficult to see how some services (e.g. BBC2, BBC4, World Service radio) could be commercially funded - except by cross-subsidy from revenues for more popular BBC1-type programmes?

An institution such as the BBC should be continued to be funded by the public.

 

However, and we've had this discussion here in Switzerland as well, there needs to be some sort of a cap in terms of funding, more cost-efficient productions and a greater emphasis on cost control. Public broadcasting can't be an ever-growing behemoth of an apparatus.

The discussion on the TV license fee here was a heated one, it led to the Swiss version of the BBC, the SRG, to start implementing a cost-cutting exercise that is still going on.

 

I'm well aware that the BBC continues to produce great documentaries or TV series. The question is: How much BBC or public (TV) broadcasting does the population truly need? Television is an 80-year old construct that had its fair share of worth of existence up until the arrival of the internet and YouTube.

You could argue that what some call "diversification of opinion" is just adding another bias to the debate. Most journalists and people working in media in general are left-leaning, btw.

 

One needs to ask oneself: Why do we still need television? What's it really good for? What are its core elements that truly deserve to continue to exist?

I'm personally of the opinion that it isn't as essential as some make it out to be. In the case of the elderly, arguing that they rely on TV as some sort of companion is a rather bleak position. Nothing can replace human interaction, not even TV. You just delegate the responsibility to a thing, instead of a person.

 

Also, the progress in health care has also caused some sort of life expectancy crisis. People live longer, but is it a great life? At a certain point, it turns into merely vegetating in a care home (if you're lucky). Living longer means causing more costs in the process (housing, care, medication, etc.) - and I'm neither trying to be facetious nor mean here or look at the elderly as a burden. It's just stating facts. This is still very much a taboo subject, from what I can tell.

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, davieG said:

You're a bit late they already voted in Trump.

That's the USA though, sad that the same tactics would work here.  

[davieG]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

That's the USA though, sad that the same tactics would work here.  

People are more interested and attracted to vacuous celebrity.

[Lionator]

25 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

We're in a sorry state if anybody's vote would be swung by a serial and insistent liar who acts like a fool and whose 'values' have been demonstrated to not be based on his personal beliefs regarding what's best for the country but what he thinks will benefit his career.

 

On the flip side does anybody have any idea why Labour and Brexit would benefit so strongly from Javid being the Tory leader?  I can't think of any reason why so many Conservative voters would go AWOL in that scenario... 

His ethnicity.

[Carl the Llama]

7 minutes ago, davieG said:

People are more interested and attracted to vacuous celebrity.

Certainly seems that way. 

 

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

His ethnicity.

[Buce]

 

Imagine a Tory government ran by Bozo for five years in post hard-brexit-clusterfvck Britain.

 

Then get yourself over to the Depression thread.

Edited 12 June 2019 by Buce

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Imagine a Tory government ran by Bozo for five years in post-brexit-clusterfvck Britain.

 

Then get yourself over to the Depression thread.

Imagine a Tory government ran by Jeremy Hunt and a Labour Party ran by Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Both called Jeremy. Amazing.

[Facecloth]

Decision made, it won't be Rory Stewart.

 

 

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Imagine a Tory government ran by Jeremy Hunt and a Labour Party ran by Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Both called Jeremy. Amazing.

Just need Kyle and Clarkson to get involved for the full set. Clarkson can be transport secretary, Kyle for Work and pensions.

[bovril]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Just need Kyle and Clarkson to get involved for the full set. Clarkson can be transport secretary, Kyle for Work and pensions.

What about Beadle?

[ealingfox]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

What about Beadle?

 

I'd be surprised if he still had it in him.

[bovril]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

I'd be surprised if he still had it in him.

In these difficult Brexit times we need to think outside the box for creative solutions.

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

What about Beadle?

I'm sure he'll have a small hand in it somewhere.

[Alf Bentley]

7 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

The raw figures show huge DK figures (25%) which basically kills it usefulness even with all the salt in the world

 

Yes, I saw about the DK figures in the Twitter comments.

 

Quite apart from that, all sorts of things could yet disrupt calculations: Farage, Labour, EU, Boris' campaign imploding through some act of stupidity or revelation of the latter by media/other candidates...

Also, if Parliament blocks No Deal before Boris is even in post, does he call an election himself?

 

I suppose it just serves as a warning: Boris might (and "might", only) win a fair chunk of votes from the Brexit Party, plus a few more from Labour & others - enough under FPTP to win a majority & institute No Deal, with the opposition to No Deal divided.

[David Guiza]

Rory Stewart seems the most sensible option, but his real name is Rod. So many jokes that I don't wanna talk about it. 

[Foxin_Mad]

11 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Massive handful of salt required but who are these people that are basically voting purely for Boris? It's not even all coming from BP.

Im still baffled how so many people can still vote for Labour. They have no clue on Brexit remain or leave, Corbyn is an absolute joker, their policies are based on fiction and magic unicorns. 

 

They should be annihilated in places like Stoke

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Rory Stewart seems the most sensible option, but his real name is Rod. So many jokes that I don't wanna talk about it. 

He'll probably win, some guys have all the luck.

[Alf Bentley]

50 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Most journalists and people working in media in general are left-leaning, btw.

 

One needs to ask oneself: Why do we still need television? What's it really good for? What are its core elements that truly deserve to continue to exist?

I'm personally of the opinion that it isn't as essential as some make it out to be. In the case of the elderly, arguing that they rely on TV as some sort of companion is a rather bleak position. Nothing can replace human interaction, not even TV. You just delegate the responsibility to a thing, instead of a person.

 

 

I don't disagree with much you said in your longer post, but just to respond to those two points....

 

A majority of BBC journalists/media types might be left-leaning, though some definitely aren't. What about ITV or Sky? Not so sure there....and a majority of newspapers are owned by people with a right-wing agenda and express right-wing views, whether the journalists do that because they believe them or for career reasons doesn't really matter. People on the Right criticise the BBC for having a left-liberal agenda. People on the Left criticise the BBC for supporting conservative establishment values & being unfairly critical of Corbyn & co or not covering Left opinions sufficiently.....everyone wants to live in an echo chamber, apparently. FWIW, my criticism would not be about Left or Right bias, but that it tries too hard to be even-handed. Factual news coverage needs that, but reporting/analysis could be bolder - expressing a range of different views, Left and Right and others. No need to constantly seek the middle ground. But I think the BBC is a flawed treasure that we trash at our peril.

 

Re. old people, I quite agree that TV is a second-best option to human interaction. But some old people don't have that interaction - they might not have family/friends that live close by or are able to spend much time on them (busy lives etc.). Some might have helpful neighbours, others not - and some will be unable to even leave the house. As a society, we should be prepared to spend more on care for the elderly so they get more contact. But we're doing the opposite. Central Govt has massively slashed the funds available to local govt / care providers, at a time when there is a growing elderly population. Social care for the elderly is massively underfunded, in crisis and getting worse, meaning that countless thousands of elderly people are in hospitals long-term as an unsuitable, harmful substitute for social care....yet that's not a priority for our prospective new PM. His first priority is to offer a massive tax cut to those on the highest incomes. In context, TV might be a second-best option, but lives would be even bleaker without it.

[Alf Bentley]

17 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

He'll probably win, some guys have all the luck.

 

Nice bit of greasing that his songs name-check 2 Tory PMs ("Maggie May") & an ex-Chancellor ("The killing of Georgie") - and the oil industry ("Gasoline Alley").

 

I'm a bit concerned about his public spending agenda, though, with "The first cut is the deepest".

Also a bit disreputable that he's adopting the Boris no-media strategy with "I don't want to talk about it"

.....and I definitely don't think he's sexy at all.

 

Losing my marbles. Must work!

[davieG]

 

Gove says any post Brexit free trade deal with Colombia is “not to be sneezed at”

 

9TH JUNE 2019 BY TITAN SEARCHLIGHT
Gove says any post Brexit free trade deal with Colombia is “not to be sneezed at”
HIGH IMPORTS : With the weekend revelations that the majority of Tory candidates to replace Theresa May are smacked out of their brains most  of the time, Global Britain can look forward to a solid trading future with Latin America.

“The very first day after I become prime minister I’ll be on a plane to Colombia,” almost anyone of them can say, “a light aircraft clearly that will fly low enough to avoid radar and return home with hold all’s heaving with class A drugs.”

The plan to import mountains of narcotics from countries famous for the export is a sure sign that whoever takes over will be up to the challenge.

“You’re going to need to be wasted all the time just to cope with the pressure,” our political analyst says, “I mean May has left behind her a complete and utter shitshow. You’d have to be high to think you can clean up the mess and make a success of Brexit. Thankfully most of the candidates to be prime minister are just that.”

It’s believed that securing a trade deal with cocaine producing countries will allow the UK to remain the gateway to the EU27 for third countries.

“Clearly we have to replace what’s left of our traditional manufacturing base with something. Why not the import and export of mountainous quantities of powders? And traditional herbal remedies? It’s a no brainer.”

Suppliers of accessories are thought to be anticipating a boom too. With small plastic bags and lottery slips certain to be in high demand as the UK moves to being entirely pharmaceutical based economy.

“Global Britain, you don’t need to be high to live here, but it helps.”

 

http://www.lcdviews.com/2019/06/09/gove-says-any-post-brexit-free-trade-deal-with-columbia-is-not-to-be-sneezed-at/?fbclid=IwAR2KYUzZgAgy8oZvrdQRtDRbZ_SERKtChybhVpS2E_ETHzdXOzEQZvMNmK4

 

Government mocking and Brexit related satire, as well as general nonsense now and then. They're playing us all for fools so let's laugh in their faces.