Alf Bentley Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Just now, MattP said: He was probably too busy passing information to communist Czechoslovakia to deal with that! For the record, you should probably note that he completely denies those allegations - made against various others, including Foot and Corbyn, against whom they seem to have been false accusations. He's a cynical tosser and I've no idea what he has or hasn't done.....but it's too easy to chuck out allegations without evidence. If you have evidence, please do share.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, MattP said: I told you yesterday it would socially be in line with Lega and economically akin to the CDU. And I told you I'm not familiar with La Lega’s policies; but, ok - let's have a look on Wiki: "It supports the promotion of immigration from non-Muslim countries in order to protect the "Christian identity" of Italy and Europe, which according to party officials should be based on "Judeo-Christian heritage" "The party takes a socially conservative stance on social issues, such as abortion, euthanasia, medical embryonic stem cell research, artificial insemination and same sex marriage. Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but in what sense is any of that 'patriotic'? Islamophobic? Yes. Homophobic? Yes. Misogynistic? Yes. But patriotic? Edited 27 June 2019 by Buce 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Meanwhile.....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/27/concern-angela-merkels-health-german-chancellor-seen-shaking/ I hope she's alright. It's already not a good time for the UK that Germany has a lame-duck Chancellor & internal political instability.....could do without Merkel falling ill. Mind you, I can't resist sharing this early footage of Angela in her youth, when she was in a 60s dance troupe.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: For the record, you should probably note that he completely denies those allegations - made against various others, including Foot and Corbyn, against whom they seem to have been false accusations. He's a cynical tosser and I've no idea what he has or hasn't done.....but it's too easy to chuck out allegations without evidence. If you have evidence, please do share.... Well he was hardly going to admit to it was it? The Mail on Sunday had enough evidence to run about 25 pages on him - it was quite interesting, even if he wasn't passing secrets it's quite baffling for a back benches to be getting that close to agents of a communist country. Is he taking any legal action against the claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Meanwhile.....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/27/concern-angela-merkels-health-german-chancellor-seen-shaking/ I hope she's alright. It's already not a good time for the UK that Germany has a lame-duck Chancellor & internal political instability.....could do without Merkel falling ill. Mind you, I can't resist sharing this early footage of Angela in her youth, when she was in a 60s dance troupe.... You trying to make this thread readable Alf ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 1 minute ago, MattP said: Well he was hardly going to admit to it was it? The Mail on Sunday had enough evidence to run about 25 pages on him - it was quite interesting, even if he wasn't passing secrets it's quite baffling for a back benches to be getting that close to agents of a communist country. Is he taking any legal action against the claims? As I said, I know nothing about his case - and will pay attention once serious evidence is presented. Even you seem to assume that there was no conclusive evidence that he was passing secrets. If the only evidence is a Right-leaning paper showing that he "got close to" foreign agents (whatever that means), that's just guilt by association. Please do post any key evidence, though I've no interest in wading through loads of mud-slinging and unsubstantiated insinuations. Presumably he'll face serious charges if there is serious evidence. Until then, he's innocent - unless "innocent until proven guilty" no longer exists and "guilty by association & media smear" is the new norm. As a "patriot" who has been the subject of unsubstantiated allegations yourself, I'd have thought that you'd be a bit more cautious.....but maybe those allegations were also just truths that you were "hardly going to admit"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Just now, Alf Bentley said: As I said, I know nothing about his case - and will pay attention once serious evidence is presented. Even you seem to assume that there was no conclusive evidence that he was passing secrets. If the only evidence is a Right-leaning paper showing that he "got close to" foreign agents (whatever that means), that's just guilt by association. Please do post any key evidence, though I've no interest in wading through loads of mud-slinging and unsubstantiated insinuations. Presumably he'll face serious charges if there is serious evidence. Until then, he's innocent - unless "innocent until proven guilty" no longer exists and "guilty by association & media smear" is the new norm. As a "patriot" who has been the subject of unsubstantiated allegations yourself, I'd have thought that you'd be a bit more cautious.....but maybe those allegations were also just truths that you were "hardly going to admit"? Think I'll duck out before it starts to get a bit nasty. Fortunately I'm a lot busier these days. It was covered in great detail in numerous papers with files from the Czech authorities - it's one hell of a story to be honest and should be investigated to a great extent. Maybe just shouting "Islamophobia" as loud as possible though is just the best way to deal with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 24 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Meanwhile.....https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/27/concern-angela-merkels-health-german-chancellor-seen-shaking/ I hope she's alright. It's already not a good time for the UK that Germany has a lame-duck Chancellor & internal political instability.....could do without Merkel falling ill. Mind you, I can't resist sharing this early footage of Angela in her youth, when she was in a 60s dance troupe.... Who is it that's moving right up close to her making her shake - Boris I'd guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Think I'll duck out before it starts to get a bit nasty. Fortunately I'm a lot busier these days. It was covered in great detail in numerous papers with files from the Czech authorities - it's one hell of a story to be honest and should be investigated to a great extent. Maybe just shouting "Islamophobia" as loud as possible though is just the best way to deal with it all. Not sure what "Islamophobia" has to do with it? I didn't mention Islam. You didn't mention Islam. I'm not aware of Geoffrey Robinson being a Muslim - or of the Czech authorities or Mail on Sunday being Muslims. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 1 hour ago, Buce said: I agree. But until we abandon FPTP for a more democratic system, that's the only real choice we have. Surely if enough people stop voting Tory and Labour then they wont win?! The problem is people having the belief that I might as well vote for a bunch of numpties because they are less bad than the other numpties! If everyone voted for who they actual wanted instead of blind faith tribal politics the current system would still generate a fair result and there would be no majority, it would require some form of coalition on a regular basis. The problem occurs when people say for example 'I am voting Labour becoz I ate Tories' even though Corbyn is a bigger tool than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 1 minute ago, Foxin_Mad said: Surely if enough people stop voting Tory and Labour then they wont win?! The problem is people having the belief that I might as well vote for a bunch of numpties because they are less bad than the other numpties! If everyone voted for who they actual wanted instead of blind faith tribal politics the current system would still generate a fair result and there would be no majority, it would require some form of coalition on a regular basis. The problem occurs when people say for example 'I am voting Labour becoz I ate Tories' even though Corbyn is a bigger tool than most. I kind of agree, in principle, but it doesn’t really work in practice. I live in the safest of Tory seats and my vote is no more than a cursory nod towards democracy. For the record, under a system where every vote counts , my vote would be Green, not Labour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Guiza Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 7 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said: Surely if enough people stop voting Tory and Labour then they wont win?! The problem is people having the belief that I might as well vote for a bunch of numpties because they are less bad than the other numpties! If everyone voted for who they actual wanted instead of blind faith tribal politics the current system would still generate a fair result and there would be no majority, it would require some form of coalition on a regular basis. The problem occurs when people say for example 'I am voting Labour becoz I ate Tories' even though Corbyn is a bigger tool than most. There are so many people in my parents and their parents generation that would never vote anybody other than Labour or Tory, regardless of who is put forward. As illustrated by Boris and Corbyn. I've voted Labour in the past even though, same as @Buce, my heart would vote Green. Once because there wasn't even a Green candidate in my constituency and the other because it was the only feasible way of getting rid of the career politician in my constituency who could murder a child a day for his parliamentary term and still get elected. Needless to say that failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Not sure what "Islamophobia" has to do with it? I didn't mention Islam. You didn't mention Islam. I'm not aware of Geoffrey Robinson being a Muslim - or of the Czech authorities or Mail on Sunday being Muslims. When I was a kid, my brother would tip over the chess board in a childish fit of pique when he was losing at chess. Matt just tipped over the board. Edited 27 June 2019 by Buce 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 11 minutes ago, Buce said: When I was a kid, my brother would tip over the chess board when he was losing at chess. Matt just tipped over the board. Coming from you! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48778045 A little more certainty would be nice, but it doesn't really matter if it isn't there, does it? It's only safeguarding the future, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Coming from you! Lol Nah. Refusing to debate with an apologist for paedophiles is an entirely different thing, so don't waste bandwidth trying to provoke me. Edited 27 June 2019 by Buce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 29 minutes ago, Buce said: Nah. Refusing to debate with an apologist for paedophiles is an entirely different thing, so don't waste bandwidth trying to provoke me. Thats amazing. Your hypocrisy is the envy of the internet. You prove my point and act provoked whilst claiming to not be provoked all in the same post. Do explain to the group how i'm an apologist for pedos. If i was into the banning thing such a statement would be a prime candidate Pick those chess pieces up mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 5 hours ago, Swan Lesta said: It’s great to see how far the narratives of our arguments as a political forum have progressed since 2016. Was that the time you joined the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Just now, Dr The Singh said: Was that the time you joined the forum? As you well know, no! But I was referring to the merry go round of left right exchanges on the past few pages since the 2016 referendum. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Not really 'news' as such but I really enjoyed this long read: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jun/27/the-invention-of-essex-how-a-county-became-a-caricature 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 Perhaps people can just take a step back for a moment and remove the personal hostility from the posts. I love this thread and the discussions you guys have and the ideas you generate, I don't want it closing down. You are all good guys with intelligence and strong views. We're here to share and discuss. Maybe it's your unlimited posts that allow you to waste some petty fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 1 minute ago, FIF said: Perhaps people can just take a step back for a moment and remove the personal hostility from the posts. I love this thread and the discussions you guys have and the ideas you generate, I don't want it closing down. You are all good guys with intelligence and strong views. We're here to share and discuss. Maybe it's your unlimited posts that allow you to waste some petty fighting. I agree, however I just dont like being called a paedophile sympathiser, it irks one a little, and would like such an accusation explained, or taken back. I think its the worst thing ive ever seen on here, bar possibly Thracian's conflation of pedos and homosexuality, which was actually a less disingenuous statement, albeit an equally confused one. As it stands: Eats, makes accusations of being a nonce apologist, and leaves - the state of the contempory left 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 4 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: I agree, however I just dont like being called a paedophile sympathiser, it irks one a little, and would like such an accusation explained, or taken back. I think its the worst thing ive ever seen on here, bar possibly Thracian's conflation of pedos and homosexuality, which was actually a less disingenuous statement, albeit an equally confused one. As it stands: Eats, makes accusations of being a nonce apologist, and leaves - the state of the contempory left Buce hasn't posted since his last post in here. People are busy. I often have time to browse but not post, give him chance to respond, it's the middle of the working day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: I agree, however I just dont like being called a paedophile sympathiser, it irks one a little, and would like such an accusation explained, or taken back. I think its the worst thing ive ever seen on here, bar possibly Thracian's conflation of pedos and homosexuality, which was actually a less disingenuous statement, albeit an equally confused one. As it stands: Eats, makes accusations of being a nonce apologist, and leaves - the state of the contempory left Actually, I have you on ignore, so I only saw Facecloth's quote. You know full well what I mean - fortunately for you, the thread was deleted, so you are able to plead innocence. It was a very late night thread but I don't suppose I'm the only one to remember it though. I have made it clear to you that I don't intend having any kind of interaction with you - and why - yet you constantly snipe at my posts with the intention of drawing me in. Well, congratulations - this time you did. I don't know whether you're just an attention seeking troll or whether you seriously believe the disturbing shit you post, but either way this is the last time I will respond to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 27 June 2019 Share Posted 27 June 2019 2 minutes ago, Buce said: Actually, I have you on ignore, so I only saw Facecloth's quote. You know full well what I mean - fortunately for you, the thread was deleted, so you are able to plead innocence. It was a very late night thread but I don't suppose I'm the only one to remember it though. I have made it clear to you that I don't intend having any kind of interaction with you - and why - yet you constantly snipe at my posts with the intention of drawing me in. Well, congratulations - this time you did. I don't know whether you're just an attention seeking troll or whether you seriously believe the disturbing shit you post, but either way this is the last time I will respond to you. Thats incredibly convenient for you isnt it? You are happy to dish out accusations but you wont back them up. Why? Because there is nothing behind them and you are not above dishing them out instead of dealing with arguments. And you have the hypocrisy to claim the moral high ground. Nice that everyone can see how you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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