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Extinction Rebellion

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3 hours ago, shade said:

Is anybody here genuinely understanding of climate change from a first hand, studied perspective?

Yes - if you count university course credits and numerous journal papers read as "studied" as opposed to original PhD-style research, that is.

 

I think @Line-X has some background on the topic too, perhaps.

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9 hours ago, shade said:

Is anybody here genuinely understanding of climate change from a first hand, studied perspective?

You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. 

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36 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. 

you do with something as complicated as climate change, when your talking about cycles and historical dataa and natural Vs man made etc etc

 

we all remember mad cow disease and the millennium bug, I'm not saying climate change is blown out of proportion, just that only 0.001% of the discussion is being undertaken by people who genuinely unferstand and aren't just parroting studies that may or may not be accurate 

 

 

Edited by shade

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14 minutes ago, shade said:

you do with something as complicated as climate change, when your talking about cycles and historical dataa and natural Vs man made etc etc

 

we all remember mad cow disease and the millennium bug, I'm not saying climate change is blown out of proportion, just that only 0.001% of the discussion is being undertaken by people who genuinely unferstand and aren't just parroting studies that may or may not be accurate 

 

 

The accuracy of the information and the conclusions drawn from it in terms of temperature change are not in question...but yes, there is an awful lot of uninformed talk going on which obfuscates the facts as they are known and that does have an effect on response. A rather big one, in fact.

Edited by leicsmac

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11 minutes ago, shade said:

you do with something as complicated as climate change, when your talking about cycles and historical dataa and natural Vs man made etc etc

 

we all remember mad cow disease and the millennium bug, I'm not saying climate change is blown out of proportion, just that only 0.001% of the discussion is being undertaken by people who genuinely unferstand and aren't just parroting studies that may or may not be accurate 

 

 

I think it’s ok to “parrot” studies done by reputable scientists that are based on peer reviewed papers. It’s also valid to discuss what priorities society should adopt. Not OK to muddy the waters with conspiracy theory nonsense that can probably be traced to the fossil fuel lobby.

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58 minutes ago, shade said:

you do with something as complicated as climate change, when your talking about cycles and historical dataa and natural Vs man made etc etc

 

we all remember mad cow disease and the millennium bug, I'm not saying climate change is blown out of proportion, just that only 0.001% of the discussion is being undertaken by people who genuinely unferstand and aren't just parroting studies that may or may not be accurate 

 

 

Don’t remember Dylan singing that but I guess there are works I’m unaware of. 

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1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I think it’s ok to “parrot” studies done by reputable scientists that are based on peer reviewed papers. It’s also valid to discuss what priorities society should adopt. Not OK to muddy the waters with conspiracy theory nonsense that can probably be traced to the fossil fuel lobby.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2018/02/06/sorry-earth-the-ozone-layer-isnt-healing-itself-after-all/#1b6f38fb5418

 

b.b.but the ozone layer depletion was DEFINITELY caused by man made CFCs, oops maybe it wasn't!

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55 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Bastards. I'm just on my way there. Now who am I gonna dance with? :(

It's only a ban after 9pm, you have plenty of time :)

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1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

Don’t remember Dylan singing that but I guess there are works I’m unaware of. 

 

1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

Don’t remember Dylan singing that but I guess there are works I’m unaware of. 

Think it was on 'Self Portrait' Not entirely sure as I've never managed to actually listen to it all the way through...

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2 hours ago, shade said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2018/02/06/sorry-earth-the-ozone-layer-isnt-healing-itself-after-all/#1b6f38fb5418

 

b.b.but the ozone layer depletion was DEFINITELY caused by man made CFCs, oops maybe it wasn't!

Actually, we're seeing an upwards trend, with the Ozone hole shrinking (based on the past 30, 35 years). Which is great.

https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/2019-ozone-hole-continues-intrigue

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22 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Yes we are, since these are the people protesting. When you give up your flights, tvs, iPhones and car I will start to listen to you too.

 

22 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Were I a neo-Luddite (like some of XR ostensibly are) and anyone sane at all thought it was necessary to abandon tech to fight this threat, then that might mean something...but I'm not (I like to hope my posting history bears that out) and they don't, so it doesn't. I'm not giving up my luxuries, nor should you, nor should you really need to - not when other solutions exist that can maintain quality of life while sorting all of this out. Again, I'm unsure as to where this neo-Luddite strawman that folks seem to think signifies the people wanting change comes from - it's like people don't get groups like XR are simply making the most noise.

 

I am however interested in what you make of the scientific data on climate change and who exactly you would listen to on this matter, if you'd be forthcoming enough to share.

 

NB. I have neither an iPhone nor a car, so I'm halfway there already. :thumbup:

Any time you're ready. No rush.

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Guest MattP
4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Any time you're ready. No rush.

He's saying he'll listen to anyone who isn't a total hypocrite isn't he? Perfectly fair imo.

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7 minutes ago, MattP said:

He's saying he'll listen to anyone who isn't a total hypocrite isn't he? Perfectly fair imo.

Right, and by that own metric I'm only half of one so I was hoping for some scientific discourse. :thumbup:

 

I seriously hope you don't consider me a hypocrite, Matt. :(

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Guest MattP
6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Right, and by that own metric I'm only half of one so I was hoping for some scientific discourse. :thumbup:

 

I seriously hope you don't consider me a hypocrite, Matt. :(

I think we are all hypocrites aren't we?

 

I mean I presume you weren't swimming to America and Korea whilst preaching on climate change? 

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14 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think we are all hypocrites aren't we?

 

I mean I presume you weren't swimming to America and Korea whilst preaching on climate change? 

As I mentioned in my original reply...only if you consider a necessity of fighting this danger to abandon tech and scientific development - which I never have and never will. I'm not asking for people to give that stuff up in the same way some of the...less thoughtful members of XR are.

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36 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

As I mentioned in my original reply...only if you consider a necessity of fighting this danger to abandon tech and scientific development - which I never have and never will. I'm not asking for people to give that stuff up in the same way some of the...less thoughtful members of XR are.

I think the trouble is Mac, you and others are confusing criticism of ER, with climate change scepticism.

While I might not swallow all scientific research into manmade climate change, I’m fully on board with cleaner energy and us being carbon neutral. I would love us to use brexit as an excuse to start the green revolution and lead the way. So long as it’s not to our detriment.

Edited by Strokes

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3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think the trouble is Mac, you and others are confusing criticism of ER, with climate change scepticism.

While I might not swallow all scientific research into manmade climate change, I’m fully on board with cleaner energy and us being carbon neutral. I would love us to use brexit as an excuse to start the green revolution and lead the way. So long as it’s not to our detriment.

I can see where you're coming from, but with all due respect I'm conflating those two matters because they are being conflated already - I think this whole round of chat began with that Hitchens column in which he did exactly that. People are using criticism of XR (which has the veneer of plausibility given what they've been up to) as a strawman and a tool with which to discredit the whole idea...or at the very least they aren't taking the time to mark the difference in the same way that you do here, which leads to obvious assumptions.

 

I see it so often and it is a frustrating thing because it can be avoided by a simple line of qualifier and it's not difficult. And there are those of us who want scientific development to bring us out of the climate crisis having to sit here yelling the proposed solutions to the sky again and again while the neo-Luddites and sceptics fling mud at each other and things don't get done at the pace that they should or even need to get done, given the need for an organised polity in order for the decisions to be made in a democracy.

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It's a classic case of the sun and the wind forcing the bloke to take his coat off. I've moderated my meat consumption a bit, try to use public transport or walk whenever I can, buy more loose vegetables etc. Those are actionable lifestyle changes we can all make, ER performing some sort of Wickerman dance and demanding a citizen's assembly is going to convert a significant amount of people to their cause.

 

Small incremental societal changes like businesses using fewer single use plastics, the carrier bag charge and buying less bottled water is glacial but it's better than pissing off normal people and increasing the likelihood of apathy or worse. We live in a gluttonous, hyper consumerist society which needs to stop but being so confrontational isn't helping. Lobby governments, policy makers, councils and the like, not commuters.

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1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

neo-Luddites

The Luddite and anti-vaccine movements can be traced back to Leicester, makes you proud lol 

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