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Wymsey

Extinction Rebellion

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10 hours ago, MattP said:

"Civil disobedience" when you have the ballot box as a way of changing things is just extremism.

 

And if your arguments can't convince people then be certain your unrest won't either.

What's even more strange is the people proclaiming that the "grand thieves" are still running around freely waste valuable time by attacking and harassing hundreds, thousands of innocent bystanders who have absolutely nothing to do with that "conspiracy".

 

If this really was about targeting the selected few that allegedly rule the world (Bilderberg and whatnot), the current protests are vastly misguided. They'd be better off targeting that selected few directly; be it at work, on the road or on holidays.

Just the same as people preaching to the choir here with regards to climate change policies - where the protests are much more needed in China, India, Africa and Asia.

Let them try, I say... Let's see how far they can get.

 

But no, go the easy route and block public traffic at home instead. lol

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ER have shown rather than being part of the solution they are part of the problem. I dont know what the solution is but i will take to the street to protest and tell every one that they must start implementing the solution. I believe i read somewhere if we stopped as a nation producing the co2 tomorrow the worlds output of co2 would drop by 1.8% tbh i dont know what difference that would actually make in the grand scheme of things but i am glad i live in a country that is trying to make a difference but we must encourage others to do the same. By use of the carrot and the stick perhaps linking trade deals to pollution levels. PS to the world leaders you dont need to jet off around the world to hold a climate summit you can have it on line you bumd asses.

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But for all the rhetoric about the people’s will, nothing of the kind is on offer in Britain. The so-called citizens’ assembly on climate change proposed by parliament is a cynical caricature of participation. It has a restrictive agenda, a narrow range of advisers and no time for effective deliberation. Digital tools offer massive opportunities for fine-tuning political decisions, but our cod-medieval system – all Black Rods and sergeants at arms – is stuck in the age of the quill pen. The only new form of participation we have been granted this century is an enhanced right to petition parliament, introduced by Tony Blair in 2006. Did it seem radical and innovative? Only until you remember that a similar concession appears to have been made by Edward I in 1275.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/24/will-of-the-people-british-democracy

 

Image result for house of lords

Edited by ozleicester

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3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

But for all the rhetoric about the people’s will, nothing of the kind is on offer in Britain. The so-called citizens’ assembly on climate change proposed by parliament is a cynical caricature of participation. It has a restrictive agenda, a narrow range of advisers and no time for effective deliberation. Digital tools offer massive opportunities for fine-tuning political decisions, but our cod-medieval system – all Black Rods and sergeants at arms – is stuck in the age of the quill pen. The only new form of participation we have been granted this century is an enhanced right to petition parliament, introduced by Tony Blair in 2006. Did it seem radical and innovative? Only until you remember that a similar concession appears to have been made by Edward I in 1275.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/24/will-of-the-people-british-democracy

 

Image result for house of lords

Well, you could equally say that the UK parliament has held up rather well and it's testament to its efficiency that it has lasted so long already (412 years and counting).

I do see potential for reform, particularly in the House of Lords, where the Church (in the shape of Lords Spiritual) still has an influence it does not warrant. But changes only seem to be required on a cosmetic basis.

 

The 1275 case in this context is rather ludicrous, as Parliament in its current form didn't even exist for another 430+ years.

 

The Citizens' Assembly proposed by ER has its own flaws - who gets elected, for how long, will it be ethnically diverse and have a 50:50 representation in terms of men and women? Are LGBT+ to receive proportionally more seats, are homosexuals preferred over heteros? Will there be an age limit? Will there be children on the panel? In leading/key positions even? Will there be only specialists, or mainly common people (who know little to nothing about the matter)? How influential should its decisions be? Law-making or only as a council that hands out non-binding recommendations? What will the contact be to regular Parliament? Will there be lobbies allowed or any outside influence decisively frowned upon?

 

The people's will is already represented in the way one votes. If you care about the environment, Green Party or Liberals (we also have Green Liberals over here as a single party) are the way to go - but then, these parties and their representatives need to be held accountable for their promises and checked on a regular basis, just like any other major political force.

Edited by MC Prussian
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/extinction-rebellion-begin-legal-challenge-against-protest-ban

 

Childish and selfish I know but genuinely hope they win purely for the entertainment that comes with it.

 

I doubt they'll be stepping out the posh central London tourist holes in future anyway. 

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5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://phys.org/news/2019-10-scientists-reveal-fossil-fuel-industry.html

 

The tobacco industry did it before, the fossil fuel companies did it now.

 

And yet it still evidently works.

And a lot of us have been well aware it's happening for decades.  Unfortunately such tactics work, there's not a great deal that good science and evidence can do about the dopamine rush you get when you're led to believe there's a conspiracy of self-proclaimed smart people trying to control your life and you're one of the few real intellectuals aware of what's really going on. 

Quote

 

2. As the scientific consensus on climate change emerged and strengthened, the industry and its political allies attacked the consensus and exaggerated the uncertainties.

3.  The fossil fuel industry offered no consistent alternative explanation for why the climate was changing—the goal was merely to undermine support for action.

4.  The strategy, tactics, infrastructure, and rhetorical arguments and techniques used by fossil fuel interests to challenge the scientific evidence of climate change—including cherry picking, fake experts, and conspiracy theories—come straight out of the tobacco industry's playbook for delaying tobacco control.


 

 

I mean that must all sound awfully familiar to anyone who's been paying attention to the climate change debates on here.

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4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

And a lot of us have been well aware it's happening for decades.  Unfortunately such tactics work, there's not a great deal that good science and evidence can do about the dopamine rush you get when you're led to believe there's a conspiracy of self-proclaimed smart people trying to control your life and you're one of the few real intellectuals aware of what's really going on. 

I mean that must all sound awfully familiar to anyone who's been paying attention to the climate change debates on here.

Before, such dopamine and adrenaline rushes were integral to our survival. Now, they may end up being directly responsible for, if not our extinction, then possibly humanity finding itself in vastly reduced circumstances.

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Thousand disrupted....

 

Streets blocked....

 

oh, but no complaints from the government and its capitalist scum today

 

Image result for cup parade"

Edited by ozleicester
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If I was living in poverty and as a result consume very little on a daily basis, I'd be very annoyed that a movement like this, considering that climate change isn't the biggest factor in world hunger in certain parts (which has been happening for decades, even before cc was publicised) and seeing people copying/mimicking my poor situation for their owm action against global warming.

 

So believe that they're doing the wrong course of action here, and making this movement seem as ridiculous as they have been doing with their other actions.

Edited by Wymeswold fox

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