FT General Election Poll 2019

[Milo]

4 hours ago, pleatout said:

Just to add

BT own Openreach that provide the "last mile" to your house unless you have cable.

 

BT own Plusnet

BT own TalkTalk

BT own EE

BT own BT Broadband

 

The competition isnt really competitive.  BT have most of it

Yeah - just what we need. Unionise our communications.

 

(You do remember British Rail, British Leyland, et al, don't you)? 

 

Imagine if the the Nationalised broadband network which provides connectivity to EVERY home in the country suddenly down tools 'cos the engineers have been asked to wear a different colour uniform, or whatever. Can't imagine what they'd do, can you??!

 

Yep, just what we need. Top idea   

[jammie82uk]

23 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

So this broadband scheme.  

Effectively takes back the rolling out of infrastructure from companies and puts the state in charge of that bit.  Then let's companies continue to sell packages and add ons.

Perfectly sensible.  

Takes the costs away from users and onto taxpayers effectively meaning that the more you earn the more you contribute. 

I pay a big whack of tax but I am happy with that.  

BT have failed to provide the country with the broadband it needs and it's time government stepped in we all had a stake in infrastructure again. 

 

With this scheme There will be no broadband packages for companies to sell as it will be offered for free 

 

are users and taxpayers not the same thing? 

 

Also taxpayers apparently won’t be liable for the upkeep as it will be a new tax from companies such as Facebook and Google

[pleatout]

1 hour ago, Foxin_Mad said:

They really are though. The infrastructure is the valuable part of BT, the retail part is bankrupt without it. Openreach also offers wholesale broadband to other providers, if you make this free you have destroyed the wholesale business and destroyed your competitors business. Companies like Talk Talk and Virgin Media suddenly have no value in their business.

 

Its delusional to think this is a remotely good idea. A reunionised BT nationalised would be the biggest blocked of broadband roll out in Britain.

 

Deutsche Telekom are absolutely terrible at rolling out Fibre in Germany they act like they are still nationalised.

 

It's a nonsense. Only a Socialist could dream up such drivel.

The retail part of BT isnt bankrupt without OpenReach, it will have to compete (as it is supposed to do) with Sky and Virgin Media.  BT have bought up most of the rest of the competiton.

 

OpenReach will continue to provide wholesale links - it isnt just broadband that runs over their infrastructure.  Why do you think you HAVE to have a phoneline and pay for phone services.  There is NO technical reason, it's a massive money spinner for all broadband providers.  Of course Virgin and TalkTalk (sorry BT) have value.  They can always do what the private sector does best - better value, more features, faster speeds, better customer service etc.

 

I love the way you prove my point and draw a parallel with  Deutsche Telekom.  OpenReach are an appalling company to deal with.  I very much doubt you have ever had to deal with them, as a member of the public you cant, you aren't allowed to.  If you work for a Telco you will know how bad they are.  They are living in the 1970's.  You get what you are given, when we say.  Oh and if you try to complain, you cant.  OfCom cant and your Telco cant.

 

This country should have had a decent network years ago.  Anyone running their broadband on aluminium cables?  Installed during the copper shortages after the war.  21st century network my *rse.

[pleatout]

31 minutes ago, Milo said:

Yeah - just what we need. Unionise our communications.

 

(You do remember British Rail, British Leyland, et al, don't you)? 

 

Imagine if the the Nationalised broadband network which provides connectivity to EVERY home in the country suddenly down tools 'cos the engineers have been asked to wear a different colour uniform, or whatever. Can't imagine what they'd do, can you??!

 

Yep, just what we need. Top idea   

Why would it unionise?

 

You do know that OpenReach ALREADY provide connectivity to EVERY property in the country.  Some use cable but EVERY property has OpenReach connectivity.

 

[Milo]

1 minute ago, pleatout said:

Why would it unionise?

 

You do know that OpenReach ALREADY provide connectivity to EVERY property in the country.  Some use cable but EVERY property has OpenReach connectivity.

 

[pleatout]

29 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

 

With this scheme There will be no broadband packages for companies to sell as it will be offered for free 

 

are users and taxpayers not the same thing? 

 

Also taxpayers apparently won’t be liable for the upkeep as it will be a new tax from companies such as Facebook and Google

Anyone remember the end of ISPs when FreeServe started?  No neither do I.

The end of Sky/BT/VM when FreeSat started.

 

This isnt all things to all people but a base level of decent bandwidth

 

[Salisbury Fox]

1 hour ago, HappyHamza said:

So this broadband scheme.  

Effectively takes back the rolling out of infrastructure from companies and puts the state in charge of that bit.  Then let's companies continue to sell packages and add ons.

Perfectly sensible.  

Takes the costs away from users and onto taxpayers effectively meaning that the more you earn the more you contribute. 

I pay a big whack of tax but I am happy with that.  

BT have failed to provide the country with the broadband it needs and it's time government stepped in we all had a stake in infrastructure again. 

I honestly think you are on the wind up

[pleatout]

1 hour ago, HappyHamza said:

So this broadband scheme.  

Effectively takes back the rolling out of infrastructure from companies and puts the state in charge of that bit.  Then let's companies continue to sell packages and add ons.

Perfectly sensible.  

Takes the costs away from users and onto taxpayers effectively meaning that the more you earn the more you contribute. 

I pay a big whack of tax but I am happy with that.  

BT have failed to provide the country with the broadband it needs and it's time government stepped in we all had a stake in infrastructure again. 

Look at the way the cable companies (now mostly Virgin) have built their network.  The private sector will cherry pick, and why wouldnt they?  But to provide universal  access needs government.

[Salisbury Fox]

11 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Anyone remember the end of ISPs when FreeServe started?  No neither do I.

The end of Sky/BT/VM when FreeSat started.

 

This isnt all things to all people but a base level of decent bandwidth

 

Perhaps you could explain the effect of large scale nationalisation and setting the price setting by the government will have on investment. 

[Milo]

11 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Look at the way the cable companies (now mostly Virgin) have built their network.  The private sector will cherry pick, and why wouldnt they?  But to provide universal  access needs government.

And it's paid for by....?

 

Taxing Google, Apple, Amazon? I wouldn't put my house on those companies suddenly rolling over to let Jezza and Mad McDonnell tickle their tummies. Would you?

 

I think this Government is pretty shit. I think Tories have been in a weird quasi-comfort zone for far too long. They've had opportunities to make things better and they have chosen not to. (non-Brexit, regular government type stuff, i mean)

 

I prefer left leaning, liberal policy makers...but this Labour set-up is a mad-eyed 1970's soft communist/hard socialist bunch of lunatics. Really, they are.

 

I've said before - give me a wet-behind-the-ears, bright eyed, gung-ho, (pre-nutter) Blair and I'd be all for it. Corbyn? McDonnel? Abbott?      

[pleatout]

12 minutes ago, Milo said:

And it's paid for by....?

 

Taxing Google, Apple, Amazon? I wouldn't put my house on those companies suddenly rolling over to let Jezza and Mad McDonnell tickle their tummies. Would you?

 

I think this Government is pretty shit. I think Tories have been in a weird quasi-comfort zone for far too long. They've had opportunities to make things better and they have chosen not to. (non-Brexit, regular government type stuff, i mean)

 

I prefer left leaning, liberal policy makers...but this Labour set-up is a mad-eyed 1970's soft communist/hard socialist bunch of lunatics. Really, they are.

 

I've said before - give me a wet-behind-the-ears, bright eyed, gung-ho, (pre-nutter) Blair and I'd be all for it. Corbyn? McDonnel? Abbott?      

find it hard to disagree.  Im  not a corbynite, not a labour party supporter but centre-left.

 

I agree that the big tech comapnies wont roll over.  I was speaking to someone in Google the other day.  They want to sell all sorts of tech ChromeBooks, Alexa etc into the public sector.  Thats where they see huge growth.  I guess they have an incentive to pay up.

 

This is the 1st half decent different, innovative policy any party has come up with.  The criticisms seem to be unions, big companies wont pay their taxes and it will put put isps out of business.  Sorry, i dont go with any of that.  The productivity gains, green gains of faster links, less commuting, innovation etc make it worth a go for me combined with the lack of innovation and investment from BT for the last 30 years.

Edited 15 November 2019 by pleatout

[LiberalFox]

Feel like there's so many shit arguments going round one way or another over the broadband thing 

[Milo]

13 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Feel like there's so many shit arguments going round one way or another over the broadband thing 

Agree. 
 

So let’s talk about Brexit

[Foxin_Mad]

2 hours ago, pleatout said:

The retail part of BT isnt bankrupt without OpenReach, it will have to compete (as it is supposed to do) with Sky and Virgin Media.  BT have bought up most of the rest of the competiton.

 

OpenReach will continue to provide wholesale links - it isnt just broadband that runs over their infrastructure.  Why do you think you HAVE to have a phoneline and pay for phone services.  There is NO technical reason, it's a massive money spinner for all broadband providers.  Of course Virgin and TalkTalk (sorry BT) have value.  They can always do what the private sector does best - better value, more features, faster speeds, better customer service etc.

 

I love the way you prove my point and draw a parallel with  Deutsche Telekom.  OpenReach are an appalling company to deal with.  I very much doubt you have ever had to deal with them, as a member of the public you cant, you aren't allowed to.  If you work for a Telco you will know how bad they are.  They are living in the 1970's.  You get what you are given, when we say.  Oh and if you try to complain, you cant.  OfCom cant and your Telco cant.

 

This country should have had a decent network years ago.  Anyone running their broadband on aluminium cables?  Installed during the copper shortages after the war.  21st century network my *rse.

Really it is..... Who the hell is going to pay BT retail or Sky or Virgin for broadband when you can get it for free? Only an idiot I should think. They are all bankrupt,  their business is gone. If the competitors are paying to use Openreaches network or running their own it's not cost effective even if you have the best customer service.

 

I deal with openreach frequently as I work in communications, I am concerned by this. I also deal with Deutsche Telekom and would rather deal with Openreach any day of the week, who have got a lot better in recent years, mainly due to the old unionised socialist dinosaurs retiring! So what we need to fix all the bad stuff is erm...more government interference.

 

BT ain't perfect but Labours front bench dont have a GCSE or a job in the real world between them. Do you really think they would be better? Do you remember pre privatised BT when you had to wait 6 months for a line?

 

The aluminium cables you speak of....installed by nationalised BT/GPO and maintained by the for years. Why didn't they sort it then if they are so bloody brilliant?

 

It's a very dangerous game seizing business and will lead to everyone being poorer.

 

There isn't a first world nation that seizes and nationalises business at a cost it determines, the best parallel is....well Venezuela! And that went well. The country Corbyn and McDonnell champion and refuse to condemn, the world biggest basket case.

 

You socialists ain't seen nothing till you have seen people committing murder for bog roll.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, LiberalFox said:

Feel like there's so many shit arguments going round one way or another over the broadband thing 

I agree, the supposed benefits are uninspired and the supposed opposition is overstated. It’s not particularly rousing or interesting policy either way.

 

[Lionator]

37 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I agree, the supposed benefits are uninspired and the supposed opposition is overstated. It’s not particularly rousing or interesting policy either way.

 

It gets people talking which is what Labour need. Their policies are far too radical for the moment though and they need to understand that. Offer a progressive manifesto on the environment, NHS, immigration and social welfare with an attractive leader and it's an open goal to number 10. This manifesto will be too radical for the UK in 2019. The country (or the people that labour need to impress) is too content and settled with the status quo, even though the majority claim to be fed up of the status quo.  Most of Labour's proposed policies are similarly implemented across different parts of Western Europe, and this is a message that Corbyn really needs to hammer home, there is modern day evidence that these policies are successful in a well run society. The Tories offer nothing right now other than 'getting Brexit done' and 'we're not Jeremy Corbyn'. They offer absolutely nothing. 9 years of screaming mediocrity, marginalisation and austerity, it's not going to suddenly end. Sadly (or gladly for a majority), Corbyn is damaged goods and the country is not psychologically ready for his left wing, democratic socialist policies.  

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It gets people talking which is what Labour need. Their policies are far too radical for the moment though and they need to understand that. Offer a progressive manifesto on the environment, NHS, immigration and social welfare with an attractive leader and it's an open goal to number 10. This manifesto will be too radical for the UK in 2019. The country (or the people that labour need to impress) is too content and settled with the status quo, even though the majority claim to be fed up of the status quo.  Most of Labour's proposed policies are similarly implemented across different parts of Western Europe, and this is a message that Corbyn really needs to hammer home, there is modern day evidence that these policies are successful in a well run society. The Tories offer nothing right now other than 'getting Brexit done' and 'we're not Jeremy Corbyn'. They offer absolutely nothing. 9 years of screaming mediocrity, marginalisation and austerity, it's not going to suddenly end. Sadly (or gladly for a majority), Corbyn is damaged goods and the country is not psychologically ready for his left wing, democratic socialist policies.  

I’m pretty indifferent where Corbyn is concerned to be honest. I’m certainly not opposed to a sweep of nationalisation, I do see merit to most of it. Maybe because I’ve always had reasonable broadband speeds it’s just not something I value.

I know I’ve said it before but the two main parties are really unappealing right now, if this wasn’t about brexit there is very little chance I would vote for either.

[Salisbury Fox]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Most of Labour's proposed policies are similarly implemented across different parts of Western Europe, and this is a message that Corbyn really needs to hammer home, there is modern day evidence that these policies are successful in a well run society. 

No way near on the scale that Labour are suggesting, and certainly not from the same economic position that the UK finds itself in. The level of borrowing this is predicated on is based on low interest rates which are unlikely to remain low given the level of debt we have and what will be our perceived questionable ability to pay it back.  
 

Our credit rating is already under threat before even more spunking on the national credit card.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/moodys-downgrades-uks-credit-outlook-after-brexit-paralysis-11857899

 

[Izzy]

The broadband is shit in my village and I desperately need fibre as I work from home a lot and need a good speed for Skype, Zoom calls etc.

 

But I can't be doing with Corbyn at any price and just can't see myself voting Labour.

 

Dilema...

[pleatout]

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Really it is..... Who the hell is going to pay BT retail or Sky or Virgin for broadband when you can get it for free? Only an idiot I should think. They are all bankrupt,  their business is gone. If the competitors are paying to use Openreaches network or running their own it's not cost effective even if you have the best customer service.

by that logic we would all still be using dial-up from freeserve.

 

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

I deal with openreach frequently as I work in communications, I am concerned by this. I also deal with Deutsche Telekom and would rather deal with Openreach any day of the week, who have got a lot better in recent years, mainly due to the old unionised socialist dinosaurs retiring! So what we need to fix all the bad stuff is erm...more government interference.

I deal with OpenReach daily.  Arrogant beyond belief.  Entitle monopoly that has realised that customers  cant go elsewhere

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

BT ain't perfect but Labours front bench dont have a GCSE or a job in the real world between them. Do you really think they would be better? Do you remember pre privatised BT when you had to wait 6 months for a line?

Get one of openreaches jobsworths (there are many, and they are all unionised dinosaurs) and you'll wait a lot longer than 6 months. It took me that long to get a phone line in a new build. No postcode no line.  It's a new build there is no post code, I can give you the full address though.  no postcode no line.  this isnt a one off, it's everytime.

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

The aluminium cables you speak of....installed by nationalised BT/GPO and maintained by the for years. Why didn't they sort it then if they are so bloody brilliant?

They were installed when there was a worldwide shortage of copper in the 70's.  BT was privatised in the 1980's and 30 odd years later they havent been replaced, thanks for making my point for me.  

 

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

It's a very dangerous game seizing business and will lead to everyone being poorer.

By that logic selling them off made us all richer - nope, dont recall that happening

 

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

There isn't a first world nation that seizes and nationalises business at a cost it determines, the best parallel is....well Venezuela! And that went well. The country Corbyn and McDonnell champion and refuse to condemn, the world biggest basket case.

How many privately owned legal monopolies exist in 1st world nations?

 

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

 

You socialists ain't seen nothing till you have seen people committing murder for bog roll.

 

what?

 

[SecretPro]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

The broadband is shit in my village and I desperately need fibre as I work from home a lot and need a good speed for Skype, Zoom calls etc.

 

But I can't be doing with Corbyn at any price and just can't see myself voting Labour.

 

Dilema...

Imagine voting for Boris though. Take the free broadband.

[ozleicester]

toilet in every house ive ever been in... has been gender neutral

[Mark_w]

8 hours ago, Izzy said:

The broadband is shit in my village and I desperately need fibre as I work from home a lot and need a good speed for Skype, Zoom calls etc.

 

But I can't be doing with Corbyn at any price and just can't see myself voting Labour.

 

Dilema...

What in particular is it about Corbyn out of interest?

[Izzy]

40 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

What in particular is it about Corbyn out of interest?

I don’t trust him to run the economy. I think he’ll lead us into recession, piss off our allies and partners and Fvck businesses over. 

[lgfualol]

Lol 

 

*Couldnt find another source before anyone gets upset it is a video from a lefty paper.