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Guest MattP

FT General Election Poll 2019

By Guest MattP, in General Chat

FT General Election 2019  

501 members have voted

  1. 1. Which party will be getting your vote?

    • Conservative
      155
    • Labour
      188
    • Liberal Democrats
      93
    • Brexit Party
      17
    • Green Party
      26
    • Other
      22

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

I'm sure I read it had been put on the back burner until after the election. 

 

Along with that Russia report! 

 

I imagine that's the case for any Westminster investigation as parliament is shut for the election, obviously,

I think the relevant bit of national govt had also said that no money had been paid improperly to Arcuri from national funds.

 

Not so sure about the Greater London Authority, though.....

That's presumably still operating and that was the main area of controversy, wasn't it?

Allegations that Boris had improperly got Arcuri involved in GLA business trips/schemes to promote her business - that was the suggestion, wasn't it?

 

Hopefully Sadiq Khan will find something incriminating lurking in a box file or whatever. 

Or maybe Arcuri will have some beans to spill.....hell hath no fury and all that. ;)

 

Not sure anyone will care, mind. I reckon a lot of voters just assume that all politicians are crooked.....a sad reflection of our times (and probably untrue of most politicians, regardless of party) .

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Jennifer Arcuri is back.... lol https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50450167

 

"During [an] interview to be aired later, Ms Arcuri addressed the now prime minister directly, saying: "I've been nothing but loyal, faithful, supportive, and a true confidante of yours. "I've kept your secrets, and I've been your friend.

"And I don't understand why you've blocked me and ignored me as if I was some fleeting one-night stand or some girl that you picked up at a bar because I wasn't - and you know that.

"And I'm terribly heartbroken by the way that you have cast me aside like I am some gremlin." lol

 

Anyone know what's happening with the investigations into whether Boris used his public position to give her inappropriate commercial opportunities?

 

That's the important bit, amusing as the sleaze about the roaming member of the Member for Uxbridge might be....

How lucky is Boris? 

 

Stuff like this turns up on the same weekend Andrew does his interview.

 

The old Clough adage can apply to politics as well as football.

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HappyHamza

HappyHamza

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

5 hours ago, Strokes said:

It makes me smile when people post that sort of guff. Like they have ever entered the debate to be enlightened themselves. Spades of arrogance.

 

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Polarisation is what it is, it's more obvious now in the UK and in other places than it used to be and I think it's possible to accept that while at the same time having the self-awareness that you yourself are polarised on some issues and are therefore contributing to the problem.

I do recognise it. I haven't denied it. But my point remains that nobody is changing their minds over anything. 

Edited by HappyHamza
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Mike Oxlong

Mike Oxlong

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MattP said:

How lucky is Boris? 

 

Stuff like this turns up on the same weekend Andrew does his interview.

 

The old Clough adage can apply to politics as well as football.

I don’t believe  “if there’s grass on it you should play on it” is now considered to be sound advice

 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

 

 

I do recognise it. I haven't denied it. But my point remains that nobody is changing their minds over anything. 

Yeah, I figured you had, that's what I was driving at.

 

Really don't think it's arrogant to point out just how polarised and frankly stuck discourse is right now if one then acknowledges they contribute to it too through their own views.

 

All of that being said, lamenting it is all well and good but there also needs to be ideas going forward on how to somehow make it right...and on that I have absolutely no idea.

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HappyHamza

HappyHamza

Posted
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, I figured you had, that's what I was driving at.

 

Really don't think it's arrogant to point out just how polarised and frankly stuck discourse is right now if one then acknowledges they contribute to it too through their own views.

 

All of that being said, lamenting it is all well and good but there also needs to be ideas going forward on how to somehow make it right...and on that I have absolutely no idea.

The problem is that neither side want to look at actual evidence. 

 

Nobody wants to go beyond the front page of the paper that tells them what they want to hear. 

I suspect it's been this way for some time. 

 

Take the economic crisis.  I had a disagreement with Fox the other day where he (as usual) tried to claim that a global crisis was the fault of labour.  The Tory party has been very successful in leading people to believe that a relatively modest deficit pre-crisis was the reason we got hit quite hard. Its quite easy to sell that story and it has stuck with most people. But it isn't true. But minds are made up and will not accept the possibility that they are wrong. 

 

We have a government that is actively hiding information by not releasing brexit economic impact assessments and the Russia report but if people have chosen that team they will come up with reasons why it's fine. It isn't fine. 

 

We have people that use the same words as their favoured politicians to describe lies and deceit and then, when somebody like Boris simply changes tack leaving all his previous lies in his wake, they just change with him and start arguing the exact opposite of what they were previously arguing without even questioning themselves (thinking that a different customs arrangement in NI to the UK was something we couldn't possibly have, for example).

 

I don't get it.

 

There's only a fairly small number of people that actually read this thread.  So why is everybody taking politician type positions as if they are personally going to affect the outcome?

 

There's virtually no honest discussion of policy here at all which is a great shame when it's the fundamental way in which politics affects the world.  

Edited by HappyHamza
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Milo

Milo

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HappyHamza said:

The problem is that neither side want to look at actual evidence. 

 

Nobody wants to go beyond the front page of the paper that tells them what they want to hear. 

I suspect it's been this way for some time. 

 

Take the economic crisis.  I had a disagreement with Fox the other day where he (as usual) tried to claim that a global crisis was the fault of labour.  The Tory party has been very successful in leading people to believe that a relatively modest deficit pre-crisis was the reason we got hit quite hard. Its quite easy to sell that story and it has stuck with most people. But it isn't true. But minds are made up and will not accept the possibility that they are wrong. 

 

We have a government that is actively hiding information by not releasing brexit economic impact assessments and the Russia report but if people have chosen that team they will come up with reasons why it's fine. It isn't fine. 

 

We have people that use the same words as their favoured politicians to describe lies and deceit and then, when somebody like Boris simply changes tack leaving all his previous lies in his wake, they just change with him and start arguing the exact opposite of what they were previously arguing without even questioning themselves (thinking that a different customs arrangement in NI to the UK was something we couldn't possibly have, for example).

 

I don't get it.

 

There's only a fairly small number of people that actually read this thread.  So why is everybody taking politician type positions as if they are personally going to affect the outcome?

 

There's virtually no honest discussion of policy here at all which is a great shame when it's the fundamental way in which politics affects the world.  

So, I know that this is the GE thread, but it appears that you want to kick up a bit of a fuss about (among other things) Brexit. 

 

The past couple of posts that you have contributed make it seem like you really want a bit of a fight, but are struggling for people to fight with. (You appear to have taken a pretty entrenched position, moaning about people that have an entrenched position) 

 

Personally, if this GE wasn't so important re Brexit, I wouldn't bother voting..and I'm sure I'm not alone. It really is about choosing the least worse candidate at the moment...and there are a gazzillion reasons why neither of the main players should be elected. But we are where we are.

 

I don't get it, either

  

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Milo

Milo

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HappyHamza said:

The problem is that neither side want to look at actual evidence. 

 

Nobody wants to go beyond the front page of the paper that tells them what they want to hear. 

I suspect it's been this way for some time. 

 

Take the economic crisis.  I had a disagreement with Fox the other day where he (as usual) tried to claim that a global crisis was the fault of labour.  The Tory party has been very successful in leading people to believe that a relatively modest deficit pre-crisis was the reason we got hit quite hard. Its quite easy to sell that story and it has stuck with most people. But it isn't true. But minds are made up and will not accept the possibility that they are wrong. 

 

We have a government that is actively hiding information by not releasing brexit economic impact assessments and the Russia report but if people have chosen that team they will come up with reasons why it's fine. It isn't fine. 

 

We have people that use the same words as their favoured politicians to describe lies and deceit and then, when somebody like Boris simply changes tack leaving all his previous lies in his wake, they just change with him and start arguing the exact opposite of what they were previously arguing without even questioning themselves (thinking that a different customs arrangement in NI to the UK was something we couldn't possibly have, for example).

 

I don't get it.

 

There's only a fairly small number of people that actually read this thread.  So why is everybody taking politician type positions as if they are personally going to affect the outcome?

 

There's virtually no honest discussion of policy here at all which is a great shame when it's the fundamental way in which politics affects the world.  

And I massively disagree with that - personality politics has been around waaaaay longer than policy politics 

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SheppyFox

SheppyFox

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bovril said:

It's had unprecedented success in the past, so yeah why not. 

As has liberalism and labour.

 

All prime ministers and governments in modern memory have ended in failure. We as a country need a radical change of approach, a no nonsense business approach in order to fix where we find ourselves. Our society rewards weakness and laziness. It Promotes excuses as to why we can’t rather than reasons as to why we can. So on and so forth,  I’m ahead of my time in my thinking, things must get far far worse before we’ll realise as a majority the measures required to get better.

Edited by SheppyFox
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twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet

Posted
Posted

I think as a nation we are more polarised than ever and more entitled and more concerned with our own rights. Your right to de offended is more important than my right to offend and vice versa. Milliband was to far right  towards Thatcher and Corbyn is too far left towards Stalin for many moderate labour voters coupled with Corbyns perceived pro IRA past . With Boris spending likethe is no tomorrow before the election was called it the reverse of Milliband and Cameron they where vying to out cut each other these two what to see who can spend the most. And Gordon Brown promised to end Boom and Bust economics.

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Milo

Milo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I find the polarisation debate quite interesting. Are we more polarised as a nation now than we have been in the past? Are we maybe exposed to more people with differing views than we have been previously?

 

Pre-2000's we didn't really have this mechanism to air our views in a (fairly) safe manner. I think people generally were drawn to their own and if somebody started kicking off about politics in the pub, dinner party, or wherever, they were either shut down or given an eye-rolling "It's only Fred spouting his mad views again" type response. 

 

These forums give a vague legitimacy to some of our views that may not necessarily represent all that we are, and once our opinions are laid out in black and white, without the nuances of tone, body language and delivery, we maybe feel more inclined to defend them more strongly than we would in other situations.

 

I think I'm a fairly laid back kind of bloke, but I've re-read some of my posts on here and they can come across as infantile, defensive, antagonistic, arrogant, crass and just plain nonsense.

Pretty much all of the topics covered I would be happy to discuss in person and I think I am normal enough to be able to have a one on one with someone that I don't agree with in a fairly civilised manner.     

 

So, we may be a bit more polarised, but maybe its an effect of the way we communicate now, rather than what we have to say?

    

Edited by Milo
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

FT is majority labour? That explains a lot. 24% liberal fairies? Bloody hell fire. Right wing hard line, no nonsense governing is required to restore Great Britain.

 

4 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

As has liberalism and labour.

 

All prime ministers and governments in modern memory have ended in failure. We as a country need a radical change of approach, a no nonsense business approach in order to fix where we find ourselves. Our society rewards weakness and laziness. It Promotes excuses as to why we can’t rather than reasons as to why we can. So on and so forth,  I’m ahead of my time in my thinking, things must get far far worse before we’ll realise as a majority the measures required to get better.

...unsure if this is ironic or actually sincere? I mean, I know social Darwinism has had a bit of an uptick of late, but...

 

 

2 hours ago, Milo said:

I find the polarisation debate quite interesting. Are we more polarised as a nation now than we have been in the past? Are we maybe exposed to more people with differing views than we have been previously?

 

Pre-2000's we didn't really have this mechanism to air our views in a (fairly) safe manner. I think people generally were drawn to their own and if somebody started kicking off about politics in the pub, dinner party, or wherever, they were either shut down or given an eye-rolling "It's only Fred spouting his mad views again" type response. 

 

These forums give a vague legitimacy to some of our views that may not necessarily represent all that we are, and once our opinions are laid out in black and white, without the nuances of tone, body language and delivery, we maybe feel more inclined to defend them more strongly than we would in other situations.

 

I think I'm a fairly laid back kind of bloke, but I've re-read some of my posts on here and they can come across as infantile, defensive, antagonistic, arrogant, crass and just plain nonsense.

Pretty much all of the topics covered I would be happy to discuss in person and I think I am normal enough to be able to have a one on one with someone that I don't agree with in a fairly civilised manner.     

 

So, we may be a bit more polarised, but maybe its an effect of the way we communicate now, rather than what we have to say?

    

This is purely speculative on my part, but I reckon it's perhaps a little of column A and a little of column B.

 

As you say, text-based conversation (which is what conversation is relying upon more and more, despite the increasing ease of video communication over large distances) does not really lend itself well to deep conversation when you're absent tone, body language and delivery. I, for one, do not think I dig out the sarcasm half as much in a face to face conversation as it appears that I do here. So, I do think it's fair that the way we communicate does have something to do with it all.

 

However, over the last few years, that there have been tough times for a lot of people in a lot of developed countries has IMO led to what it did in the past: people more ready to circle the wagons with respect to their personal ideology, to "defend what they have/are" and to be more sure that only the plan they themselves have can make things right again. Such polarisation doesn't tend to happen (as much) in more prosperous times, which says a lot about the seemingly classical human response to stressful situations, to be honest. So I think it's a sign of the times, too.

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Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Labour's £10/hr plan is for it to come in next year, and include all workers of any age. Tory's £10.50/hr plan is to come in over 5 years for workers over the age of 21. One is planned by a party looking to raises corporation tax to 28%, one is planned by a party looking to keep corporation tax at 19%.

 

Not really the same thing to anyone without an agenda to push I guess. 

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