Are We Better than Our 15/16 Season?

[Cecchini1976]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

We've been relegation battlers since mid December though so the players can't be that good. All 11 of the 2015-16 would easily get in our current side. I'd dream of players who do it every week rather than Maddison, Tielemans, Chilwell, Barnes or Perez only turning up once every 4 games.

But we aren’t relegation battlers we are 3rd, so why didn’t the 15/16 team challenge for the title in 14/15 and 16/17? I’m confused mate. What are your expectations? Leicester City challenging for a top 4 place and champions league football, a cup semi and a cup 1/4 final. So Simpson is better than pereira? Fuchs better than chillwel? Morgan and Huth better than Evans and cags? Need I go on? The 15/16 team was a miracle and the greatest win of all time in any sport, it is that because it was a miracle with the team we had. They are legends. Last season we finished over 20 points from the top 6, we are now 3rd and in the mix to qualify for the champions league for the 2nd time in our history. As a former leicester manager once said, you have delusions of grandeur. Our budget is not in the same ball park as the traditional big 6.  If we finish in the top 4 will you complain about form? As the final table never lies 

[CosbehFox]

15 minutes ago, Sampson said:

We've been relegation battlers since mid December though so the players can't be that good. 

Not picking on you because I've seen this elsewhere. 

 

Based on this and last season, we wouldn't be battling relegation. If we take from that Norwich game, we'd have 45 points for the season. Which would have us 13th last season. 

[Sampson]

11 minutes ago, Cecchini1976 said:

But we aren’t relegation battlers we are 3rd, so why didn’t the 15/16 team challenge for the title in 14/15 and 16/17? I’m confused mate. What are your expectations? Leicester City challenging for a top 4 place and champions league football, a cup semi and a cup 1/4 final. So Simpson is better than pereira? Fuchs better than chillwel? Morgan and Huth better than Evans and cags? Need I go on? The 15/16 team was a miracle and the greatest win of all time in any sport, it is that because it was a miracle with the team we had. They are legends. Last season we finished over 20 points from the top 6, we are now 3rd and in the mix to qualify for the champions league for the 2nd time in our history. As a former leicester manager once said, you have delusions of grandeur. Our budget is not in the same ball park as the traditional big 6.  If we finish in the top 4 will you complain about form? As the final table never lies 

Because we're not comparing the 14/15 side or 16/17 side. What are you on about?

 

Yes 15-16 Fuchs was miles better than 19-20 Chilwell and 15-16 Morgan and Huth were miles better than 19-20 Soyuchu and Evans. For an entire year their performances were consistently at a much higher level.

 

Wes Morgan was the best centre-back in the country for an entire year. Christian Fuchs was the best left-back in the country for an entire year. How are people forgetting that already? It's only 4 years ago. We're not comparing 16-17 or 19-20 Fuchs or Morgan with current day Chilwell or Evans. It wasn't some fluke.

 

I have no idea why some people here seem to have turned into Spurs or Arsenal fans who think our players were just a bunch of lucky chancers. 

Edited 1 July 2020 by Sampson

[Scotch]

Ofcourse we are a better team now. No question. 

 

Take that title winning team, put them against a current Brighton or Watford that sit in against them and see how they do? 

 

Teams look at us differently than that season and as a result play differently against us. 

[Pliskin]

That team had bottle. This team has none. 

[Hammo]

Seriously??

 

This thread is now surely defunct.

[Cecchini1976]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Because we're not comparing the 14/15 side or 16/17 side. What are you on about?

 

Yes 15-16 Fuchs was miles better than 19-20 Chilwell and 15-16 Morgan and Huth were miles better than 19-20 Soyuchu and Evans. For an entire year their performances were consistently at a much higher level.

 

Wes Morgan was the best centre-back in the country for an entire year. Christian Fuchs was the best left-back in the country for an entire year. How are people forgetting that already? It's only 4 years ago. We're not comparing 16-17 or 19-20 Fuchs or Morgan with current day Chilwell or Evans. It wasn't some fluke.

 

I have no idea why some people here seem to have turned into Spurs or Arsena fans who think our players were just a bunch of lucky chancers. 

Wow your deluded. We deserved the title in 15/16, but everything went our way, like everything. I’m assuming at the start of that season you knew we would win the league with a team full of world class individuals? Best players in the league? Best team that year, not best players. The reason I mention the 2 other seasons as it was mostly the same players. You know the best players in the league as you said? Here is me delighted that the club are trying to build a sustainable model to compete with the big 6 and sitting in the top 4 of the premiere league.

 

out of intrest, where do you think the 15/16 team would finish this season? Obviously above 3rd? The league is so much better now, Man City and Liverpool are arguably the best teams in the world, Chelsea are the Europa cup champions, spurs finished runners up in the champions league, Wolves have an amazing team, Man Utd spend fortunes. 

[Sampson]

18 minutes ago, Cecchini1976 said:

Wow your deluded. We deserved the title in 15/16, but everything went our way, like everything. I’m assuming at the start of that season you knew we would win the league with a team full of world class individuals? Best players in the league? Best team that year, not best players. The reason I mention the 2 other seasons as it was mostly the same players. You know the best players in the league as you said? Here is me delighted that the club are trying to build a sustainable model to compete with the big 6 and sitting in the top 4 of the premiere league.

 

out of intrest, where do you think the 15/16 team would finish this season? Obviously above 3rd? The league is so much better now, Man City and Liverpool are arguably the best teams in the world, Chelsea are the Europa cup champions, spurs finished runners up in the champions league, Wolves have an amazing team, Man Utd spend fortunes. 

Imagine actually calling a Leicester fan deluded for thinking the 15-16 team had some good players.

 

Imagine actually watching the 2015-16 Leicester season and thinking it was all luck even emphasising "like everything went our way". Referees were on our side, balls bounced in off people's arses I'm sure. Nothing to do with our players being consistently the best in the country for an entire year of course.

 

You don't get lucky for an entire year. Why are you trying to whitewash our title winning season? You sound really like bitter Spurs and Arsenal fans that season. I can't believe any Leicester fan could be that.

 

Everything you type has nothing to do with anything. No i didn't think we were going to win the league. Then you keep talking about other seasons which have nothing to do with anything. Whether we're trying to be more sustainable than an already ageing team in 15-16 has nothing to do with the discussion either.

 

The discussion is about which side is better 15-16 or 19-20. Nothing to do with any other season.

 

Our players in 15-16 were all individually superb game after game - you're talking about millions of individual desicions a player makes every game over an entire year that is absolutely nothing to do with fluke. To go back to your question 15-16 Fuchs, Morgan and Huth were miles better than 19-20 Chilwell, Evans and Soyunchu because the billions of individual desicions a player makes over an entire season were far far better which is ultimately what football is. That wasn't a fluke.

Edited 1 July 2020 by Sampson

[Cecchini1976]

13 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Imagine actually calling a Leicester fan deluded for thinking the 15-16 team had some good players.

 

Imagine actually watching the 2015-16 Leicester season and thinking it was all luck even emphasising "like everything went our way". Referees were on our side, balls bounced in off people's arses I'm sure. Nothing to do with our players being consistently the best in the country for an entire year of course.

 

You don't get lucky for an entire year. Why are you trying to whitewash our title winning season? You sound really like bitter Spurs and Arsenal fans that season. I can't believe any Leicester fan could be that.

 

Everything you type has nothing to do with anything. No i didn't think we were going to win the league. Then you keep talking about other seasons which have nothing to do with anything. Whether we're trying to be more sustainable than an already ageing team in 15-16 has nothing to do with the discussion either.

 

The discussion is about which side is better 15-16 or 19-20. Nothing to do with any other season.

 

Our players in 15-16 were all individually superb game after game - you're talking about millions of individual desicions a player makes every game over an entire year that is absolutely nothing to do with fluke. To go back to your question 15-16 Fuchs, Morgan and Huth were miles better than 19-20 Chilwell, Evans and Soyunchu because the billions of individual desicions a player makes over an entire season were far far better which is ultimately what football is. That wasn't a fluke.

Yeah ok so I’m not a leicester fan now because I disagree with you? Haha ok. 15/16!was a sporting miracle, even Ranieri said everything went our way. 
 

but you still haven’t answered where you believe that team would be in this seasons league. If you can’t realise that 15/16 everything clicked then you are deluded. As a team we were amazing, but individually they are not better players than this team. Not even close. Kante and Mahrez yes but not the rest. 
 

based on me not being a leicester fan maybe I should stop watching the team I love and refuse to renew my season ticket and erase my 41 years of going to watch my team every week. 

[harpendenfox]

Of course the 15/16 team of champions became the 16/17 team of relegation contenders.

[Sampson]

24 minutes ago, Cecchini1976 said:

Yeah ok so I’m not a leicester fan now because I disagree with you? Haha ok. 15/16!was a sporting miracle, even Ranieri said everything went our way. 
 

but you still haven’t answered where you believe that team would be in this seasons league. If you can’t realise that 15/16 everything clicked then you are deluded. As a team we were amazing, but individually they are not better players than this team. Not even close. Kante and Mahrez yes but not the rest. 
 

based on me not being a leicester fan maybe I should stop watching the team I love and refuse to renew my season ticket and erase my 41 years of going to watch my team every week. 

I think we'd finish 3rd. Probably on around 76 or 77 points as Man City and Liverpool are much stronger now and we wouldn't beat them.

 

We're going round in circles, but to say our current side are not even close as individuals is absolutely whitewashing just how consistently good individual players were in 2015-16.

 

Again, you're using something arbitrary like technical ability as more important over consistent desicion making.

 

No one doubts that Tielrmans and Maddison are more "technically gifted" than Drinkwater for example- in that they have a higher peak attribute to control a football better or a higher peak attribute to turn in tight circles better and make short passes better (but Drinkwater was better at spraying long through-balls).

 

But football is not like a computer game where players have set "ability" and different attributes rated out of 100. Football is just a game about making individual desicions - deciding to hold back, mark a player, choose whether to beat a man or make a pass. Deciding to move an inch further back to get into more space. Every individual player makes millions of these decisions a game. And you can have all the technical ability in the world if you decide to try beat a man by thinking left rather than right or kicking the ball half a centremetre to the right so you give the ball away then it's useless. Plenty of technically gifted players don't make the right decisions often enough and it's desicion making that makes a player good or not. And 2015-16 Drinkwater was simply a much better player than 2019-20 Tielemans or Maddison weighed consistently over an entire season - he'd win his team more points by knowing when to pass, when to defend, when to cover, when to link up with Vardy. Whether he is more technically gifted or not is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 2015-16 Drinkwater was a better individual player than 2019-20 Maddison or Tielemans because of the billions of decisions an individual player makes over an entire year he was far better and much more consistently making the correct ones - at making the right passes, defending at the right time, making forward runs, creating space etc. he was simply  consistently better which is much more important and a much better indicator of a player's consistent qualities over a season than technical ability.

Edited 1 July 2020 by Sampson

[don_danbury]

18 minutes ago, harpendenfox said:

Of course the 15/16 team of champions became the 16/17 team of relegation contenders.

if form carries on the current side will be relegation contenders next season

[Cecchini1976]

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I think we'd finish 3rd. Probably on around 76 or 77 points as Man City and Liverpool are much stronger now and we wouldn't beat them.

 

We're going round in circles, but to say our current side are not even close as individuals is absolutely whitewashing just how consistently good individual players were in 2015-16.

 

Again, you're using something arbitrary like technical ability as more important over consistent desicion making.

 

No one doubts that Tielrmans and Maddison are more "technically gifted" than Drinkwater for example- in that they have a higher peak attribute to control a football better or a higher peak attribute to turn in tight circles better and make short passes better (but Drinkwater was better at spraying long through-balls).

 

But football is not like a computer game where players have set "ability" and different attributes rated out of 100. Football is just a game about making individual desicions - deciding to hold back, mark a player, choose whether to beat a man or make a pass. Deciding to move an inch further back to get into more space. Every individual player makes millions of these decisions a game. And you can have all the technical ability in the world if you decide to try beat a man by thinking left rather than right or kicking the ball half a centremetre to the right so you give the ball away then it's useless. Plenty of technically gifted players don't make the right decisions often enough and it's desicion making that makes a player good or not. And 2015-16 Drinkwater was simply a much better player than 2019-20 Tielemans or Maddison weighed consistently over an entire season - he'd win his team more points by knowing when to pass, when to defend, when to cover, when to link up with Vardy. Whether he is more technically gifted or not is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 2015-16 was a better individual player than 2019-20 Maddison or Tielemans because of the billions of decisions an individual player makes over an entire year he was far better and much more consistently making the correct ones - at making the right passes, defending at the right time, making forward runs, creating space etc. he was simply  consistently better which is much more important and a much better indicator of a player's consistent qualities over a season than technical ability.

3rd very brave call, I would say relegation battle. As soon as teams respected the 15/16 team they dropped deep and nullified us, so I think and it’s my personal opinion we would watch some very boring games. 15/16 team are legends in my eyes but I can’t agree whatsoever that they were good individually, they were good as a team. Sit behind the ball, defend for their lives and counter when they can. Teams that season cam to win against Leicester, now teams come to not lose and hope we get frustrated and nick a goal against the run of play. Leicester 15/16 in a way. 

[Cecchini1976]

6 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

if form carries on the current side will be relegation contenders next season

Or if it doesn’t we qualify for the champions league. 

[Cecchini1976]

18 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

if form carries on the current side will be relegation contenders next season

Personally think the loss of form is about self confidence, we have a very young team and the loses to man city and Liverpool before Xmas put doubt in to the players minds. Unfortunatly you could argue it was both Man City’s and Liverpool’s best performances of the season and made the Leicester players realise how good them 2  actually are. And that experience could and should help improvements next season. That doesn’t mean I think we could challenge, as we could play great and finish 7th and the big six will spend and they have so much more quality in depth than us, they can pull players out when off form and still be as good, unfortunately we can’t do that. 

Edited 1 July 2020 by Cecchini1976

[Sampson]

6 minutes ago, Cecchini1976 said:

3rd very brave call, I would say relegation battle. As soon as teams respected the 15/16 team they dropped deep and nullified us, so I think and it’s my personal opinion we would watch some very boring games. 15/16 team are legends in my eyes but I can’t agree whatsoever that they were good individually, they were good as a team. Sit behind the ball, defend for their lives and counter when they can. Teams that season cam to win against Leicester, now teams come to not lose and hope we get frustrated and nick a goal against the run of play. Leicester 15/16 in a way. 

They didn't nullify us though. We scored, often early after breaking them down. Then were happy to sit back and win 1-0.

 

Again, that's the criticism Spurs and Arsenal fans made of us in the first half of the season that once teams sat back against us we wouldn't be able to beat them. But when they did after the Arsenal game we still kept on beating them.

 

Again, to say that 15-16 were not good individually whatsoever is ridiculous whitewashing and making out that season was some kind of fluke. Those players were all outstanding individually game after game that season. To say they'd be in a relegation battle after putting in consistent performance after consistent performance and making consistently great decision after consistently great desicion is a bit nuts.

 

I don't want to continue this discussion because we're going round in circles but I really do think you're forgetting just how well individual players played that season and trying to be deliberately edgy to make a point about the current side.

[Cecchini1976]

39 minutes ago, Sampson said:

They didn't nullify us though. We scored, often early after breaking them down. Then were happy to sit back and win 1-0.

 

Again, that's the criticism Spurs and Arsenal fans made of us in the first half of the season that once teams sat back against us we wouldn't be able to beat them. But when they did after the Arsenal game we still kept on beating them.

 

Again, to say that 15-16 were not good individually whatsoever is ridiculous whitewashing and making out that season was some kind of fluke. Those players were all outstanding individually game after game that season. To say they'd be in a relegation battle after putting in consistent performance after consistent performance and making consistently great decision after consistently great desicion is a bit nuts.

 

I don't want to continue this discussion because we're going round in circles but I really do think you're forgetting just how well individual players played that season and trying to be deliberately edgy to make a point about the current side.

Your entitled you your opinion, differs to anyone I have ever spoken to before and that’s fans from all teams. But it’s your opinion. But did you go and watch the games in 15/16? We used to have 20% possession and have umpteen shots against us. I don’t remember us breaking one team down. You obviously don’t think it was one of sports greatest achievements, the stars didn’t align perfectly l, but it was down not to a good team, but to how amazing the individual players were and was to be expected based on that. But that’s my opinion and I am entitled to that like you are with yours. But my opinion means  must be a spurs or arsenal fan 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

That’s the thing tho, that 15/16 team didn’t play well every game, they just knew how to win nearly every game. 

Have I missed something, is this team playing well very game?

[Captain...]

Mahrez was the difference maker, he was an absolute genius who could turn nothing into something, we built the team around his strengths Simpson as a premier league player was pretty average as a consistent defensive minded full back allowing Mahrez to shine he was the perfect team player, similar to Okazaki and Albrighton. Perfect team players to make a system work that only worked because Mahrez, Vardy and Kante we're so good.

 

Mahrez was the key, the ability to beat a man and create space with a touch and swerve is what we're missing. You couldn't let 15/16 Mahrez run at you one on one, but you couldn't over commit because then you're leaving Vardy free or Albrighton with a ton of space. 

 

Individually Ricardo, Barnes, Maddison, Tielemans are better footballers than Simpson, Albrighton, Okazaki, Drinkwater.

 

Ndidi, Chilwell, Evans, Cags probably about equal to Kante, Fuchs, Morgan, Huth. This is obviously arguable, but I don't think there is much in it. 15/16 Kante probably edges it over Ndidi, but it's quite close.

 

The difference is Mahrez vs Perez it is so clearly Mahrez, just for pure outrageous skill. You couldn't defend against him, even on off days he would occupy 2 or 3 defenders, barely get a kick then win the game.

 

15/16 team will never be matched by a Leicester side over a season, but it was the team as a unit that won't be matched. Individuals have been matched and surpassed by this current team. As a team earlier this season we even looked better than 15/16 Leicester, but to keep it going a whole season without the strength in depth of Man City or Liverpool is so tough.

[fuchsntf]

7 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

That’s not the point I’m making.

 

I’m saying that I think this team has more talented individuals in it (bar Mahrez, who is the outstanding individual when you list both sides) but they don’t have that same mentality to grind out games. How many times have we played poorly and won this season? I can’t think of many games we’ve come away with 3 points and thought we didn’t deserve them. 
 

What I was saying by that was, the 15/16 team didn’t have to play well to put points on the board. If we don’t play well then our intricate passing game and high press doesn’t often come off. This side has to be playing well to win. 

I agree with every Single One of you...

But remember this ...that title was full of experienced Traveller players,who built up that mental strength,First as individuals,over many seasons,then found

That they found their like,in those seasons Building upto that title season,Plus a couple of missing links,complimented the mental & Technical Skills to Drive that New found team spirit und Team character forward...

 

This New team,and individual players,Havent yet experienced those character Building scars.We have a Mixed compot of Experience and brittle but Technical equipped youth.That have come together,but still have some Need of patience , time ,including  reassesments before they can come to reach the levels of consistence strengths that,that  titleTeam  shown us...

 

But for the First Time in our PL history,we have created a basis to really compete for Top 6 on a Stronger ,consistent regularity.No matter what names are in

The blue-foxes shirt.  Are we really so blind,we cant See that we are still in that long winding path,still gathering as manager and squad of Now and Tomorrow

hard experiences.. This drop of Form ,and its long period,just shows,knowing we have decent players & ideas,its going to be a hard slog before We can realise

those higher plains of consistency..We havent yet leant Now to Grind out wins,and not draws,in fact there are other goals & targets of Club and squad building

we still Need to go through..

Comparing ourselves with Manutd ,Chelsea and the alike,hoping through cynical,incompetent,over zealous fan-banter,we have reached a Level that we

Havent yet earnt...

Our very Real  first 2 seasons,where we have had our club,showing top 6 potential...We have seen Quality,experienced and young potential quality players,take us to those dream hights...That title laid some good foundations,and opened up a new era ...

Sit back,relax and enjoy the ride....We are Chasing Top 4 with a mixed,still developing squad,we have a strong depth in squad,for 'Also-rans'

But Not comparable to highly organised squads of the Top teams...many overrated the top clubs new problems,many  underrated with slimey,snidey remarks,

the Two new young managers...forgetting The Real Top Organisation behind them, seemingly rather  willing to follow the claptrap of media headline,agenda Seeking Journalists...

 

 

 

 

[deanolegend1989]

14 hours ago, Captain... said:

Mahrez was the difference maker, he was an absolute genius who could turn nothing into something, we built the team around his strengths Simpson as a premier league player was pretty average as a consistent defensive minded full back allowing Mahrez to shine he was the perfect team player, similar to Okazaki and Albrighton. Perfect team players to make a system work that only worked because Mahrez, Vardy and Kante we're so good.

 

Mahrez was the key, the ability to beat a man and create space with a touch and swerve is what we're missing. You couldn't let 15/16 Mahrez run at you one on one, but you couldn't over commit because then you're leaving Vardy free or Albrighton with a ton of space. 

 

Individually Ricardo, Barnes, Maddison, Tielemans are better footballers than Simpson, Albrighton, Okazaki, Drinkwater.

 

Ndidi, Chilwell, Evans, Cags probably about equal to Kante, Fuchs, Morgan, Huth. This is obviously arguable, but I don't think there is much in it. 15/16 Kante probably edges it over Ndidi, but it's quite close.

 

The difference is Mahrez vs Perez it is so clearly Mahrez, just for pure outrageous skill. You couldn't defend against him, even on off days he would occupy 2 or 3 defenders, barely get a kick then win the game.

 

15/16 team will never be matched by a Leicester side over a season, but it was the team as a unit that won't be matched. Individuals have been matched and surpassed by this current team. As a team earlier this season we even looked better than 15/16 Leicester, but to keep it going a whole season without the strength in depth of Man City or Liverpool is so tough.

It’s not even in the same universe. Kante was on another planet to any player in any season. He single handedly won us the league, without him we don’t win.

After he came on as a sub when 0-2 down to Villa in the comeback 3-2 win, he missed 1 game(a 2-2 home draw to West Brom). It was quite clear, even in that game, that he was something special and we wernt the same without him.

Mahrez was good but not even close to the importance of Ngolo.

Edited 2 July 2020 by deanolegend1989

[deanolegend1989]

20 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

That’s the thing tho, that 15/16 team didn’t play well every game, they just knew how to win nearly every game. 

I’d argue they did play well nearly every game, even games we lost. Only a handful in the entire season that I’d say we didn’t play well!

 

Liverpool away we looked really out of sorts and we our worst performance I feel.

We were pretty poor away at Villa(even that is harsh, 1st half we were fine), away and home to Bournemouth and Newcastle at home sticks in mind as we were poor(but still in control).

We were so much better defensively and so much better going forward! We were better all round.

Early on we we poor defending at times but were so dynamic we could score to bail us out. We had so much pace, flair and energy teams couldn’t cope. The raw pace of Kante, Vardy and Mahrez was frightening for anyone. Now we’re slow and pedestrian.

No team could stop us or figure us out.

If they parked the bus they couldn’t break us down so could only pray for a 0-0..only a few got it. If they came out , we’d destroy them. Only Arsenal beat us in a punch for punch game and that was before we got settled full backs and the away game they needed 12 men to beat our 10 men.

 

Now we are no threat passing around but not much actual ability. The ability of our current team is over rated because of the style we try to implement but in reality we’re not very good at it and as a group we’re a lot less mobile and a lot less energy and movement.

The 15/16 team was clinically underrated because of the ‘unpolished’ style but we had 3 world class players in the peak mid 20s years with no strains on their bodies , raw and on fire. If we had a slightly bigger squad and experience that year we’d of probably hit 100 points! We were that good.

[Fox92]

Comparisons to our title winning team were always wrong. Ergh. No chance this team even beats that team.

[Chrysalis]

I think the old team would beat this team in its prime 1-0 with a counter attack goal.

I think the old team if playing the current team with its losing mentality, would win 3-0 or 4-0.

[Oxfordfox83]

4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I think the old team would beat this team in its prime 1-0 with a counter attack goal.

I think the old team if playing the current team with its losing mentality, would win 3-0 or 4-0.

The old Foxestalk would hear us talking about better technical players and more possession meaning we’re a better team and piss themselves that we’ve all turned into Spurs...