Getting brexit done!

[leicsmac]

"Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations"...?

 

Well, I guess that's certainly one way to look at it.

[Guest MattP]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

"Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations"...?

 

Well, I guess that's certainly one way to look at it.

Do you actually think some people want war, poverty and animosity then?

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do you actually think some people want war, poverty and animosity then?

A few, as those things are good for them to maintain the perceived or actual power they have, but that's definitely a small minority.

 

This is more about the sentiment itself being a bit naive as I don't see the UK being friends with, say, Iran or North Korea any time soon.

[Strokes]

26 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do you actually think some people want war, poverty and animosity then?

Where do I sign?

[Innovindil]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Where do I sign?

https://join.labour.org.uk

 

[Sionnach gorm]

Europe is clearly in trouble over Brexit.  Few in Britain are able to see that.  Europe need to keep Britain close for reasons that are obvious; economics, defence.   Right now there are two thoughts in Europe; be hard with Britain, so as to discourage others from considering it.  The other is not to be hard on Britain so as not to alienate it, hurt the European economy and possibly push it towards a more “Atlantic” solution.  
 

The issue of travel, trade, will most likely be taken in a lighter approach by Europe, as it does with non-European member countries like Switzerland.  It will, in due time, be Included in EFTA (European Free Trade Agreement).  

[Guest MattP]

19 minutes ago, Sionnach gorm said:

Europe is clearly in trouble over Brexit.  Few in Britain are able to see that.  Europe need to keep Britain close for reasons that are obvious; economics, defence.   Right now there are two thoughts in Europe; be hard with Britain, so as to discourage others from considering it.  The other is not to be hard on Britain so as not to alienate it, hurt the European economy and possibly push it towards a more “Atlantic” solution.  
 

The issue of travel, trade, will most likely be taken in a lighter approach by Europe, as it does with non-European member countries like Switzerland.  It will, in due time, be Included in EFTA (European Free Trade Agreement).  

They could really have done with the first departure being a nation they weren't too reliant on financially or in terms of trade, a country like Poland or Greece would have perfect for a punishment beating and to be made an example of.

 

The second (or third) biggest brick in wall falling isn't ideal for them at all. They've now got to defend their own interests but also not hurt themselves to any great extent - that our parliament couldn't pass the deal for over three years isnt just a failure of negotiation on this side of the channel.

 

Our policy simply has to be walk away though if they do intend to punish.

Edited 27 January 2020 by MattP

[Countryfox]

Another one getting his 10p’s worth in about the 50p coin ...   good old Alistair Campbell ....  he would ask the shopkeeper for two 20’s and a 10p ....   fvckin pathetic !!   ....   it doesn’t say  “Looooooser !!!” ffs ! ...   if you are really that bothered about it put it in the charity box you tight fisted  tw@t !!
 

And on a separate  note ..  if we lose to Villa tomorrow I’m never going to go to Birmingham again ...   and if I have to use the M6 I’m going to get off before Birmingham and use small A and B roads to navigate round it then rejoin the motorway further north ...  so there !!   That’ll teach em ! ...
 

 

[Guest MattP]

Said it before and I'll say it again.

 

My side used to be the weirdos in the Brexit debate. It's hilarious how mental some of the Europhiles have gone.

 

Even it's a disaster its worth it to see the level of insanity everyone from Lord Adonis to Michael Heseltone to Alistair Campbell managed to hit.

Edited 27 January 2020 by MattP

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Another one getting his 10p’s worth in about the 50p coin ...   good old Alistair Campbell ....  he would ask the shopkeeper for two 20’s and a 10p ....   fvckin pathetic !!   ....   it doesn’t say  “Looooooser !!!” ffs ! ...   if you are really that bothered about it put it in the charity box you tight fisted  tw@t !!
 

And on a separate  note ..  if we lose to Villa tomorrow I’m never going to go to Birmingham again ...   and if I have to use the M6 I’m going to get off before Birmingham and use small A and B roads to navigate round it then rejoin the motorway further north ...  so there !!   That’ll teach em ! ...
 

 

Who actually looks at their notes and coins, mine go hand, wallet/pocket, hand, shop. Although I rarely use cash now anyway.

[Darkon84]

The same people who laughed and laughed at the idea that people wanted to leave to get blue passports back (I'm still yet to meet anyone who actually gave a toss about that), are now crying over a 50 pence piece. It's quite pathetic, and delicious at the same time  

[Mike Oxlong]

Think the shit will really hit the fan in 11 months time when the holidaying Love Island types get a fvckin monstrous data bill mobile phone bill for all their social media use from their sunbeds in the Canaries 

[Voll Blau]

19 hours ago, Sionnach gorm said:

Europe is clearly in trouble over Brexit.  Few in Britain are able to see that.  Europe need to keep Britain close for reasons that are obvious; economics, defence.   Right now there are two thoughts in Europe; be hard with Britain, so as to discourage others from considering it.  The other is not to be hard on Britain so as not to alienate it, hurt the European economy and possibly push it towards a more “Atlantic” solution.  
 

The issue of travel, trade, will most likely be taken in a lighter approach by Europe, as it does with non-European member countries like Switzerland.  It will, in due time, be Included in EFTA (European Free Trade Agreement).  

But Britain doesn't need to keep Europe close for the same reasons? 

[Kopfkino]

Brexit and Boris was supposed to lead to us being Trump's lapdog. First chance Boris gets he ignores Trump and the US. 

 

Tbh madness we haven't listened to them fully on this one, granted we've limited Huawei's involvement but should be working with allies to produce own alternative

Edited 28 January 2020 by Kopfkino

[Innovindil]

12 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Brexit and Boris was supposed to lead to us being Trump's lapdog. First chance Boris gets he ignores Trump and the US. 

 

Tbh madness we haven't listened to them fully on this one, granted we've limited Huawei's involvement but should be working with allies to produce own alternative

I'm torn on this one tbh. I'm not privy to security briefings, but from the snippets on the internet there doesn't seem to be any actual grounds for reeeing over it and it does make me wonder how much of it is genuine concern and how much is trumpet wanting to stick it to China. In the end I'm all for using the best man (or woman, pc Inno new to 2020) for the job, and overall it seems like Huawei are. Plus they'll easily be the cheapest. Producing our own alternative would cost an arm and a leg. If we can use their stuff without risks to security, which seems feasible from our "security experts" then I think I'm slightly leaning towards being for it. 

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Brexit and Boris was supposed to lead to us being Trump's lapdog. First chance Boris gets he ignores Trump and the US. 

 

Tbh madness we haven't listened to them fully on this one, granted we've limited Huawei's involvement but should be working with allies to produce own alternative

 

5 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm torn on this one tbh. I'm not privy to security briefings, but from the snippets on the internet there doesn't seem to be any actual grounds for reeeing over it and it does make me wonder how much of it is genuine concern and how much is trumpet wanting to stick it to China. In the end I'm all for using the best man (or woman, pc Inno new to 2020) for the job, and overall it seems like Huawei are. Plus they'll easily be the cheapest. Producing our own alternative would cost an arm and a leg. If we can use their stuff without risks to security, which seems feasible from our "security experts" then I think I'm slightly leaning towards being for it. 

Pleasantly surprised by Boris' decision-making there and agree with Inno, with the caveat that limited involvement should be the thing across the board - honestly wouldn't trust any of the major world players in the cyber sphere right now, they're all driven by realpolitik. Perhaps that might change as of the end of this year, though.

[Guest MattP]

Chart wars over Brexit hotting up. Ode to Joy at number 2 currently in the Itunes chart, updated 17 million f offs at 3.

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

 

Can I use one of my "Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations" 50p pieces to pay for a "17 million Fvck Offs" download? 

 

Edited 28 January 2020 by Alf Bentley

[Kopfkino]

40 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm torn on this one tbh. I'm not privy to security briefings, but from the snippets on the internet there doesn't seem to be any actual grounds for reeeing over it and it does make me wonder how much of it is genuine concern and how much is trumpet wanting to stick it to China. In the end I'm all for using the best man (or woman, pc Inno new to 2020) for the job, and overall it seems like Huawei are. Plus they'll easily be the cheapest. Producing our own alternative would cost an arm and a leg. If we can use their stuff without risks to security, which seems feasible from our "security experts" then I think I'm slightly leaning towards being for it. 

 

But cost isn't just about the short term accounting cost. It's not even about immediate security concerns. The reason Huawei is the best, biggest, and cheapest is cos the Chinese poured billions into it to wean themselves off relying on Western tech. Now Europe abandons its own companies or those from friendlier nations (Nokia, Ericsson, Cisco, Rakuten, Samsung)or in the UK's case happily lets SoftBank buy Arm to sell onto the Chinese to save a few quid now and leave itself increasingly dependent on the Chinese in the future.

 

Its moronic and far more costly in the long run. 

[Innovindil]

18 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

But cost isn't just about the short term accounting cost. It's not even about immediate security concerns. The reason Huawei is the best, biggest, and cheapest is cos the Chinese poured billions into it to wean themselves off relying on Western tech. Now Europe abandons its own companies or those from friendlier nations (Nokia, Ericsson, Cisco, Rakuten, Samsung)or in the UK's case happily lets SoftBank buy Arm to sell onto the Chinese to save a few quid now and leave itself increasingly dependent on the Chinese in the future.

 

Its moronic and far more costly in the long run. 

And that's probably as far as my give a shits go tbh. When did we stop being a country that didn't want to use the best because of who they are? Pretty much every country has picked out their own slice of the overall pie, America has their medicines, Germany their manufacturing, France their cheese and wine. China have picked communication, which they are excelling at. If the only reason not to use them is an odd case of "they're the bad guys" then I don't get it, surely we already buy enough stuff from China to be dependant on them for certain things already, just like they are dependant on exports to fuel their economy. 

[Kopfkino]

15 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

And that's probably as far as my give a shits go tbh. When did we stop being a country that didn't want to use the best because of who they are? Pretty much every country has picked out their own slice of the overall pie, America has their medicines, Germany their manufacturing, France their cheese and wine. China have picked communication, which they are excelling at. If the only reason not to use them is an odd case of "they're the bad guys" then I don't get it, surely we already buy enough stuff from China to be dependant on them for certain things already, just like they are dependant on exports to fuel their economy. 

When did we stop being a country that wanted to be the best instead of whoring ourselves out to the lowest bidder? Brexit was supposed to be about sovereignty and yet three days before Brexit day we give 35% of key tech infrastructure to a potentially hostile state. Meanwhile we show next to no interest in our own tech industry or R&D such that the extent of our tech industry being Monzo. 

 

Its not even just about surveilance, anybody with an iPhone knows that Apple can basically control when you need a new one and yet here we have the Chinese able to play about with that in our national infrastructure. 

 

Makes me want to go all Corbynista tbh

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

Pleasantly surprised by Boris' decision-making there and agree with Inno, with the caveat that limited involvement should be the thing across the board - honestly wouldn't trust any of the major world players in the cyber sphere right now, they're all driven by realpolitik. Perhaps that might change as of the end of this year, though.

But the limited involvement argument shows its daft. Sure it would have gone well inviting the Sicherheitsdienst to Bletchley Park but only let them have access to the cleaning cupboard. 

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

best, biggest, and cheapest

 

11 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

When did we stop being a country that wanted to be the best instead of whoring ourselves out to the lowest bidder? Brexit was supposed to be about sovereignty and yet three days before Brexit day we give 35% of key tech infrastructure to a potentially hostile state. Meanwhile we show next to no interest in our own tech industry or R&D such that the extent of our tech industry being Monzo. 

 

Its not even just about surveilance, anybody with an iPhone knows that Apple can basically control when you need a new one and yet here we have the Chinese able to play about with that in our national infrastructure. 

 

Makes me want to go all Corbynista tbh

 

Not just the cheapest are they. We asked the US for a viable alternative, one wasn't available. So it's either mitigate the risk and use who's best for the job, or sit with our thumbs up our arses and spend billions waiting for another viable option. 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

But the limited involvement argument shows its daft. Sure it would have gone well inviting the Sicherheitsdienst to Bletchley Park but only let them have access to the cleaning cupboard. 

Were it possible to do the whole thing on the UKs own I would agree, but in terms of money and time that's a rather big step. Limited involvement with another party is the next best option IMO.

 

Unless I'm wrong and the UK could afford to do it solo in which case I'd be happy to hear compelling arguments to prove that is the case. Or if it can be done in partnership with a party that wasn't so impelled by self interest (which rules out all the major major players right now).

Edited 28 January 2020 by leicsmac

[Guest MattP]

Big Nige bowing out (somewhat farcically towards the end ) from the European parliament. 

 

Probably a fitting finish.