BBC Funding

[CosbehFox]

Do find it bizarre that the argument against the BBC centres on its news output, the lack of value in its TV sports offering and comedy shows. 
 

Yet you very rarely hear arguments against its local radio output, 5Live’s sports coverage is superb, every year they will produce a drama which is critically a hit/gets a big audience (subsequently means it’s sold across the world). I can carry on going. 

[Manini]

The BBC make some good stuff in my opinion. Early Doors being the best of the lot. I was also a big fan of how not to live your life, I think that was BBC - some of the dramas have been good too - Bodyguard etc. 
 

I do see the other side of the coin though, people under a certain age won’t watch much live TV; Netflix and YouTube and other streaming services are massive now. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Can absolutely see both sides of this. Yeah they make some decent stuff but does it represent good value for my household personally? I'm not sure. I would probably do without if I had the option.

 

All the top BBC faces are very confident that it does, but will never be confident enough to go to a subscription model and stop threatening jail time to people who are reluctant to prop them up.

 

[Daggers]

9 hours ago, SexyGammonFox said:

Name me another broadcaster I need to pay even if I don't want to watch their programming?

No. But I’ll tell you what, I think I should have a refund for my contribution towards Tory MP salaries because they don’t represent me. Likewise, I want my NI subs back as I don’t use NHS maternity, paediatric, ENT or cardiac departments. In a large list of other stuff I don’t like/agree with/generally have the arse about, I also want to not have to pay for trident missiles, all the armed forces, fire services in other parts of the country, all the council tips I don’t use, any cash for Scotland and Wales, anything to do with N.Ireland, coastguards, trading standards, local smoking cessation services, in fact the entire CPS and court system…and anything else my petulant, selfish, childish attitude deems nothing to do with my imbecilic world view.

[davieG]

8 hours ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

All 4 has box sets of comedies etc spanning decades, all free to watch,

None of which have sub-titles for the hard of hearing which the BBC have to do for 90% of their programming.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

3 minutes ago, davieG said:

None of which have sub-titles for the hard of hearing which the BBC have to do for 90% of their programming.

 

Well that's an area where All 4 could improve (can't say I've tried it myself), but the fact that I could think of any episode of Father Ted or Peep Show and watch it as soon as I want without any additional fee, but if I go on iPlayer it won't have the Office, the Fast Show or pretty much anything that wasn't aired in the last 28 days. I'd like to know why that's the case

[Zear0]

11 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

Well that's an area where All 4 could improve (can't say I've tried it myself), but the fact that I could think of any episode of Father Ted or Peep Show and watch it as soon as I want without any additional fee, but if I go on iPlayer it won't have the Office, the Fast Show or pretty much anything that wasn't aired in the last 28 days. I'd like to know why that's the case

The Office, Series 1: 1. Downsize: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00748l1 via @bbciplayer

 

Problem is, due to previous funding cuts they've farmed a lot of the stuff to Britbox to maintain their core services. This is the final whack but they've been slowly killed off for a while now. 

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

Well that's an area where All 4 could improve (can't say I've tried it myself), but the fact that I could think of any episode of Father Ted or Peep Show and watch it as soon as I want without any additional fee, but if I go on iPlayer it won't have the Office, the Fast Show or pretty much anything that wasn't aired in the last 28 days. I'd like to know why that's the case

I believe the BBC are restricted to what and how long they can show stuff on iPlayer. Part of the problem is due to funding cuts they have to buy in lots of stuff which doesn't include the rights to have it on iPlayer. The owners know they can sell it on to other streaming companies for more £sss.

 

Not in reply to you but....

As for adverts on the BBC whenever this suggested the other terrestrial channels ITV etc complain they will lose revenues so I don't see that as a starter.

[Finnaldo]

I think the interesting thing about this topic is whilst there’s a loose left/right split on it, it’s much less defined and you see folk from otherwise similar political stances with opposing views or with different political stances agreeing. I’m of the opinion it could definitely do with an (impartial) reform of it’s services, make certain elements subscription services, and lower the license fee as a result, make enforcement much less confrontational. It’s essential it retains it’s status as an institution but the way the license fee is enforced will forever create opposition. 
 

One thing I will say however: the ‘BBC bias’ argument is the greatest litmus test to work out quite how extreme someone’s views are, you’re almost guaranteed to find a particularly zealous Momentum type or a frothing-at-the-mouth far-righter. BBC said they’d platform flat-Earthers for balance ffs, if anything they may be too impartial. I think people struggle to separate the individual views of BBC staff on social media and the actual programming, and unless you want to start making appointments and hirings based on political leanings then I don’t know what folk expect.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

The Office, Series 1: 1. Downsize: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00748l1 via @bbciplayer

 

Problem is, due to previous funding cuts they've farmed a lot of the stuff to Britbox to maintain their core services. This is the final whack but they've been slowly killed off for a while now. 

 

Wow, cheers - the last couple of times I've looked in the app, the show didn't come up at all

[Zear0]

Just now, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

Wow, cheers - the last couple of times I've looked in the app, the show didn't come up at all

They were literally only recently added for a few specials.  I get your point and felt a bit cheeky linking as I'd been after these for a while too since they left Netflix!

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I think the interesting thing about this topic is whilst there’s a loose left/right split on it, it’s much less defined and you see folk from otherwise similar political stances with opposing views or with different political stances agreeing. I’m of the opinion it could definitely do with an (impartial) reform of it’s services, make certain elements subscription services, and lower the license fee as a result, make enforcement much less confrontational. It’s essential it retains it’s status as an institution but the way the license fee is enforced will forever create opposition. 
 

One thing I will say however: the ‘BBC bias’ argument is the greatest litmus test to work out quite how extreme someone’s views are, you’re almost guaranteed to find a particularly zealous Momentum type or a frothing-at-the-mouth far-righter. BBC said they’d platform flat-Earthers for balance ffs, if anything they may be too impartial. I think people struggle to separate the individual views of BBC staff on social media and the actual programming, and unless you want to start making appointments and hirings based on political leanings then I don’t know what folk expect.

I still say 44p a day is good . Cheaper than a daily newspaper. If the Tories are so anti as they seem to be then ask why. 

[davieG]

22 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I think the interesting thing about this topic is whilst there’s a loose left/right split on it, it’s much less defined and you see folk from otherwise similar political stances with opposing views or with different political stances agreeing. I’m of the opinion it could definitely do with an (impartial) reform of it’s services, make certain elements subscription services, and lower the license fee as a result, make enforcement much less confrontational. It’s essential it retains it’s status as an institution but the way the license fee is enforced will forever create opposition. 
 

One thing I will say however: the ‘BBC bias’ argument is the greatest litmus test to work out quite how extreme someone’s views are, you’re almost guaranteed to find a particularly zealous Momentum type or a frothing-at-the-mouth far-righter. BBC said they’d platform flat-Earthers for balance ffs, if anything they may be too impartial. I think people struggle to separate the individual views of BBC staff on social media and the actual programming, and unless you want to start making appointments and hirings based on political leanings then I don’t know what folk expect.

Whichever party is in power they will feel it's biased against them because they're the ones that have the power o do and are doing things that will split opinions. I seem to recall Labour accusing it of bias when they were last in power, problem is it's been so long people forget.

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, davieG said:

Whichever party is in power they will feel it's biased against them because they're the ones that have the power o do and are doing things that will split opinions. I seem to recall Labour accusing it of bias when they were last in power, problem is it's been so long people forget.

This point was discussed this morning on LBC. The newsnight editor from the time said that Alastair Campbell complained about the programme on a regular basis.

 

I listened to the opening salvo from newsnight and it was just reflecting the clips from the media that are going round. The majority of it was quotes from Conservative MP's. 

 

I can't see that they can complain about it really.

 

Some of the non-politcal BBC presenters make no effort to disguise their dislike for Brexit or the Conservatives, but the political side is generally fair I think.

[foxes1988]

27 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I think the interesting thing about this topic is whilst there’s a loose left/right split on it, it’s much less defined and you see folk from otherwise similar political stances with opposing views or with different political stances agreeing. I’m of the opinion it could definitely do with an (impartial) reform of it’s services, make certain elements subscription services, and lower the license fee as a result, make enforcement much less confrontational. It’s essential it retains it’s status as an institution but the way the license fee is enforced will forever create opposition. 
 

One thing I will say however: the ‘BBC bias’ argument is the greatest litmus test to work out quite how extreme someone’s views are, you’re almost guaranteed to find a particularly zealous Momentum type or a frothing-at-the-mouth far-righter. BBC said they’d platform flat-Earthers for balance ffs, if anything they may be too impartial. I think people struggle to separate the individual views of BBC staff on social media and the actual programming, and unless you want to start making appointments and hirings based on political leanings then I don’t know what folk expect.

100% this.  The amount the far left and right complain about the BBC makes me think they do a good job on being impartial.  Although as you say thats not without its problems

 

20 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I still say 44p a day is good . Cheaper than a daily newspaper. If the Tories are so anti as they seem to be then ask why. 

The BBC needs to adapt and reform with the times but we need to be careful how we do it  as we have to remember its incredible value for money at the moment.  If it went subscription service or advertisement model it would be streamlined massively to make it commercially viable. Services would get dropped left right and centre.

[RoboFox]

Ed Davey nailed it: "Slashing the funding of a beloved national treasure just because you don’t like the headlines on the 6 o’clock news is no way for a responsible government in a democracy to behave"

 

[Fox1norfolk]

12 hours ago, SexyGammonFox said:

Name me some new *hilarious* non panel show comedy the BBC has put out in the last 5 years.

They are god at producing endless variations of cookery shows 

[Foxdiamond]

8 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

They are god at producing endless variations of cookery shows 

I have enjoyed 2 doors down. ITV also do lots of cookery programmes

[davieG]

12 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

They are god at producing endless variations of cookery shows 

BBC has definitely been dummed down due to pressures from outside for being too hoity toity and to get get bigger viewing figures. In many respects they're between a rock and a hard place and can't win, Get bigger viewing figures by producing more "popular" content, the likes of ITV complain of unfair completion. Consider adverting to reduce the licence fee again the likes of  ITV complain they'll lose a lot of their revenues. Tories in power accused of bias, Labour in power accused of bias. They really can't win.

[MustardTiger]

Agree with most in here. I like the BBC, I don't want to see it gutted or left to the wolves. BBC news is my news outlet of choice, I watch it and use the site every day. I don't think that the output is overall biased due to the points made by others here, I do not however think that its far fetched to believe that the majority of the people that work there are of similar mind, it's professional standards keeping them in line. Drama, comedy etc I don't watch as much nowadays, maybe the odd headline new drama, gone fishing or a good comedy show (not panel) and usually via Iplayer. 

 

On the other hand it is bloated, some of the presenters are paid far too much and they should focus on giving a chance to up and comers. The license fee I don't mind paying but the threatening letters and the pseudo-bailiffs knocking on people's doors needs to stop. Saying that, if there were no teeth, how much do I really trust the public not to just take it for free? I suppose you have the BBC account now so access would be granted or not via that? 

 

I think a lot of people agree that something needs to give, but not sure where the line sits and they don't want to make the wrong choice and let the whole thing decay to nothing?

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, MustardTiger said:

Agree with most in here. I like the BBC, I don't want to see it gutted or left to the wolves. BBC news is my news outlet of choice, I watch it and use the site every day. I don't think that the output is overall biased due to the points made by others here, I do not however think that its far fetched to believe that the majority of the people that work there are of similar mind, it's professional standards keeping them in line. Drama, comedy etc I don't watch as much nowadays, maybe the odd headline new drama, gone fishing or a good comedy show (not panel) and usually via Iplayer. 

 

On the other hand it is bloated, some of the presenters are paid far too much and they should focus on giving a chance to up and comers. The license fee I don't mind paying but the threatening letters and the pseudo-bailiffs knocking on people's doors needs to stop. Saying that, if there were no teeth, how much do I really trust the public not to just take it for free? I suppose you have the BBC account now so access would be granted or not via that? 

 

I think a lot of people agree that something needs to give, but not sure where the line sits and they don't want to make the wrong choice and let the whole thing decay to nothing?

Didn't this knocking on doors and threatening pensioners, if it did actually happen start because the Government stopped funding the fee for those over 75. So it's a bit rich them using this as a reason for this change.

[enmac]

3 hours ago, Manini said:

The BBC make some good stuff in my opinion. Early Doors being the best of the lot. I was also a big fan of how not to live your life, I think that was BBC - some of the dramas have been good too - Bodyguard etc. 
 

I do see the other side of the coin though, people under a certain age won’t watch much live TV; Netflix and YouTube and other streaming services are massive now. 

There's a fair bit of BBC drama on Netflix. e. g. Peaky Blinders. 

[enmac]

On 06/02/2020 at 10:57, Guest MattP said:

So torn on this. I watch more of the Beeb than any other channel but it's becoming harder and harder to defend it.

 

The news coverage is fantastic and shows like Panorama, Marr, Neil, QT are needed for the public discourse. Some of the documentary series are absolutely incredible. 

 

The bias in politics is a problem, it has a liberal bias it is almost impossible to avoid given its employees will be overwhelmingly city based and younger than the whole. Its certainly been to anti-Brexit since the referendum and arguments can also be made for it being anti-Corbyn. Sorting that out is imperative or we just end up with another C4. They've got to so careful to politically balance comedy as well - something it's completely failed on.

 

Costs need to be scaled back - I don't seriously believe people wouldn't watch MOTD if Jason Muhammed did it rather than Lineker, they also don't need 1000 people to cover events like Glastonbury. 

 

Moving to a subscription service is inevitable though - it's absurd to have an effective tax on a TV channel to fund and the biggest problem that comes from that is if income is guaranteed they'll never be a desire to sort problems out.

 

I'd certainly still pay it, but change is long overdue. 

You say it's got a Liberal bias and yet has anyone been on QT more than Farage? 

[enmac]

On 06/02/2020 at 15:15, Jon the Hat said:

Don't forget the £211m over three years the BBC paid for the highlights package.  Honeslty in this day and age, taxing people to pay the EPL for TV rights?  That is criminal.

 

They are many amazing things the BBC does - and must continue to do, but these should be funded by central Government spenidn not the TV license.  Take for example the education content - move that budget into the Dept of Education.

 

The BBC is however now trying to be all things to all people.  Online footprint is massive, half the TV channels show utter crap to low audiences.  Needs a serious budget cut to force the tough decisions.  I am thinking like 50%.

 

If it was government funded it would become state tv, like Pravda. I can't think of anything worse especially with this current bunch of spivs. 

[davieG]

I'm not convince Lineker defending it will hell.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/gary-lineker-defends-bbc-news-6503494