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1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Must have kicked off in the politics thread again but finally the PM has spoken on the worrying situation in Northern Ireland. Not awful lot of reporting by the media on this and it’s been escalating for a week 

If it was going on anywhere else in the world it'd have been headline news for days. Sadly the British media and public just seem to shrug their shoulders and go "they're at it again" without knowing or caring why.

 

Yet another 'Project Fear' prediction comes to pass...

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16 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

First I've seen of this, what the hell? :blink:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cancelling-passports-non-payment-of-child-maintenance

 

'Cancelling passports: non-payment of child maintenance'

'This guidance tells Her Majesty’s Passport Office staff how to process notifications and cancel passports held by persons who have not paid child maintenance.'

Am I missing something? Why is this shocking? Perhaps I am just a natural totalitarian :dunno:

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42 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

If it was going on anywhere else in the world it'd have been headline news for days. Sadly the British media and public just seem to shrug their shoulders and go "they're at it again" without knowing or caring why.

 

Yet another 'Project Fear' prediction comes to pass...

I seen Patrick Kielty of all people wrote a Twitter thread back in 2018 which has proved rather accurate to what’s occurring 

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6 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

When is outside dining not outside dining? When its inside...

 

Not really sure how this bloke thought this would be ok:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-56666447

Well if he followed the spec set out to him by the council I'd imagine that's why.

 

But it's a bit stupid isn't it, it like thinking opening a window now makes the pub outside. 

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2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Am I missing something? Why is this shocking? Perhaps I am just a natural totalitarian :dunno:

Because the two are totally seperate issues and where the hell is it leading next?

 

Forget to tax your car? Passport cancelled at the airport.

Don't wanna pay for your tv license? Passport cancelled.

 

If it's that easy to do for CSA, what stops them doing it for everything else?

 

Not that I agree obviously with anyone that paying for their kids, proper scumbag behaviour.

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4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Must have kicked off in the politics thread again but finally the PM has spoken on the worrying situation in Northern Ireland. Not awful lot of reporting by the media on this and it’s been escalating for a week 

Did you see the lads petrol bomb the bus? Proper mental!

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Because the two are totally seperate issues and where the hell is it leading next?

 

Forget to tax your car? Passport cancelled at the airport.

Don't wanna pay for your tv license? Passport cancelled.

 

If it's that easy to do for CSA, what stops them doing it for everything else?

 

Not that I agree obviously with anyone that paying for their kids, proper scumbag behaviour.

The fact you put those two in the same bracket as not paying what you owe in childcare is a bit weird. 
 

Personal responsibility, or lack there of, is fair game in my mind.

 

What are they supposed to do? Fine them?  lol

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1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

The fact you put those two in the same bracket as not paying what you owe in childcare is a bit weird. 
 

Personal responsibility, or lack there of, is fair game in my mind.

 

What are they supposed to do? Fine them?  lol

As Panini said in another thread, it's got the whole 'and then they came for me' vibe about it IMO.

 

Don't they usually take the money straight from earnings?

 

Isn't car tax personal responsibility? Almost everything we get taxed or pay for is personal responsibility.

 

Wow, I'm turning liberal :blink::D

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1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

As Panini said in another thread, it's got the whole 'and then they came for me' vibe about it IMO.

 

Don't they usually take the money straight from earnings?

 

Isn't car tax personal responsibility? Almost everything we get taxed or pay for is personal responsibility.

 

Wow, I'm turning liberal :blink::D

With you mentioning personal liberty twice in the same post, we will soon bring back home  lol

 

Seriously, not contributing to a child’s well-being you were quite happy to help make is pretty unforgivable in my eyes, bit more than not paying for your TV licence.

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Just now, Dahnsouff said:

With you mentioning personal liberty twice in the same post, we will soon bring back home  lol

 

Seriously, not contributing to a child’s well-being you were quite happy to help make is pretty unforgivable in my eyes, bit more than not paying for your TV licence.

People not paying for their kids is disgusting, just worries me where it will end up, especially with all this bollocks about vaccine passports at the minute, I don't like where we are heading!

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Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

People not paying for their kids is disgusting, just worries me where it will end up, especially with all this bollocks about vaccine passports at the minute, I don't like where we are heading!

Get that, it’s a very fine line between social justice and impinging on social liberty by being overly totalitarian, even with good intentions (other types of intentions are available)

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Not sure where to put this, and if it’s already a discussion somewhere else, but, just reading Swansea have decided the club and all staff including players will boycott social media due to the increasing racial abuse of players.

Well played Swansea, really need some big clubs to follow to make a difference.

I for one would love Leicester to come out today and do the same. To stop this problem it’s going to take everyone to come off and a drop in traffic and revenue for social media companies before they change anything!

Well played Swansea City

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5 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

If it was going on anywhere else in the world it'd have been headline news for days. Sadly the British media and public just seem to shrug their shoulders and go "they're at it again" without knowing or caring why.

 

There is limited understanding of simple cause and effect in this country and a weird wilful ignorance to anything outside your region. People voted for a sea border, they have no interest in the consequences other than being able to stick two fingers up at the opposition, and then they convince themselves that it's the EU that is falling apart. We have become quite a pathetic nation. 

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1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Let them get on with it, they obviously don't like each other.

 

Out of curiosity, would you say the same if the bus hijacking, petrol bombing and attacks on police were happening in Hinckley, Leicester, London, Cardiff or Glasgow?

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2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Out of curiosity, would you say the same if the bus hijacking, petrol bombing and attacks on police were happening in Hinckley, Leicester, London, Cardiff or Glasgow?

I can't answer that because it's not happening in those places and i very much doubt it would. The Irish problem is never going to end until they sort it out themselves, surely history has shown that.

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37 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I can't answer that because it's not happening in those places and i very much doubt it would. The Irish problem is never going to end until they sort it out themselves, surely history has shown that.

It's hardly an 'Irish' problem, given that it's happening in the UK lol

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11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I can't answer that because it's not happening in those places and i very much doubt it would.

 

Maybe not with the same sectarian undertones (though there were racial aspects to past riots in England).

 

But there were much worse riots in London in 2011 and in various English cities in the 1980s. As with these riots, a lot of the violence was directed at the police - and it would have been wrong to just "let them get on with it".

 

 

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The Irish problem is never going to end until they sort it out themselves, surely history has shown that.

 

Who are "they"? If you mean the people of N. Ireland or of the island of Ireland, many are more passionate about being British than most in GB, many others do not consider themselves to be British at all and many more just want to get on with their lives in peace. There's then the small matter of N. Ireland being a part of the UK so a breakdown of law and order there is largely a British responsibility.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt your attitude to the 2011 London riots was "let them get on with it, they obviously don't like each other".

 

The history is long and complex, but one thing is crystal clear: the intertwined histories of Great Britain and Ireland are a fundamental part of "the Irish problem". It's really "the Irish and British problem" (I'm not apportioning blame there).

From about 400 years ago, as a matter of British policy the north of Ireland was settled by English and Scottish protestants. Ireland as a whole was part of the UK until 1922 until partition was agreed by the UK in a Treaty.

The UK cannot just wash its hands of sectarian violence in a part of its own country, violence resulting substantially from its own historic (and current) decisions.

 

There's plenty of responsibility or blame to be assigned to all players in N. Ireland as well as GB, though, I agree. Serious analysts highlight 3 causes of these latest riots:

- The Brexit "border in the Irish Sea" that Johnson agreed with the EU (unlike May), shafting his Ulster Unionist allies so as to get Brexit done and to gain power with scant regard for the Loyalist anger triggered

- The N. Ireland police crackdown on Loyalist groups engaged in organised crime (as Republican groups have been, too, historically)

- Unionist anger at the N.I Public Prosecution Service not prosecuting Sinn Fein leaders who attended the funeral of a former IRA man last year, in breach of Covid regulations

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1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

We really don't learn anywhere near enough at school in England about the history of Ireland.

The role of the UK in the Irish Famine of the late 1840's would be a good place to start.

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15 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Maybe not with the same sectarian undertones (though there were racial aspects to past riots in England).

 

But there were much worse riots in London in 2011 and in various English cities in the 1980s. As with these riots, a lot of the violence was directed at the police - and it would have been wrong to just "let them get on with it".

 

 

 

Who are "they"? If you mean the people of N. Ireland or of the island of Ireland, many are more passionate about being British than most in GB, many others do not consider themselves to be British at all and many more just want to get on with their lives in peace. There's then the small matter of N. Ireland being a part of the UK so a breakdown of law and order there is largely a British responsibility.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt your attitude to the 2011 London riots was "let them get on with it, they obviously don't like each other".

 

The history is long and complex, but one thing is crystal clear: the intertwined histories of Great Britain and Ireland are a fundamental part of "the Irish problem". It's really "the Irish and British problem" (I'm not apportioning blame there).

From about 400 years ago, as a matter of British policy the north of Ireland was settled by English and Scottish protestants. Ireland as a whole was part of the UK until 1922 until partition was agreed by the UK in a Treaty.

The UK cannot just wash its hands of sectarian violence in a part of its own country, violence resulting substantially from its own historic (and current) decisions.

 

There's plenty of responsibility or blame to be assigned to all players in N. Ireland as well as GB, though, I agree. Serious analysts highlight 3 causes of these latest riots:

- The Brexit "border in the Irish Sea" that Johnson agreed with the EU (unlike May), shafting his Ulster Unionist allies so as to get Brexit done and to gain power with scant regard for the Loyalist anger triggered

- The N. Ireland police crackdown on Loyalist groups engaged in organised crime (as Republican groups have been, too, historically)

- Unionist anger at the N.I Public Prosecution Service not prosecuting Sinn Fein leaders who attended the funeral of a former IRA man last year, in breach of Covid regulations

You can give all the reasons in the world for the current violence but what is petrol bombing a bus going to solve.

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12 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

We really don't learn anywhere near enough at school in England about the history of Ireland.

It's not just learning the history of Ireland. It is as simple as understanding that if you want to leave the EU to take back control of our border, that border needs to go... somewhere. Are we really that thick a nation that we need special history lessons to help us understand what a border is and why the subject is controversial in Ireland? 

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10 minutes ago, bovril said:

It's not just learning the history of Ireland. It is as simple as understanding that if you want to leave the EU to take back control of our border, that border needs to go... somewhere. Are we really that thick a nation that we need special history lessons to help us understand what a border is and why the subject is controversial in Ireland? 

There are definitely plenty in Westminster who could have benefitted from such lessons for starters. For me, the Northern Ireland issue was probably the most logic-defying aspect of Brexit. The problem is enough people in Great Britain just don't really care what happens there or know why it happens. I don't mean to be flippant about it but it's just an extension of the Old Firm derby in many people's minds.

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7 minutes ago, bovril said:

It's not just learning the history of Ireland. It is as simple as understanding that if you want to leave the EU to take back control of our border, that border needs to go... somewhere. Are we really that thick a nation that we need special history lessons to help us understand what a border is and why the subject is controversial in Ireland

But, once Brexit was voted for, whether or not it's a bad thing, there were 2 choices, a land border, which basically breaks the gf agreement and would see a return to the troubles, or a sea border which is workable, but still ends up with riots. No-one can ever win.

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