Carl the Llama Posted 17 August 2021 Posted 17 August 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: Not to be controversial, the Taliban have said women's right according to Islam will be met and no nation will be allowed to use it as it base. Considering Islam is from 800 AD, those conditions that were applied to women will be adopted. This is the will of the land, what right do we have to say Islamic rule is wrong. I'm not certain it's the will of the women... If it's oppression of 50% of the population, of course it's wrong. Edited 17 August 2021 by Carl the Llama 1
Innovindil Posted 17 August 2021 Posted 17 August 2021 50 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I'm not certain it's the will of the women... If it's oppression of 50% of the population, of course it's wrong. Not just wrong imo, it's sodding stupid. Why would anyone want uneducated women? I'd imagine it would be like the cast of love island, and then you slap them in burkas so you don't even have the skin entertainment. Quite literally the polar opposite of what men should want.
Dr The Singh Posted 17 August 2021 Posted 17 August 2021 1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said: I'm not certain it's the will of the women... If it's oppression of 50% of the population, of course it's wrong. Not for me to debate, it's the will of the prophet I assume.
Wymsey Posted 17 August 2021 Posted 17 August 2021 As bad as it is there, do hope the country doesn't become a feeding ground for IS.
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 August 2021 Posted 17 August 2021 Was talking to a Turkish and Arab Muslim about this taliban rule which ideology is equally found in Saudi Arabia and other arab nations is probably vastly rejected by ordinary Muslims. It’s crazy how an ideology which rules by fear and is not supported by the masses rules so much of the part of the world which fell into conflict and insecurities falling the fall of the ottomans (which like any empire were no angels). The Taliban should never be in power. They come from a part of the world where education and general common sense fails people. Baluchistan, Punjab, Kashmir, Afghanistan and parts of Turkmenistan have this tendency to come up with extreme and crazy interpretations of the religions of that area. Love swords and walking around with a chip on their shoulders. Sometimes differs significantly for others around the world.
Dr The Singh Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 11 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said: Was talking to a Turkish and Arab Muslim about this taliban rule which ideology is equally found in Saudi Arabia and other arab nations is probably vastly rejected by ordinary Muslims. It’s crazy how an ideology which rules by fear and is not supported by the masses rules so much of the part of the world which fell into conflict and insecurities falling the fall of the ottomans (which like any empire were no angels). The Taliban should never be in power. They come from a part of the world where education and general common sense fails people. Baluchistan, Punjab, Kashmir, Afghanistan and parts of Turkmenistan have this tendency to come up with extreme and crazy interpretations of the religions of that area. Love swords and walking around with a chip on their shoulders. Sometimes differs significantly for others around the world. Interested in your take of Punjab, Punjabi Muslims tend to be very relaxed about there religion. The Hindu elements are very radical but not with the sword. Sikh elements have been proven to show very very minor compared to the extremist government agenda. 1
foxfanazer Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 Never thought I'd hear about the Taliban reforming. This reminds me of when all the 90's pop bands like Steps and S Club 7 did comeback tours
foxile5 Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 3 minutes ago, foxfanazer said: Never thought I'd hear about the Taliban reforming. This reminds me of when all the 90's pop bands like Steps and S Club 7 did comeback tours The flow and ebb of time and culture. The only constant in this world are the Fast and Furious films.
bovril Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 It is quite a nostalgia trip. I was very anti-war and anti-America in 2001 but mostly because I wanted to cultivate the image of a charismatic left-wing intellectual. So I've had chance to reflect on how that was as unsuccessful as the NATO intervention in Afghanistan.
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 1 hour ago, Dr The Singh said: Interested in your take of Punjab, Punjabi Muslims tend to be very relaxed about there religion. The Hindu elements are very radical but not with the sword. Sikh elements have been proven to show very very minor compared to the extremist government agenda. I think there is enough out there to suggest otherwise. Of course, it’s wrong to group entire groups of people together as falling within the “extremist” and/or “freedom fighter” banner but it’s very much an us vs them mentality (applicable within the extremist elements within those regions) that causes issue. Of course, it’s usually a minority which gets the headlines. I also find it quite interesting (very much related to the mentality) that people within those regions/religions admire the battles and “warriors” from their religious beliefs which, from my experience, differs from other parts of the world. Rather then the actual peaceful missions, which is more prominent. This is of course not a suggestion that whole (vast) area of Punjab is an area of concern. That would be stupid. There are elements. Just like in the other areas I’ve listed. Nonetheless, I’m sure there is arguments on both sides. From my own experience, I think there is enough there to fall within the “problem” reference.
Dr The Singh Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said: I think there is enough out there to suggest otherwise. Of course, it’s wrong to group entire groups of people together as falling within the “extremist” and/or “freedom fighter” banner but it’s very much an us vs them mentality (applicable within the extremist elements within those regions) that causes issue. Of course, it’s usually a minority which gets the headlines. I also find it quite interesting (very much related to the mentality) that people within those regions/religions admire the battles and “warriors” from their religious beliefs which, from my experience, differs from other parts of the world. Rather then the actual peaceful missions, which is more prominent. This is of course not a suggestion that whole (vast) area of Punjab is an area of concern. That would be stupid. There are elements. Just like in the other areas I’ve listed. Nonetheless, I’m sure there is arguments on both sides. From my own experience, I think there is enough there to fall within the “problem” reference. Strange, majority of the freedon fighters for Khalistan are guys like me, not very religious, drink alcohol have uncut hair, it's hope and wish the Religious elements and those religious orders join hands and make Punjab a indistrictuble force. Your kind of thinking is very dangerous, the farmers protest in India proves that. It was Sikhs in its 10,000s went to protest in Delhi, the Indian government and niave thoughts if the Indian majority tried to turn it into a Sikh Vs India event, calling them traitors and Khalistanis, luckily it backfired, otherwise it would have been a massacre, the police and army would have full chit on killing and raping who they like. Sikhs brandish swords everyday, I think people need to understand the meaning of such things. In punjab we know who the true extremist are. 1
urban.spaceman Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 19 hours ago, Dr The Singh said: Not to be controversial, the Taliban have said women's right according to Islam will be met and no nation will be allowed to use it as it base. Considering Islam is from 800 AD, those conditions that were applied to women will be adopted. This is the will of the land, what right do we have to say Islamic rule is wrong. Every right, Some would say it's a moral duty. 1 1
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 14 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: Strange, majority of the freedon fighters for Khalistan are guys like me, not very religious, drink alcohol have uncut hair, it's hope and wish the Religious elements and those religious orders join hands and make Punjab a indistrictuble force. Your kind of thinking is very dangerous, the farmers protest in India proves that. It was Sikhs in its 10,000s went to protest in Delhi, the Indian government and niave thoughts if the Indian majority tried to turn it into a Sikh Vs India event, calling them traitors and Khalistanis, luckily it backfired, otherwise it would have been a massacre, the police and army would have full chit on killing and raping who they like. Sikhs brandish swords everyday, I think people need to understand the meaning of such things. In punjab we know who the true extremist are. Ok so you've accepted that there are those within the state which class themselves as freedom fighters. No where did I link the thinking or the criticism to the Sikh religion - its a vast area of land with people of many religions and demographics. Punjab is one of many places I listed as worth watching for obvious reasons. I cant understand why you've taken it as a defensive. Those areas that I listed are tribal. They tend to have an us v them mentality and a "poor me" sense of thought. Of course, the minority. Where you have a "poor me" and victim mentality with limited education and influential leaders who essentially teach the wrong things, you are going to get an extremist mind frame. The point I was making is that it seems in those areas that I listed, that thought process is very easy to manipulate. So if my thinking is dangerous, so be it. The reality is, there is enough there to suggest it can be (not that it is) a hot spot for danger. I dont know why that is such a wrong belief given people within the state feel they've been wronged.
foxile5 Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 Sean Lock has passed away and I'm not normally one for feeling sentiment at the passing of celebrities but this one has saddened me greatly. I absolutely loved him on the panel shows and had the chance to see him live once; it was fantastic. 1
Jon the Hat Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 7 minutes ago, foxile5 said: Sean Lock has passed away and I'm not normally one for feeling sentiment at the passing of celebrities but this one has saddened me greatly. I absolutely loved him on the panel shows and had the chance to see him live once; it was fantastic. Very sad. Hugely talented, but also seemed a really nice guy and a family man. 1
foxile5 Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Very sad. Hugely talented, but also seemed a really nice guy and a family man. I'm sure that behind the curtains all celebrities are fairly 'normal' but he seemed 'normal' in front of it. I'm really sad about it.
Dr The Singh Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 2 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said: Ok so you've accepted that there are those within the state which class themselves as freedom fighters. No where did I link the thinking or the criticism to the Sikh religion - its a vast area of land with people of many religions and demographics. Punjab is one of many places I listed as worth watching for obvious reasons. I cant understand why you've taken it as a defensive. Those areas that I listed are tribal. They tend to have an us v them mentality and a "poor me" sense of thought. Of course, the minority. Where you have a "poor me" and victim mentality with limited education and influential leaders who essentially teach the wrong things, you are going to get an extremist mind frame. The point I was making is that it seems in those areas that I listed, that thought process is very easy to manipulate. So if my thinking is dangerous, so be it. The reality is, there is enough there to suggest it can be (not that it is) a hot spot for danger. I dont know why that is such a wrong belief given people within the state feel they've been wronged. I didnt take offence, but I was massively confused why Punjab whether it be East or West be off concern. Now you mention tribal areas especially paktuns/pashtuns it makes more sense. My reference to Sikhism, relates obviously to me and obviously they are major players and it's there homeland, no grudges no offence given or taken.
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 18 August 2021 Posted 18 August 2021 3 hours ago, Dr The Singh said: I didnt take offence, but I was massively confused why Punjab whether it be East or West be off concern. Now you mention tribal areas especially paktuns/pashtuns it makes more sense. My reference to Sikhism, relates obviously to me and obviously they are major players and it's there homeland, no grudges no offence given or taken. Good and I hope there wouldn’t be. It’s an observation of the region. By no names suggesting it relates to one group but more so all groups. There are elements of concern that’s all I was highlighting.
Collymore Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 "That happened 4 to 5 days a go" Putting the heartless nature of the comment aside, this was recorded Wednesday I believe and the people falling off planes was the Monday!
SpacedX Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 (edited) On 18/08/2021 at 10:50, bovril said: I want to cultivate the image of a charismatic left-wing intellectual. Edited 19 August 2021 by Line-X
fuchsntf Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 (edited) On 18/08/2021 at 14:27, Dr The Singh said: Strange, majority of the freedon fighters for Khalistan are guys like me, not very religious, drink alcohol have uncut hair, it's hope and wish the Religious elements and those religious orders join hands and make Punjab a indistrictuble force. Your kind of thinking is very dangerous, the farmers protest in India proves that. It was Sikhs in its 10,000s went to protest in Delhi, the Indian government and niave thoughts if the Indian majority tried to turn it into a Sikh Vs India event, calling them traitors and Khalistanis, luckily it backfired, otherwise it would have been a massacre, the police and army would have full chit on killing and raping who they like. Sikhs brandish swords everyday, I think people need to understand the meaning of such things. In punjab we know who the true extremist are. I wish at least the Western European countries could bring more Social-History Education of other lands into their schools. Including their strifes,and differences...There are so many Fazit in possible approaches...I admit I dont know the how... Firstly having Pakistani,Indian,Persian,West-Indian friends ( some who came into our family), 1960s-70s has a older child. One learnt a lot when One was Part of Open discussion. Then in an hard proffesion, both travelling through work, then travelling to discover,to understand..I .I already had learnt,studied about peoples of those far Off shores.I Then I was Fortunate to travel/Work through the Off beat tourist paths Persian,Arab,Afghanistan,pakistan,Indian frontiers. Here I Met a Great spread of " Peoples" ready & willing to discuss Cross-exchange experiences in life, themselves, and beliefs.... First Where suprisingly in rough mountain Remote areas, where Religion, Islam were Not the First Port of Call in their beliefs. Then the various religious- groups Living cheek to jaw & friendly supportive of each other in everyday life, then fragil any faction riot bursts out.. Often on 1000 yrs Shared historical-religious Geographical Location on a wrong day,or breaking with agreed etiquette or a politicians trying to win points. People die...,then a few Days later, the same people are Good neighbours once again... A Western Riot just doesn't compare with any riot Kicking Off in any Asian country. The Hindu Internal differences, compounded then their differences agreviances with the Sikhs & visa-versa. Seeing how the Taliban-Pashtan-tribes, other Pashtans and other tribes or peoples, seesawed between opinions, agreements arguments, including the mountain-villages or peoples who had no religious alliance. I suppose a Good start would to wade through the same & various lands Way of lives without religion,then slowly filter it in, because Religion pops up often ( Not for all )to be a Major Part of their Family & Family routine and welcoming others.. Then in other geographical locations, the differences & comparison between Mujahhideen,Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and other Local players... The history / Story of the Punjab & rifts is much a Story has the Mountain-regions across the North Indian-continent.. Away from the above thoughts.. Because of the of Russians, then afterward Bush's USA/UK/Nato Military intervention The alliances, beliefs changed drastically and dramatic mostly off the back of Lack of Reverence or help to generations of the young-male refugees,who After Not months but years, had their potential Futures alone,with or without families broken... And their lives wishes & ambitions, were less comparable then any European-Chav..!! Taliban became a lot of conscripts ,who had or lost respect to anything either their own Host Land or West could solve or offer. As I was in the mountain-regions, this was just After the Russian s had departed ( they did agree leave support & Medical staff behind)l In some regions, Afghanistan/ Pakistani girls went to school, ....some Now note this..!! A couple villages had women mayors, leading village spokesperson, when I Drove my Expedition Truck through a couple of villages, we met a couple of women-mayors,shook my hand & hugged me and in a field,we sat down & spoke about the region,village, Life. One when we Met had a Rifle slung over her shoulder, both had Deep blue eyes. If they had any Muslim/Islamisten thoughts, this just wouldnt of happened. I also Met a couple of Sikh- groups,some in voluntary agricultral,support some were from the Indian punjab others were from Middle-towns in Pakistan The others were doing what I basically did, they were travelling & trekking, ( at the Time 6 men & 2 women) for 6 months. Sometimes leaving Wife & kids at a base,then even on long slogs, took them along... the women in the group were nurses, and when asked offered their skills in Remote villages. We coincidently Met them 2 months later in the Skardu-area.. Amusingly the families had taken a 4 day time-out in a "Dakota-plane". come Hotel reserve/parc... They with whole Family had just come Off the Concordia-glacier-trek,where we were heading. They put us onto a Swiss looking-alm house, to eat,drink und sleep,where the old Kick off point to various treks started. we didnt Sleep there, but we could leave our truck with them. With our Sikh, travelling Shadows we could exchange some Good North-pakistan info with the families and experience also enjoying a couple of comfy nights, exchanging but more Learning / listening of their Sikh lives, beliefs, thoughts......Loved it..!! That World 30-35 years ago was in these areas totally different...and Nature Infrastructure & human Intervention has also massively changed. Sorry for für long post, But I started rather controversially, I just Wanted to bring it down to more mellow-experiences Edited 19 August 2021 by fuchsntf 2 1
SpacedX Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 3 minutes ago, bovril said: I'm still trying... Actually, in all seriousness, I really enjoy your contributions to this forum and don't find them contrived or pretentious in the slightest. I often learn something new when you post.
bovril Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 5 minutes ago, Line-X said: I often learn something new when you post. How to check posts for typos.
SpacedX Posted 19 August 2021 Posted 19 August 2021 3 minutes ago, bovril said: How to check posts for typos. I could do with all the assistance I can get on that front - hence the constant use of the edit function.
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