Coronavirus Thread

[RowlattsFox]

Is there any evidence that 14 days is still required? Rather than 7, particularly if no symptoms develop in that time. Just a couple of days into my 3 year olds 14 day isolation, and I'm kind isolating by association as I can't go anywhere during the day. 14 days of staying at home with a 3 year round is a long time, I've considered doing this week and then potentially takin him on short walks next week, and ensuring I avoid any contact with anyone, only if he or we don't develop symptoms of course. Against the rules but I think its possible using a bit of common sense. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Boris has tested negative but is still going to self isolate for the full 14 days. Am I missing something, what's the point?

 

Edit: Is it to do with people he may have been in contact with and whether they need a test?

Edited 17 November 2020 by Leicester_Loyal

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13221677/police-suspend-10000-covid-fines/

 

'POLICE chiefs have suspended the £10,000 on-the-spot fines with lockdown flouters to be hauled before courts instead.'

[Dahnsouff]

7 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Boris has tested negative but is still going to self isolate for the full 14 days. Am I missing something, what's the point?

Because he would be lambasted if he did not? Or maybe the tests are still not 100% ?

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Because he would be lambasted if he did not? Or maybe the tests are still not 100% ?

Why bother taking a test then was my original point, if he’s isolating anyway. Only reason I can think of is for people he’s been in contact with and if they needed testing. 

[MonmoreStef]

11 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Boris has tested negative but is still going to self isolate for the full 14 days. Am I missing something, what's the point?

I’ve given up trying to make sense of any of it now. I’m more concerned with how we pay the bill for all of this. The tax the motorist story I was reading yesterday suggesting motorists will have to pay per mile they drive got me concerned. 

[Finnaldo]

52 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

300,000 kids on average at home in any given week. 

 

My brother got sent home today, sat facing directly opposite a positive case. 
 

My mum is on a shielding list due to treatment she’s had this year and is due surgery soon, she rang up to ask if he can be tested and was told it’s not possible as he’s not showing any symptoms, regardless of the circumstance. 
 

It’s been long enough that she should be okay if he was to have it and pass it on to her, but it poses issues to her surgery if she gets it, or any other particularly vulnerable person in a similar position...

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Why bother taking a test then was my original point, if he’s isolating anyway. Only reason I can think of is for people he’s been in contact with and if they needed testing. 

Publicity I imagine, if had done this after the Cummings thing whilst manfully dispatching him from Downing Street, sure it would have been effective mind  

[yorkie1999]

22 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13221677/police-suspend-10000-covid-fines/

 

'POLICE chiefs have suspended the £10,000 on-the-spot fines with lockdown flouters to be hauled before courts instead.'

It's all wrong. How can you break a law that is so serious it warrants a £10000 fine, yet if you pay it on the spot, it's a reduced amount. How does paying less make it less of an offence.

[Buce]

Call to protect UK doctors from prosecution over life-or-death Covid rationing

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/17/call-to-protect-uk-doctors-from-prosecution-over-life-or-death-covid-rationing

 

If anyone should face prosecution over this, it should be the politicians who have consistently underfunded the NHS for years.

[StanSP]

25 minutes ago, Buce said:

Call to protect UK doctors from prosecution over life-or-death Covid rationing

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/17/call-to-protect-uk-doctors-from-prosecution-over-life-or-death-covid-rationing

 

If anyone should face prosecution over this, it should be the politicians who have consistently underfunded the NHS for years.

Like Grenfell - authorities don't seem to be have been looked in to as much as the rescue services who tried to help as much as possible. Have the Council been punished for ignoring the warnings of such cladding being put on the buildings?

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, MonmoreStef said:

I’ve given up trying to make sense of any of it now. I’m more concerned with how we pay the bill for all of this. The tax the motorist story I was reading yesterday suggesting motorists will have to pay per mile they drive got me concerned. 

That's to pay for the loss of the £40 billion fuel revenue the government currently collects due to electric vehicles though, which was always going to be the case. That's another fvck up waithing to happen considering there's no infrastructure being put in place to cater for mass usage of electric vehicles, and it's supposed to happen in 9 years time.

[StriderHiryu]

Quite telling to see some of the articles posted by the British Medical Journal, the leading site for all health matters in the UK:

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

 

"Politicisation of science was enthusiastically deployed by some of history’s worst autocrats and dictators, and it is now regrettably commonplace in democracies.20 The medical-political complex tends towards suppression of science to aggrandise and enrich those in power. And, as the powerful become more successful, richer, and further intoxicated with power, the inconvenient truths of science are suppressed. When good science is suppressed, people die."

 

And another from yesterday:

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436

 

"Spending the equivalent of 77% of the NHS annual revenue budget on an unevaluated underdesigned national programme leading to a regressive, insufficiently supported intervention—in many cases for the wrong people—cannot be defended. The experience of the National Screening Committee and National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) tells us that allowing testing programmes to drift into use without the right system in place leads to a mess, and the more resources invested the bigger the mess. "

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Why bother taking a test then was my original point, if he’s isolating anyway. Only reason I can think of is for people he’s been in contact with and if they needed testing. 

Because if he tests positive then everyone who has come into contact with him has to isolate too. If he doesn't then they don't.

 

You can't just create a chain of people who've come into contact with people who've come into contact with someone who tested positive else to goes and infinitum and everyone has to self-isolate.

 

So you only self-isolate if you've come in direct contact with someone who tested positive.

[Chrysalis]

Checked the numbers for first time in a while and wow, the city really doesnt respond well to national restrictions.

 

Are the students for both uni's coming back after christmas? Leicester more than anywhere else in England I feel needs the vaccine to work, else I can see it been in lockdown for all of 2022.

[Legend_in_blue]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Checked the numbers for first time in a while and wow, the city really doesnt respond well to national restrictions.

 

Are the students for both uni's coming back after christmas? Leicester more than anywhere else in England I feel needs the vaccine to work, else I can see it been in lockdown for all of 2022.

 

All that is needed here is a graph to show hospitalisations over time in Leicester to see if there is a correlation between the two.  This, and seasonal trends are indicating that this is the main driving force and not lockdown, unless you attribute people not following the rules as a reason for the increase in ignoring the lockdown.  Whatever, it is destroying businesses.

[Chrysalis]

Looking into it a bit more it seems this time blaby, and other county areas have the same issue as well, rapidly rising greater than national average, at least the city isnt alone this time.

 

Legend_in_blue

 

I just read that the professor in Leicester thinks household mixing is the prime driver, I would love for him to explain that, think about it, if friends are mixing, you can pass it on once, but then thats it, plus household mixing has been banned in Leicester since March.  The mixing is likely happening in environments with lots of people mixing aka schools, uni's, hospitality, work places.  By coincidence 3 of the 4 are protected activities, which explains the problem not going away, but meanwhile there is people still thinking masses of people rule breaking is the problem instead of the rules themselves.

 

I agree on hospitalisation graph, although I know it is getting worse in the hospitals at the moment from first hand sources.

Edited 17 November 2020 by Chrysalis

[Legend_in_blue]

 

Bullseye.

 

[Sampson]

54 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

Bullseye.

 

False positive *and* 50% of the country have already had it?

Pick one, mate. They cancel each other out. Either you think it's everywhere and everyone's had it. Or it's nowhere and these tests are faulty. It can't be both. It can be (and is) neither, but it can't be both.

12,000 people in hospital beds now in England in the UK, approaching the 16,000 at the peak. Virtually everyone in the country must have had it by now if 50% of us had it by the summer, surely?

New Jersey and New York have had almost 3 times as many deaths as the UK per capita and cases and deaths are rising again there as their 2nd wave is beginning, so even some back-of-fag-packet maths says we can't even be close to 50% herd immunity yet, given other places have already had it almost 3 times as bad and it's still going there.

Edited 17 November 2020 by Sampson

[simFox]

58 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Looking into it a bit more it seems this time blaby, and other county areas have the same issue as well, rapidly rising greater than national average, at least the city isnt alone this time.

 

Legend_in_blue

 

I just read that the professor in Leicester thinks household mixing is the prime driver, I would love for him to explain that, think about it, if friends are mixing, you can pass it on once, but then thats it, plus household mixing has been banned in Leicester since March.  The mixing is likely happening in environments with lots of people mixing aka schools, uni's, hospitality, work places.  By coincidence 3 of the 4 are protected activities, which explains the problem not going away, but meanwhile there is people still thinking masses of people rule breaking is the problem instead of the rules themselves.

 

I agree on hospitalisation graph, although I know it is getting worse in the hospitals at the moment from first hand sources.

It doesn't help with GP's not seeing anyone and referring every man and his dog to hospital (including 3yo's)

 

Save the NHS? We need saving from the NHS.

[st albans fox]

The increase in testing capacity means you can’t compare this wave with the first  - Germany recorded their highest daily death toll today at 355

today’s death toll in the USA is going to be bad - possibly the worst since back end July 

 

I’m wondering if the sight of the vaccine in the distance means that the populations across the globe are more able emotionally to deal with a big rise in deaths .......  assuming that their health services can stay upright ....

[Kingleicester]

I’d be surprised if the Leicester area, stays in the 2nd tier after national lockdown, from the sounds of it, Leicester is COVID capital of the East Midlands again!!! 

[Kopfkino]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

False positive *and* 50% of the country have already had it?

Pick one, mate. They cancel each other out. Either you think it's everywhere and everyone's had it. Or it's nowhere and these tests are faulty. It can't be both. It can be (and is) neither, but it can't be both.

12,000 people in hospital beds now in England in the UK, approaching the 16,000 at the peak. Virtually everyone in the country must have had it by now if 50% of us had it by the summer, surely?

New Jersey and New York have had almost 3 times as many deaths as the UK per capita and cases and deaths are rising again there as their 2nd wave is beginning, so even some back-of-fag-packet maths says we can't even be close to 50% herd immunity yet, given other places have already had it almost 3 times as bad and it's still going there.

Tbh it can be both. 50% could have had it by June and then in September it didn’t exist anymore so they were all false positives or something illiterate about dead virus particles. And then in October we started having false hospital admissions and now we’ve got all these false deaths. Idk if you noticed but you can be asked to have a test before you go into hospital for some treatment but they’re coming back false positive. The people then go in to have their hip done, becomes a hospital covid admission. Then, under instruction of Huw Edwards himself, doctors have to declare a proportion of those people dead so every night they look for some of them that have their eyes closed, declare them dead and ship them off to the mortuary. That’s the real crisis here, all the false cremations we’re doing just because the MSM own all the crematoriums. Think outside the box lad.

 

 

Look it’s the Steve Bannon strategy of ‘flooding the zone with shit’, rinse and repeat. People their reasons for lapping it up be that cos they love being contrarian, have an axe to grind with whoever, haven’t the cerebral processing power to do anything else, have a natural draw towards optimism or killing grannies, tHe EcOnOmY.
 

This one from Yeadon is both amusing and horrifying. Amusing because the people who gave us the literature that he refers to have said that people that interpret their work as he does are wrong, they say that even if their most optimistic speculations about T-cell cross immunity were true, it wouldn’t stop people getting the disease but would dampen the severity. Which immediately throws out any idea of 50% having had it by June, as does much of the other fag-packet maths you can do. But why it’s horrifying is that it would be great news if is true but any adult discussion is inhibited by such bad faith arguments

[WigstonWanderer]

6 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

Bullseye.

 

Perhaps I’m wrong here as I haven’t been following this exercise, but wasn’t the Liverpool flow test trial aimed at asymtomatics? If so you’d expect the positivity rate to be much lower than PCR testing aimed mostly at symptomatics.

[WigstonWanderer]

Pleased (and somewhat surprised) that South Australia have decided to go straight to a hard lockdown (tougher than Victoria at peak AFAICT) for 6 days to allow them to get on top of the outbreak there. This IMO is exactly how to handle outbreaks when there was previously no virus in the community. Get on top of it early and snuff it out quickly, ensuring that test/tracing systems can cope before opening up. Hopefully this will avoid the situation that arose in Victoria where they initially tried to avoid a hard lockdown and as a result ended up having to do so for 4 months.

 

They have a couple of advantages over Victoria.

 

a) They have the experience of Victoria as a reference.

 

b) A smaller population, a bit more than a quarter the size.

 

c) Having a Liberal state government means they won’t have the Liberal federal government constantly on their backs trying to undermine everything they do. The way Morrison and Freydenberg treated the Labor government in Victoria was quite shocking and highly irresponsible. They won’t do this with South Australia. If premier Dan Andrews had tried to impose such an early lockdown he would have been mercilessly slated. Note that in Australia, the Liberal party is equivalent to the Conservatives in the UK.

 

d) They are likely to get support from the state Labor opposition instead of the constant carping from the Liberal opposition that Dan Andrews had to endure in Victoria. 

 

Interestingly they have identified the source of the outbreak as a traveller returning from the UK (ffs). They seem to think that the strain of virus is more infectious than previously seen.

 

Is there anyone from SA on this forum? I’d be interested in your thoughts.

Edited 18 November 2020 by WigstonWanderer